If there's any truth to the Kessel crap then its because he's missing the attitude of "just play". Attitudes like that , if true, can effect a whole locker room negatively. Just shut the F up and play where the coach says and do try your best wherever that is. That is the mentality of a majority of hockey players. That is the mentality of a pro.

If this is true about Kessel, and I have my doubts that it is, then he can take a hike. Might never get a better return for him than this summer coming off a 92 point personal best year.

If there's any truth to the Kessel crap then its because he's missing the attitude of "just play". Attitudes like that , if true, can effect a whole locker room negatively. Just shut the F up and play where the coach says and do try your best wherever that is. That is the mentality of a majority of hockey players. That is the mentality of a pro.

If this is true about Kessel, and I have my doubts that it is, then he can take a hike. Might never get a better return for him than this summer coming off a 92 point personal best year.
- MattStrat

So Cole went. Reaves. Now maybe Kessel all in a season. Question is will there be another? (If it's true )

The "figuring out a goalie" has to be one of the dumbest cliches in hockey.
- Blackstrom2

Yup. I mean look, bad goaltending can absolutely cost you a series (Nashville this year) and great goaltending can save you a series, but when you're receiving "good enough to win" goaltending or slightly better and you lose, most of the time you lose because the other team was simply better.

I almost think it's unfair to the Caps to put this series on them "solving Fleury." The Caps are not winning this series because of poor or sub-par goaltending on behalf of Fleury. Despite how many goals he's allowed, he's been spectacular and as I've already repeated, Fleury has kept Vegas in games longer than they should have been.

Vegas is losing this series because the Caps are the SUPERIOR TEAM. They have "it" this year and they are playing like champs. Not to take away from Holtby, but he really hasn't been anything spectacular in this series, nor has he had to be. So for the caps, it isn't even a goaltending duel IMO. Holtby has been good when he's needed to be and that's you really ever need from a goalie.

The Caps are just the much much better team.

EDIT: Game 4 is a prime example of how the Caps have turned into a Championship team. Game 4 is exactly the kind of game, that in the past, they would have lost "it" and blown the series. The Caps instead turned it around and put the death grip on. Vegas came out strong in that game, but quickly played like a deflated team.

With Kessel I always believed that he was brought in for a 2-3 year run and wouldn't play out his contract. Not because he is a problem or he wouldn't be a good player at the end of it, but because rosters need to continually evolve if you want to keep winning.

I could definitely see the Pens making a move with Buffalo but it wont be Kessel going there. I don't think he would take that trade. ROR is awesome but something would have to give salary wise.

Agreed. Phil is fast enough to skate with Crosby, why doesn't he play with Crosby more? Phil can fill the net still, happy Phil, more points. Besides, isn't that the knock on him, love the scoring hate the attitude? Who would you trade Phil to and what would the return be?
- TaxMan22

Crosby plays better with guys who go to the net. Thats why he does so well with Jake and Hornquist. Kessel is a perimeter player, he is really good at it but that doesn't jive with Crosby's game.

With Kessel I always believed that he was brought in for a 2-3 year run and wouldn't play out his contract. Not because he is a problem or he wouldn't be a good player at the end of it, but because rosters need to continually evolve if you want to keep winning.

I could definitely see the Pens making a move with Buffalo but it wont be Kessel going there. I don't think he would take that trade. ROR is awesome but something would have to give salary wise.
- MacPatty

Hunwick going the other way would help things out.

I'd do this deal right now: Kessel/Hunwick for O'Reilly + Pick

I would generally agree with this, but its hard in Phil's case. I think Phil has to be veyr hard to work with. 3 Teams now have had problems in one way or another with Phil, Pittsburgh to a much lesser extent, but still, the problem is brewing. As a professional, you have to being willing to play with lesser talent for betterment of the team. Seriously, Sid had to play with Dominik Simon and ZAR for half of the year, adn you don't hear anything about him being disgruntled. Those 2 are not NHL talents adn if they are, they should not get anything above 4th line minutes.

Not to mention, we have won two Stanley Cups in a row. For the most part, the line up has been shuffled constantly but of all the players on the team, Phil playing with Geno has probably been the most consistant duo of the past 3 years. It really seems like HCMS does everything he can to find all the best combos. So to me, Phil is probably in the wrong.
- joecool2931

I can't get on board with this fallacy. There have been plenty of top level players who've been traded multiple times in their careers for various reasons. Also, to throw the Pens in as a team, to any extent, wanting to move him is putting the cart before the horse. I don't care what the media says because they've wavered so much in this area.

We heard about the issues between Kessel and Sully when things weren't going right and then after they win we were how either that was BS or they smoothed it out, and then as soon as the playoffs are over it's back to their issues?

I call shenanigans. Kessel isn't going anywhere and nor should he. Kessel will be worth every penny of that contract until it's fulfilled.

Plus, IF there is any truth to how upset Malkin was when they moved Neal and that he's upset Kessel wasn't on his line more, I highly doubt they're going to do it again.

Hunwick going the other way would help things out.

I'd do this deal right now: Kessel/Hunwick for O'Reilly + Pick
- Barnaby36

I don't see Phil lining up to go play in BUF...non-contender and pretty rabid fanbase. Plus I don't even know why BUF would part with ROR unless they wanted a futures package.

But yes, I'd take that deal and run..

If there's any truth to the Kessel crap then its because he's missing the attitude of "just play". Attitudes like that , if true, can effect a whole locker room negatively. Just shut the F up and play where the coach says and do try your best wherever that is. That is the mentality of a majority of hockey players. That is the mentality of a pro.

If this is true about Kessel, and I have my doubts that it is, then he can take a hike. Might never get a better return for him than this summer coming off a 92 point personal best year.
- MattStrat

No in this case I definitely get Phil's side. He's a top line caliber winger who Sullivan insists on playing on the third line with sub-optimal talent because HBK was really good two years ago. If Crosby or Malkin were put on the third line for "roster balance" and had a cow because they had to play with third line caliber players, we'd all understand. Obviously bringing in Brassard changes that, but Brassard didn't stay healthy long enough for them to form any chemistry.

This is simple. 3rd line Phil hasn't worked since 2016. Phil and Malkin have worked extremely well. If you're a square peg and the coach keeps trying to fit you into a round hole on and off for about a third of the regular season games and all of the playoffs, you're going to get disgruntled. Coaches aren't gods, and veteran star players are grown adults who are masters of their craft. When the coach is doing something objectively stupid and miss-managing you, you don't have to just sit there and take it. You're allowed to voice your opinion.

No in this case I definitely get Phil's side. He's a top line caliber winger who Sullivan insists on playing on the third line with sub-optimal talent because HBK was really good two years ago. If Crosby or Malkin were put on the third line for "roster balance" and had a cow because they had to play with third line caliber players, we'd all understand. Obviously bringing in Brassard changes that, but Brassard didn't stay healthy long enough for them to form any chemistry.

This is simple. 3rd line Phil hasn't worked since 2016. Phil and Malkin have worked extremely well. If you're a square peg and the coach keeps trying to fit you into a round hole on and off for about a third of the regular season games and all of the playoffs, you're going to get disgruntled. Coaches aren't gods, and veteran star players are grown adults who are masters of their craft. When the coach is doing something objectively stupid and miss-managing you, you don't have to just sit there and take it. You're allowed to voice your opinion.
- Victoro311

Some will debate this point. The stats nerds say that Malkin had a significant drop in fancy stats and real points when playing with Kessel.

So 81/71 combo may have benefitted Kessel but its more important to get the most of Geno.

Brassard is a great center and Kessel should be happy to play with him this upcoming season. He gets to play against other teams 3rd pair defenseman and has a center that is 2nd line caliber.

No in this case I definitely get Phil's side. He's a top line caliber winger who Sullivan insists on playing on the third line with sub-optimal talent because HBK was really good two years ago. If Crosby or Malkin were put on the third line for "roster balance" and had a cow because they had to play with third line caliber players, we'd all understand. Obviously bringing in Brassard changes that, but Brassard didn't stay healthy long enough for them to form any chemistry.

This is simple. 3rd line Phil hasn't worked since 2016. Phil and Malkin have worked extremely well. If you're a square peg and the coach keeps trying to fit you into a round hole on and off for about a third of the regular season games and all of the playoffs, you're going to get disgruntled. Coaches aren't gods, and veteran star players are grown adults who are masters of their craft. When the coach is doing something objectively stupid and miss-managing you, you don't have to just sit there and take it. You're allowed to voice your opinion.
- Victoro311

IMO, HBK was the 2nd line and Malkin had to play with inferior talent that run which he did and we never heard a complaint.

If Kessel plays with a healthy Brassard, you can argue he's playing with as good a linemate as Crosby or Malkin, at least it's close.

While I'll agree Kessel hasn't worked out as well as HBK, I'd also say he and Malkin together is not a no-brainer. They were negative as a combination in scoring chances, high danger chances, and goals for. Even their scoring rates were higher apart.

Malkin was clearly better in the 2nd half w/out Kessel scoring .71 more G/60 without him. Kessel was also .51 G/60 better without Malkin.

Everyone just remembers the pretty plays, OT heroics, and the PP, but Malkin and Kessel shouldn't be labeled an untouchable combo. Sully needs to do better manahing Phil, but I agree with him on that.

If we trade Kessel, I will cool substantially on Mike Sullivan. From JR's comments, the rift has largely formed from Phil not wanting to play on the third line, which to me is pretty (frank)ing understandable after HBK stopped being a thing.

First of all, Phil's unhappiness aside, if you're the head coach, you need to be adaptable and realize that third line Phil hasn't really worked in two years and that Malkin and Kessel are probably the best dynamic duo we have. Separating them really marginalizes Kessel.

Second of all, part of your job as a coach is employee management. This seems like such a stupid personal issue. While Phil is certainly not blameless in this scenario, coaches need to take the high road with star players to avoid disastrous trades. We will "lose" any Kessel because I just don't see us getting any package of current roster players that are more valuable to the team than Phil is. Most of the value in a Kessel trade will come in the form of futures, which won't help during the Crosby/Malkin Era.

Mike Sullivan needs to fix this.
- Victoro311

Sullivan didn't have a good year. In several areas he resembled Dan Bylsma....and that's obviously not a compliment. Lack of flexibility and strategic adjustments were big problems. He also had a couple of extremely limited players getting jerseys most nights....cough, cough Craig Adams.

I won't be happy if they trade Kessel, but I'm assuming they'll jump into to the FA market and I'll hold judgment until they get through that period.

Crosby plays better with guys who go to the net. Thats why he does so well with Jake and Hornquist. Kessel is a perimeter player, he is really good at it but that doesn't jive with Crosby's game.
- MacPatty

I'd say the best lines for Crosby and Malkin without checking were:

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Malkin-Hornqvist/Rust

That leaves out 2 of the team's more skilled forwards in Kessel and Sheary as well as Sprong.

You probably have to put one if those guys with Malkin since Sully likes to keep Kessel, Guentzel, Sheary, and Sprong all on seperate lines. Si maybe Kessel goes back there, I just wouldn't write it in ink.

No in this case I definitely get Phil's side. He's a top line caliber winger who Sullivan insists on playing on the third line with sub-optimal talent because HBK was really good two years ago. If Crosby or Malkin were put on the third line for "roster balance" and had a cow because they had to play with third line caliber players, we'd all understand. Obviously bringing in Brassard changes that, but Brassard didn't stay healthy long enough for them to form any chemistry.

This is simple. 3rd line Phil hasn't worked since 2016. Phil and Malkin have worked extremely well. If you're a square peg and the coach keeps trying to fit you into a round hole on and off for about a third of the regular season games and all of the playoffs, you're going to get disgruntled. Coaches aren't gods, and veteran star players are grown adults who are masters of their craft. When the coach is doing something objectively stupid and miss-managing you, you don't have to just sit there and take it. You're allowed to voice your opinion.
- Victoro311

Why not? Ultimately he's an employee, a very well compensated one at that, with a boss. You complain to your boss (or bosses) in other professions and you might not have a job much longer.

For the record I dont think any of this is true anyway. I'll put it in the same pile as Malkin wanting out every summer.

Also, want to add that 3rd line Phil worked quite well in 2018 with Sheahan before the Brassard trade. The 3rd line was tearing it up just before that trade.

Some will debate this point. The stats nerds say that Malkin had a significant drop in fancy stats and real points when playing with Kessel.

So 81/71 combo may have benefitted Kessel but its more important to get the most of Geno.

Brassard is a great center and Kessel should be happy to play with him this upcoming season. He gets to play against other teams 3rd pair defenseman and has a center that is 2nd line caliber.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I just believe running Kessel out there with Sheahan and Brassard had no chance of working in the Caps series. Zero chance. That's where my complaint comes from. When you watch period after period of Phil floundering with an injured Brassard and a limited Sheahan, you have to change that strategy and get him with Geno. I didn't understand why Hornqvist was dropped off the 1st line either. They were killing it and then Simon inexplicably gets that spot. That might be the single worst decision from Sullivan since he became our coach.

Interestingly, it doesn't sound like Brassard is thrilled with a 3rd line role either.

Why not? Ultimately he's an employee, a very well compensated one at that, with a boss. You complain to your boss (or bosses) in other professions and you might not have a job much longer.

For the record I dont think any of this is true anyway. I'll put it in the same pile as Malkin wanting out every summer.

Also, want to add that 3rd line Phil worked quite well in 2018 with Sheahan before the Brassard trade. The 3rd line was tearing it up just before that trade.
- MattStrat

Coach-Player isn't the same relationship as Boss-Employee. Technically, the GM is the player's boss as he has the hiring/firing power and cuts the checks, and the coach has the exact same boss.

Coach-Player is much more similar to a Father-Son relationship. There's an understanding of seniority and the expectation of respect, but parents can be (frank)ing stupid sometimes and children have every right to point that out when they become adults in their own right. If this was a youngster like Sprong or someone calling out Sullivan's decisions, then yeah, that would be like an eight year old talking back to his dad when he's told to eat his vegetables. But veteran star like Kessel challenging Sullivan is more like a a 30 year-old post-grad professional reaming out his dad for blowing family money on a penny stocks scam.

Why not? Ultimately he's an employee, a very well compensated one at that, with a boss. You complain to your boss (or bosses) in other professions and you might not have a job much longer.

For the record I dont think any of this is true anyway. I'll put it in the same pile as Malkin wanting out every summer.

Also, want to add that 3rd line Phil worked quite well in 2018 with Sheahan before the Brassard trade. The 3rd line was tearing it up just before that trade.
- MattStrat

When Bob Mckenzie said "Phil Kessel is eminently available"....he's available. It doesn't mean they will trade him, but if the right offer comes in....

Coach-Player isn't the same relationship as Boss-Employee. Technically, the GM is the player's boss as he has the hiring/firing power and cuts the checks, and the coach has the exact same boss.

Coach-Player is much more similar to a Father-Son relationship. There's an understanding of seniority and the expectation of respect, but parents can be (frank)ing stupid sometimes and children have every right to point that out when they become adults in their own right. If this was a youngster like Sprong or someone calling out Sullivan's decisions, then yeah, that would be like an eight year old talking back to his dad when he's told to eat his vegetables. But veteran star like Kessel challenging Sullivan is more like a a 30 year-old post-grad professional reaming out his dad for blowing family money on a penny stocks scam.
- Victoro311

I don't agree with this analogy at all having played my whole life. The coaches are the bench bosses, perhaps manager is a better title, and they are all adults, Sprong and Kessel, alike. Being in the league 10 more years doesnt give anyone the right to sook, be selfish and undermine their coach/manager/boss.

I just believe running Kessel out there with Sheahan and Brassard had no chance of working in the Caps series. Zero chance. That's where my complaint comes from. When you watch period after period of Phil floundering with an injured Brassard and a limited Sheahan, you have to change that strategy and get him with Geno. I didn't understand why Hornqvist was dropped off the 1st line either. They were killing it and then Simon inexplicably gets that spot. That might be the single worst decision from Sullivan since he became our coach.

Interestingly, it doesn't sound like Brassard is thrilled with a 3rd line role either.
- madmike71

Honestly, I don't think you can blame Brassard or Sheahan for Kessel not performing in the playoffs. Kessel did not play well, probably due to injury but you can't blame his linemates for how he did.

To me, the Pens biggest problem this year was being way too easy to play against. Crazy to say but I think the Pens REALLY missed Kunitz and Cullen. Not the biggest guys but they brought some tenacity to the lineup and always played hard on the puck.

Thats why I am all for moving on from Sheary, Kessel and maybe even Brassard for the right deals. Just didn't feel like the right mix of players this season and there is nothing wrong with shaking things up. Great time to sell high on Kessel.

Honestly, I don't think you can blame Brassard or Sheahan for Kessel not performing in the playoffs. Kessel did not play well, probably due to injury but you can't blame his linemates for how he did.
- MacPatty

I'm not blaming those guys. I'm just stating they weren't playing very well. Brassard was clearly still hampered by his injury and Sheahan is decent enough, but he wasn't playing very well.

If I'm the coach, I recognize it and I attempt to change things up by getting my best winger on a line with one of my best two centers. I think Sully got stubborn or maybe he didn't want to capitulate to Kessels demands. Whatever the reason, it was an obvious move to try to get some production out of players that weren't scoring.

Kessel should have been moved to Geno's line and Hornie should have been moved back to Sid's line.

I'm not blaming those guys. I'm just stating they weren't playing very well. Brassard was clearly still hampered by his injury and Sheahan is decent enough, but he wasn't playing very well.

If I'm the coach, I recognize it and I attempt to change things up by getting my best winger on a line with one of my best two centers. I think Sully got stubborn or maybe he didn't want to capitulate to Kessels demands. Whatever the reason, it was an obvious move to try to get some production out of players that weren't scoring.

Kessel should have been moved to Geno's line and Hornie should have been moved back to Sid's line.
- madmike71

I honestly think Kessel might have ended up just bringing down Geno's line. I just don't think you can really criticize Sullivans coaching. The Pens lost because Murray was not great, the D (Letang specifically) made way too many terrible plays, and a bevy of important players were injured.

IMO, HBK was the 2nd line and Malkin had to play with inferior talent that run which he did and we never heard a complaint.

If Kessel plays with a healthy Brassard, you can argue he's playing with as good a linemate as Crosby or Malkin, at least it's close.

While I'll agree Kessel hasn't worked out as well as HBK, I'd also say he and Malkin together is not a no-brainer. They were negative as a combination in scoring chances, high danger chances, and goals for. Even their scoring rates were higher apart.

Malkin was clearly better in the 2nd half w/out Kessel scoring .71 more G/60 without him. Kessel was also .51 G/60 better without Malkin.

Everyone just remembers the pretty plays, OT heroics, and the PP, but Malkin and Kessel shouldn't be labeled an untouchable combo. Sully needs to do better manahing Phil, but I agree with him on that.
- Tojo.

Your statistical analysis is a fair point, but I will push back saying that Malkin dealt with that for one 24 game playoff. Kessel has now been dealing with sub-optimal line situations on and off for two seasons. There's a difference in the amount of patience that goes into the two scenarios.

I will also say, that now that Sprong is getting rostered, Putting Phil on Geno's wing is a lot more of a no brainer than it used to be if Sprong doesn't come out the gate flying and claim a top 6 spot. Putting Sprong on the with a grinding center like Sheahan is not a good idea, so the only other option if he's not with Sid or Geno is to put him with Brassard.

I don't agree with this analogy at all having played my whole life. The coaches are the bench bosses, perhaps manager is a better title, and they are all adults, Sprong and Kessel, alike. Being in the league 10 more years doesnt give anyone the right to sook, be selfish and undermine their coach/manager/boss.
- MattStrat

When you're playing at that high of a level and its your livelihood, the dynamic changes. If Phil is publicly throwing tantrums, then I agree with you, a large part of the blame needs to be placed at his feet. But no reports have claimed that its becoming a distraction, they only say that the relationship has soured. If these conversations are happening behind closed doors aren't seeping into the locker room, then I see no issue on Phil's side.

Just because it leaked doesn't mean that Phil is being overt about it around his teammates. Sullivan has a duty to report up the goings ons in team dynamics and every time a piece of information is communicated, there is an opportunity for it to leak.

Your statistical analysis is a fair point, but I will push back saying that Malkin dealt with that for one 24 game playoff. Kessel has now been dealing with sub-optimal line situations on and off for two seasons. There's a difference in the amount of patience that goes into the two scenarios.

I will also say, that now that Sprong is getting rostered, Putting Phil on Geno's wing is a lot more of a no brainer than it used to be if Sprong doesn't come out the gate flying and claim a top 6 spot. Putting Sprong on the with a grinding center like Sheahan is not a good idea, so the only other option if he's not with Sid or Geno is to put him with Brassard.
- Victoro311

I actually think Sprong could make Kessel expendable in a way. The real loss with moving Kessel is now having a right shot sniper working on the off wing. Sprong is a fantastic shooter and I think it's possible he could replace him there (in due time) without losing much.