I mean I'd have jumped off the Leaves bandwagon long before Vegas. Thoughts?
- neem55

I really wanted to see an expansion team win in their first year.

So far they've pretty much accomplished as much as the Canucks have in their history. (Too bad they've done the same to the Leafs in recent years )

No Gardiner gets salughtered by every line 1st line, 2nd line, 3rd line, 4th line.

And dont even get me started on Zaitsev who is a #8 d-man paid like a 2nd pairing one.
- classic321

I personally think Reilly and Gardiner will be fine as all-around d-men, they jsut need a shutdown guy in the top4 and Hainsey is too old to do it.

Yes it is. Especially for a dman. What I like about corsi and fenwick is that it takes total shots generated on the ice, not a person's total. Otherwise I agree it would be flawed, but you see they account for that. And reilly and Gardiner still had an awful 6 games there's just no getting around it.
- neem55

So does +/-.

I really wanted to see an expansion team win in their first year.

So far they've pretty much accomplished as much as the Canucks have in their history. (Too bad they've done the same to the Leafs in recent years )
- Aaron_85

I'm pretty glad they lost. I could see them missing the playoffs next year, after those pre-game charades I would really love this.

He's a #2. Were not going to be good for four years I would guess. He's 28. Might as well trade while he has value. Edler should have been traded years ago, value has declined. Trading one or the other would be a big step in actually committing to a rebuild.
- neem55

I thought the Canucks were re-tooling so not a real re-build? Honest question!

If a rebuild is the case then trade even more away! I don't know if Tanev gets a first round pick though.

I'm pretty glad they lost. I could see them missing the playoffs next year, after those pre-game charades I would really love this.
- neem55

Those seemed to drag on but of all places for a spectacle it had to be Vegas.

They could miss for sure next season. Glad Washington won. I took them in my office pool and it gave me a win!

I thought the Canucks were re-tooling so not a real re-build? Honest question!

If a rebuild is the case then trade even more away! I don't know if Tanev gets a first round pick though.
- Aaron_85

He definitely would fetch a 1st rounder.

The debate is where in the 1-31 range that would be.

I personally think Reilly and Gardiner will be fine as all-around d-men, they jsut need a shutdown guy in the top4 and Hainsey is too old to do it.
- neem55

Morgan Reilly is a smooth skating incredibly offensively gifted d-man.

But he cant play defense.
He sucks at shot suppression, loose puck recoveries etc etc.

He would have had better luck just laying down on the F'n blueline and hope to god they tripped over him than what ever the hell he was doing when opposing forwards come in on him.

This is what I don't understand about you advanced stats Kool-aid chuggers:

+/- is a terrible stat, but shots attempted vs. shots for is a valid stat for evaluating a defenceman?
- Atomic Wedgie

Well if you use those numbers for example, Toronto could have scored on one of those shots and not given up a goal on the 29 against. Would +1 have been an accurate representation of how he played? Nope.

So does +/-.
- Atomic Wedgie

Are you actually defending +/- as a stat? I actually had some respect for you/your arguments. I'm done wasting my time now, thanks for clarifying your aptitude.

Those seemed to drag on but of all places for a spectacle it had to be Vegas.

They could miss for sure next season. Glad Washington won. I took them in my office pool and it gave me a win!
- Aaron_85

I thought that everything they did was really cool - it was just waaaaaay too franking long.

Michael Buffer was franking awesome - but after that fight scene thingy, and the anthem? C'mon, drop the franking puck.

Are you actually defending +/- as a stat? I actually had some respect for you/your arguments. I'm done wasting my time now, thanks for clarifying your aptitude.
- neem55

I'm afraid the point has completely gone over your head.

I'm not defending +/- at all.

You've got a life ahead of you of wasting your time, son.

Morgan Reilly is a smooth skating incredibly offensively gifted d-man.

But he cant play defense.
He sucks at shot suppression, loose puck recoveries etc etc.

He would have had better luck just laying down on the F'n blueline and hope to god they tripped over him than what ever the hell he was doing when opposing forwards come in on him.
- classic321

I agree, his d-zone starts need to be reduced. Gardiner is better defensively than he was in that series IMO (and can get better).

I think that Canucksarmy forgets to actually watch games instead of just looking at a stats sheet.

I agree, his d-zone starts need to be reduced. Gardiner is better defensively than he was in that series IMO (and can get better).
- neem55

Wasn't Gardiner a -7 in the final game?

I'm afraid the point has completely gone over your head.

I'm not defending +/- at all.

You've got a life ahead of you of wasting your time, son.
- Atomic Wedgie

Only one of us is a Leaves fan there stud, enjoy that time

The other gets paid 6 figures and lives very well. So... have a good day

I agree, his d-zone starts need to be reduced. Gardiner is better defensively than he was in that series IMO (and can get better).
- neem55

Ummmmm...

Only one of us is a Leaves fan there stud, enjoy that time

The other gets paid 6 figures and lives very well. So... have a good day
- neem55

I'm going to assume you get paid in Pesos.

Ummmmm...
- Atomic Wedgie

I love how much Leaves homers have turned on Gardiner after that series. The worst fans
You wonder why Stamkos and Tavares say no thanks.

No Gardiner gets salughtered by every line 1st line, 2nd line, 3rd line, 4th line.

And dont even get me started on Zaitsev who is a #8 d-man paid like a 2nd pairing one.
- classic321

Such a delusional, self-entitled fanbase. Sad but cute.

I agree, his d-zone starts need to be reduced. Gardiner is better defensively than he was in that series IMO (and can get better).
- neem55

Gardiner is a prime example of the analytics not matching the eye test. He makes some brutal decisions that lead to scoring chances/goals against at times. I would call him a good puck mover, a guy that can create offense, but not someone you want out there against top lines.

I'm going to assume you get paid in Pesos.
- Atomic Wedgie

You assume a lot of stupid poop by the sounds or your terrible logic/arguments skippy.

I love how much Leaves homers have turned on Gardiner after that series. The worst fans
You wonder why Stamkos and Tavares say no thanks.
- neem55

Yes.

After that series.

But not until after the 3rd period of that 7th game.

Gardiner is a prime example of the analytics not matching the eye test. He makes some brutal decisions that lead to scoring chances/goals against at times. I would call him a good puck mover, a guy that can create offense, but not someone you want out there against top lines.
- Nucker101

He's just one of those guys (like Phaneuf or Edler) who makes big, very brutal and noticeable gaffs that people hang on to. Overall play is solid though

Gardiner is a prime example of the analytics not matching the eye test. He makes some brutal decisions that lead to scoring chances/goals against at times. I would call him a good puck mover, a guy that can create offense, but not someone you want out there against top lines.
- Nucker101

My theory on Gardiner is as he grew up playing hockey, he could skate 10X better than the kids he was playing against. As a result, he never had to learn what to do with the puck under pressure - he simply skated his way out of trouble.

Sadly, that doesn't work in the NHL.

The dude shows flashes of incredible talent - and then he has the most magnificent brain farts that you wonder how he even gets his equipment on by himself before games.

I'm now at peace with the fact that we will be seeing him in a Leafs uniform for the foreseeable future. As per above, he simply has too much raw talent for management to give up on him.

But I don't think he'll ever change.