Would trading Brodie for the highest first rounder possible make sense if the flames are confident one of the D kids can step in ?
- Redmile247

I'd say no. Make sure those kids actually can step in. Don't want to find out that the kid isn't ready and now you've made your defense worse.

I'd say no. Make sure those kids actually can step in. Don't want to find out that the kid isn't ready and now you've made your defense worse.
- Lahey

If trading Brodie gets you a top 6 RW are you still waiting ?

It’s not like Brodie and Hamonic were lighting the world on fire

If trading Brodie gets you a top 6 RW are you still waiting ?

It’s not like Brodie and Hamonic were lighting the world on fire
- Redmile247

You'd know better than me, but can you really afford to move a guy that plays 23 minutes a night for you?

I mean yes he might not have had the results last year, but moving a guy with that kind of minutes could open up a huge hole. I'd also like my Oilers give a lot of guys the benefit of the doubt due to some coaching issues.

I'd sooner look at the free agent market, or if that isn't that great I'd look at a vet on another team that maybe is overpaid by a mil or two that you can get for cheap.

The other thing worth mentioning would be that it's not the first time a guy that went to a new team had a bad seasons. With regards to Hamonic.

The other thing worth mentioning would be that it's not the first time a guy that went to a new team had a bad seasons. With regards to Hamonic.
- Lahey

Unfortunately, he also ended his time on the Islanders with two bad seasons.

You'd know better than me, but can you really afford to move a guy that plays 23 minutes a night for you?

I mean yes he might not have had the results last year, but moving a guy with that kind of minutes could open up a huge hole. I'd also like my Oilers give a lot of guys the benefit of the doubt due to some coaching issues.

I'd sooner look at the free agent market, or if that isn't that great I'd look at a vet on another team that maybe is overpaid by a mil or two that you can get for cheap.

The other thing worth mentioning would be that it's not the first time a guy that went to a new team had a bad seasons. With regards to Hamonic.
- Lahey

Geez, why do you have to be so darn likeable & reasonable?

Prefer your posts to several Flames posters.

Anyway, curious. Does lets say Brodie & Kylington get the #10 & Pulji?

Reason I ask is then I would turn around & dangle Bennett & the #10 to move up & get Brady. Some here would think I am nuts as our window is open & we would get 2 players that arent established but our core is pretty darn young & Pulji plays the position we need & I think Brady is almost NHL ready now we are desperate for what the Chucky boys would bring to this team. Just spitballing while we twiddle our fingers.

Geez, why do you have to be so darn likeable & reasonable?

Prefer your posts to several Flames posters.

Anyway, curious. Does lets say Brodie & Kylington get the #10 & Pulji?

Reason I ask is then I would turn around & dangle Bennett & the #10 to move up & get Brady. Some here would think I am nuts as our window is open & we would get 2 players that arent established but our core is pretty darn young & Pulji plays the position we need & I think Brady is almost NHL ready now we are desperate for what the Chucky boys would bring to this team. Just spitballing while we twiddle our fingers.
- Kevin R

In all fairness that's like being the smart one in the special class

Geez, why do you have to be so darn likeable & reasonable?

Prefer your posts to several Flames posters.

Anyway, curious. Does lets say Brodie & Kylington get the #10 & Pulji?

Reason I ask is then I would turn around & dangle Bennett & the #10 to move up & get Brady. Some here would think I am nuts as our window is open & we would get 2 players that arent established but our core is pretty darn young & Pulji plays the position we need & I think Brady is almost NHL ready now we are desperate for what the Chucky boys would bring to this team. Just spitballing while we twiddle our fingers.
- Kevin R

I see what you're trying to do and I like it, but no way that happens. For a few reasons.

Geez, why do you have to be so darn likeable & reasonable?

Prefer your posts to several Flames posters.

Anyway, curious. Does lets say Brodie & Kylington get the #10 & Pulji?

Reason I ask is then I would turn around & dangle Bennett & the #10 to move up & get Brady. Some here would think I am nuts as our window is open & we would get 2 players that arent established but our core is pretty darn young & Pulji plays the position we need & I think Brady is almost NHL ready now we are desperate for what the Chucky boys would bring to this team. Just spitballing while we twiddle our fingers.
- Kevin R

If I'm giving up that much for a d-man I want someone who has toughness. I'm also not sure that I'm overly concerned about our d quite yet. For me if we can get an OEL or Karlsson then so be it. Otherwise I'm content on see what we can do with a healthy defense and an actual coach that can coach defense.

The other issue is giving up two of our better trade assets and not bringing in another winger is scary. Then again if we bring a d-man in I could see Klef moved, which could result in that winger.

Unfortunately, he also ended his time on the Islanders with two bad seasons.
- Hunkulese

Hamonic strikes me as a guy that if he's on a winning team you don't hear a lot of complaints. Kinda like Orpik. Who the hell wants to pay him 5.5mil? Yet somehow on WSH you aren't hearing any complaints.

Hamonic strikes me as a guy that if he's on a winning team you don't hear a lot of complaints. Kinda like Orpik. Who the hell wants to pay him 5.5mil? Yet somehow on WSH you aren't hearing any complaints.
- Lahey

I hi the issue is that maybe both Hamonic and Brodie can bring offense but neither are that good in their own zone.

Just not a good mix.

I see what you're trying to do and I like it, but no way that happens. For a few reasons.
- Ol_Boy_Wop

Yeah you are probably right. Biggest reason is I dont see doing any deal with the Oilers.

If I'm giving up that much for a d-man I want someone who has toughness. I'm also not sure that I'm overly concerned about our d quite yet. For me if we can get an OEL or Karlsson then so be it. Otherwise I'm content on see what we can do with a healthy defense and an actual coach that can coach defense.

The other issue is giving up two of our better trade assets and not bringing in another winger is scary. Then again if we bring a d-man in I could see Klef moved, which could result in that winger.
- Lahey

Those two wouldnt come close to getting an OEL or Karlsson. If you guys are going big after Carlson as a UFA, that is huge risk adding another big salary in the fold. Brodie has 2 more years for pretty cheap, he would play in your #2 or 3 position & already is used to logging 22-23 minutes a night. Kylington is like only 20, has two more years on his ELC & has played two years of AHL already. I would have to put that on par with Pulji & the #10 for Brodie would be about right.Just saying.

I hi the issue is that maybe both Hamonic and Brodie can bring offense but neither are that good in their own zone.

Just not a good mix.
- DuranDuran

The reason Hamonic has a job is his ability in his own zone. He's never been the guy who contributes a lot offensively.

Those two wouldnt come close to getting an OEL or Karlsson. If you guys are going big after Carlson as a UFA, that is huge risk adding another big salary in the fold. Brodie has 2 more years for pretty cheap, he would play in your #2 or 3 position & already is used to logging 22-23 minutes a night. Kylington is like only 20, has two more years on his ELC & has played two years of AHL already. I would have to put that on par with Pulji & the #10 for Brodie would be about right.Just saying.
- Kevin R

I know they won't get that and we'd have to be adding more, but if those two are involved that's the kind of guy I'm wanting back.

Could you guys live with a trade like:

Brodie
Brouwer
Kylington (or Fox)

for

Ottawa
1st Round Pick (#4)
Bobby Ryan
Gabriel Gagne

They get help on the Back end, a good prospect, to dump a bad contract. We get a shot at Baby Chucky in this years draft, and a couple RW guys to help out on that side of the ice.

Could you guys live with a trade like:

Brodie
Brouwer
Kylington (or Fox)

for

Ottawa
1st Round Pick (#4)
Bobby Ryan
Gabriel Gagne

They get help on the Back end, a good prospect, to dump a bad contract. We get a shot at Baby Chucky in this years draft, and a couple RW guys to help out on that side of the ice.
- buddy_doug

Awful trade for the Flames and it doesn't make much sense for the Ottawa either since they're really nowhere close to being a competitive team.

Nevermind the salaries, Brouwer is a more useful player than Ryan is. Factor in the salaries and you'll want to throw up a little bit when you think about how much money Ryan is still owed. Gagne is another meh prospect. The Flames are full up on meh prospects. Tkachuk is the most overated prospect in this year's draft and likely will be going back to school for at least another year.

Awful trade for the Flames and it doesn't make much sense for the Ottawa either since they're really nowhere close to being a competitive team.

Nevermind the salaries, Brouwer is a more useful player than Ryan is. Factor in the salaries and you'll want to throw up a little bit when you think about how much money Ryan is still owed. Gagne is another meh prospect. The Flames are full up on meh prospects. Tkachuk is the most overated prospect in this year's draft and likely will be going back to school for at least another year.
- Hunkulese

1. Brouwer is useless

2. Brady rocks. Played at over a point per game starting at game 13 of the season and did so with 2nd line minutes and powerplay. The common opinion has become that Brady is overrated. This opinion is based on people who don't watch college hockey. Actual scouts think Brady is going to be a force.

3. Ryan sucks, but he does go on hot streaks. They would have to retain further salary

1. Brouwer is useless

2. Brady rocks. Played at over a point per game starting at game 13 of the season and did so with 2nd line minutes and powerplay. The common opinion has become that Brady is overrated. This opinion is based on people who don't watch college hockey. Actual scouts think Brady is going to be a force.

3. Ryan sucks, but he does go on hot streaks. They would have to retain further salary
- fry

Brouwer brings toughness, leadership, and a willingness to stick up for his teammates. The Flames are already lacking in all three of those areas. He's also an above average penalty killer. He's the type of player most teams would like to have in their bottom six, he just makes too much money.

The biggest reason Brady is projected as a top five pick is because of his last name. I'm not saying he's a bum or anything, but he's benefiting from being a Tkachuk, being older than everyone else, and it being a weak draft year that's pretty much wide open.

Look at the easiest player to compare him to. Shane Bowers. A couple months apart in age and played for the same team last year. Bowers had a better year and watching them both play, it's not immediately obvious that one will be a much better player than the other in the NHL. Bowers was picked 28th last year. It's a weaker year this year, but Brady makes a lot more sense in the 10 to 20 range than the 3 to 5 range. The predraft scouting report reads a whole lot like it did for Virtanen or even Poirier. The way the game is trending, I don't know how you could rank Tkachuk above Quinn Hughes.

Ryan scored 11 goals last year and 13 the year before that. I'm going to throw up even more if you're telling me those numbers were inflated by a couple hot streaks. You thought it was fun complaining about Brouwer's contract, how about when Ryan is getting paid at least 3.6 million for the next 4 years to score 10 goals and not much else. You know who had more PP points than Ryan last year and the year before that? Everyone's favourite PP specialist Troy Brouwer.

The reason Hamonic has a job is his ability in his own zone. He's never been the guy who contributes a lot offensively.
- Hunkulese

Agreed. He had one decent offensive season, but has never been a major force offensively.

Brouwer brings toughness, leadership, and a willingness to stick up for his teammates. The Flames are already lacking in all three of those areas. He's also an above average penalty killer. He's the type of player most teams would like to have in their bottom six, he just makes too much money.

The biggest reason Brady is projected as a top five pick is because of his last name. I'm not saying he's a bum or anything, but he's benefiting from being a Tkachuk, being older than everyone else, and it being a weak draft year that's pretty much wide open.

Look at the easiest player to compare him to. Shane Bowers. A couple months apart in age and played for the same team last year. Bowers had a better year and watching them both play, it's not immediately obvious that one will be a much better player than the other in the NHL. Bowers was picked 28th last year. It's a weaker year this year, but Brady makes a lot more sense in the 10 to 20 range than the 3 to 5 range. The predraft scouting report reads a whole lot like it did for Virtanen or even Poirier. The way the game is trending, I don't know how you could rank Tkachuk above Quinn Hughes.

Ryan scored 11 goals last year and 13 the year before that. I'm going to throw up even more if you're telling me those numbers were inflated by a couple hot streaks. You thought it was fun complaining about Brouwer's contract, how about when Ryan is getting paid at least 3.6 million for the next 4 years to score 10 goals and not much else. You know who had more PP points than Ryan last year and the year before that? Everyone's favourite PP specialist Troy Brouwer.
- Hunkulese

I totally agree on the Bobby Ryan stuff, we don't need to bring that guy in here either, that's not a solution, that's just creating a different problem when it comes to cap management (even at 50% salary retained, just too much term for a guy who has regressed in each of the last 2 years)

That said, where was Brouwer's toughness last year? The guy was a literal waste of cap space and dollars. I was at the Vegas game when Brodie got STEAMROLLED by Ryan Reaves, and not one Flame stepped up. Hamonic gave him a little push, Hath kinda got in there, but it was pathetic. If that's the leadership that Gio and Brouwer are helping to instill, the Flames need a shift in perspective in that room or someone on the roster who isn't afraid to get a little greasy. Even Chucky isn't that guy - he will piss people off to no end, but he's an Avery in that respect, not a Wilson. I was disgusted by their lack of pushback after that hit. It was a 0-0 game at that point, and they walked out of there with tail between their legs, a 4-0 loss and a signal to the league that you can run our guys and there are no consequences.

Flames need a bonafide power forward/grinder who will stand up for his teammates and can still play at least a semi-regular and productive shift.

The ideal guy, and I've been preaching it for 2 years, is Wayne Simmonds. Barring that, get a Wilson/Wood/Reaves/Roussel/Abdelkader or put a guy like that on your back-end. An Oleksiak-type as a 6 dman or someone like that (functional, but not necessarily a game changer like a Buff)

Russell for Hamonic?

Keep in mind when I pitch a deal I'm pitching the main pieces and there could be some sweetners either way.

Awful trade for the Flames and it doesn't make much sense for the Ottawa either since they're really nowhere close to being a competitive team.

Nevermind the salaries, Brouwer is a more useful player than Ryan is. Factor in the salaries and you'll want to throw up a little bit when you think about how much money Ryan is still owed. Gagne is another meh prospect. The Flames are full up on meh prospects. Tkachuk is the most overated prospect in this year's draft and likely will be going back to school for at least another year.
- Hunkulese

My point on this trade for each team was for the Flames to get the #4 pick and for Ottawa to get cap relief to sign Karlsson plus boost their defensive core around Karlsson. I wouldn't trade a bucket of pucks for Ryan but if it could yield a true power forward to play in the top 6 for the next 10 years I would eat that salary and buy Ryan out next year. (I have not looked into the math of a Ryan buyout. If that is not possible then this trade would be too risky)

Brouwer had chance after chance last year to prove his worth and to me he did not. He was planted in the mid 6 and the bottom 6 for a good portion of the year and all year the Flames were looking for secondary scoring that just never showed up. Plus the whole year we were waiting for the truculence to show up that never came. The 2 main reasons I was stoked for Brouwer to be signed was to watch him push back against teams and to show championship leadership. For lacking in both of those reasons I would rather take a chance on a guy like Ryan and hope he has a bounce back to his career like Dustin Brown last year.

Brouwer brings toughness, leadership, and a willingness to stick up for his teammates. The Flames are already lacking in all three of those areas. He's also an above average penalty killer. He's the type of player most teams would like to have in their bottom six, he just makes too much money.

The biggest reason Brady is projected as a top five pick is because of his last name. I'm not saying he's a bum or anything, but he's benefiting from being a Tkachuk, being older than everyone else, and it being a weak draft year that's pretty much wide open.

Look at the easiest player to compare him to. Shane Bowers. A couple months apart in age and played for the same team last year. Bowers had a better year and watching them both play, it's not immediately obvious that one will be a much better player than the other in the NHL. Bowers was picked 28th last year. It's a weaker year this year, but Brady makes a lot more sense in the 10 to 20 range than the 3 to 5 range. The predraft scouting report reads a whole lot like it did for Virtanen or even Poirier. The way the game is trending, I don't know how you could rank Tkachuk above Quinn Hughes.

Ryan scored 11 goals last year and 13 the year before that. I'm going to throw up even more if you're telling me those numbers were inflated by a couple hot streaks. You thought it was fun complaining about Brouwer's contract, how about when Ryan is getting paid at least 3.6 million for the next 4 years to score 10 goals and not much else. You know who had more PP points than Ryan last year and the year before that? Everyone's favourite PP specialist Troy Brouwer.
- Hunkulese

Not sure I agree with the Bowers comparison. They play different positions, received different minutes last year, and play different styles. Bowers is pretty damn quick though, I’ll give him that.

People use Brady being older as a reason he’s overrated. He still dominated against older competition at WJHC-U20 and got over a point per game in the NCAA in the second half of the season. This also as a power forward who, by definition, should have a harder time producing results against more physically mature players.

Hah I agree Brouwer gets more for his contract. He’s the better asset of the two. That’s why I stated they would have to retain salary. At 5 mill it’s more manageable. Taking him off their books is part of the compensation package to pry the pick. Buy him out at 2.5x7 if it’s so bad. That equates to deducting this year’s cap increase.

That said, he’s still pretty good on the wall. Ryan-Janko-Ferly as a third line would be pretty interesting. Both wingers are great at winning pucks and Janko could work the slot looking for the shot.

I totally agree on the Bobby Ryan stuff, we don't need to bring that guy in here either, that's not a solution, that's just creating a different problem when it comes to cap management (even at 50% salary retained, just too much term for a guy who has regressed in each of the last 2 years)

That said, where was Brouwer's toughness last year? The guy was a literal waste of cap space and dollars. I was at the Vegas game when Brodie got STEAMROLLED by Ryan Reaves, and not one Flame stepped up. Hamonic gave him a little push, Hath kinda got in there, but it was pathetic. If that's the leadership that Gio and Brouwer are helping to instill, the Flames need a shift in perspective in that room or someone on the roster who isn't afraid to get a little greasy. Even Chucky isn't that guy - he will piss people off to no end, but he's an Avery in that respect, not a Wilson. I was disgusted by their lack of pushback after that hit. It was a 0-0 game at that point, and they walked out of there with tail between their legs, a 4-0 loss and a signal to the league that you can run our guys and there are no consequences.

Flames need a bonafide power forward/grinder who will stand up for his teammates and can still play at least a semi-regular and productive shift.

The ideal guy, and I've been preaching it for 2 years, is Wayne Simmonds. Barring that, get a Wilson/Wood/Reaves/Roussel/Abdelkader or put a guy like that on your back-end. An Oleksiak-type as a 6 dman or someone like that (functional, but not necessarily a game changer like a Buff)
- rmull905

There was also the game in Detroit. Mantha was a douche and Tkachuk was the only Flame that tried to push back.

Also makes me wonder what happened to Ferland. Hope Peters unleashes him.

Russell for Hamonic?

Keep in mind when I pitch a deal I'm pitching the main pieces and there could be some sweetners either way.
- Lahey

You better be sending a lot of sugar our way. Like enough to give us diabetes.