It appears German Rubtsov has recovered some of his first round pedigree after having a solid playoff run. At 6 foot and call it a playing weight of 190-195 at some point, would you make him part of a package to land a 3c?
- wcorvette

Sure. Rubstov and if we trade down in the first round, pick up another second and pair that late first with rubstov for bjugstad?

Sure. Rubstov and if we trade down in the first round, pick up another second and pair that late first with rubstov for bjugstad?
- Just5

You really think the Panthers would part with him? If they would, I think it would take more. I do believe the panthers need to make the playoffs this year. I think you would have to add a Good D prospect.

You really think the Panthers would part with him? If they would, I think it would take more. I do believe the panthers need to make the playoffs this year. I think you would have to add a Good D prospect.
- wcorvette

Who knows. They were willing to feed Vegas marchassault to take Reilly smith. I think Florida remains quiet for a little while here.

Smith Pelly and Beagle are objectively awful and hoping any of our prospects develop into similar players should be considered blasphemy of the highest order
- Mordecai

From Charlie O'Connor's latest piece in The Athletic, when evaluating potential free agent signees, he went out of his way to rip Beagle:

The “please stay far, far away” option: Jay Beagle

Every time I hear Beagle praised for a big shot block on the PK during the Stanley Cup Final, the unwelcome thought creeps into my head: Could he be the player that the Flyers believe will “save” their beleaguered shorthanded units?

Beagle does make sense as a plausible Hextall target because he checks off so many of the general manager’s boxes. He’s a center, he’s the primary penalty killing forward on the team that just won the East, he wins the vast majority of his faceoffs (58.5% this year), he’s a high-character player beloved in the Capitals’ locker room, and he scores just enough (30 points in 2016-17, 22 this season) to appear to be a low-end 3C option.

I can’t help but be reminded of Boyd Gordon when evaluating Beagle. Prior to being signed by Hextall for the 2016-17 season, Gordon’s play-driving numbers were poor (43.67% Corsi, -3.66% relative to his teammates), but they were waved away by some because of the center’s usage. That was fair to a point — Gordon took 359 defensive zone draws at 5-on-5 the previous year and only 24.58% of his non-neutral zone faceoffs came in the offensive zone — but even after statistical adjustments, Gordon’s numbers still didn’t look pretty. Flyers fans know what happened next — Gordon played just 13 games with the team and was largely ineffective in all of them.

Beagle certainly scores more than Gordon did, but his underlying metrics from 2017-18 are actually even worse than Gordon’s were prior to that signing. His 41.74% Corsi For Percentage comes with a -7.97% Relative mark, and that’s after employing Corsica’s standard adjustment. His results by xG are just as poor (41.32%, -6.64% Rel). Beagle was absolutely utilized in a defense-first role, as his 453 defensive zone draws at 5v5 prove. But not only was his usage in line with that of Gordon’s in his pre-Philadelphia year, Beagle’s territorial performance in those defensive minutes was so poor it outweighs the impact of that usage. At some point, you have to get the puck out of your own zone and create something offensively. When Beagle was on the ice, the Capitals rarely did so.

There aren’t many plausible center options out there that wouldn’t be clear statistical upgrades on what Valtteri Filppula provided the Flyers in 2017-18, but Beagle qualifies. Stay far, far away.

If you're an offense-first player, like Kupari, the thought you don't process the play well with the puck and have bad tunnel vision and are mistake prone and typically play at one speed (to be specific) doesn't make me encouraged you'll "figure it out." His appeal is his skating and skill and offense, and I don't think he's as good an offensive player as his offensive skills because of it. He just lacks awareness out there. I don't know if you've watched him, but it's what I saw every time practically. He's not a unique case. I view hockey sense as just an innate intellect and awareness on the ice. I don't think it improves. Every player is improving and maturing their game at the same rate as you anyway. As I said, maturing your game and being an innately smarter player are not the same thing to me. I think Kupari tends towards poor; if you want to bank on significant (not even minor) improvement.....

I don't know what recent players you're talking about. Names would help. I may not have knocked them, so I can't say. What you consider improving could just be a bad evaluation. As for Voracek, it's hard to not acknowledge he can force plays or make gaffes, but he's not dumb. His ability to process play and weave and create and utilize space as an elite playmaker......you can't be dumb and do that. His tools are elite; his hockey sense is clearly above-average at the NHL level or he wouldn't be doing what he does. It's certainly not top tier or he'd be a consistent top 10 winger. Veleno, a player with not dissimilar tools, wishes he had Voracek's hockey sense.
- Mononoke

I seent 3-4 ish games of his and a couple snippets. Pretty much entirely WJC and Liiga. I wasn’t blown away at all but I am intrigued by the offensive upside. I was never blown away by TT either.

IMO there is some element of coaching involved with hockey sense. Obviously guys can just have it and I prefer it over raw talent. It is just interesting to me. Situationally dependent because guys take to coaching styles differently.

From Charlie O'Connor's latest piece in The Athletic, when evaluating potential free agent signees, he went out of his way to rip Beagle:
- johndewar

I happen to believe Beagle is better than given credit for. I don’t think he is Boyd Gordon (though the fancies bear a resemblance. I do prefer they don’t sign him though and wish they weren’t looking for someone like that. He’s good defensively but too often plays defensively. I like his size and speed, but his signing will never be worth it. Weise.0

I happen to believe Beagle is better than given credit for. I don’t think he is Boyd Gordon (though the fancies bear a resemblance. I do prefer they don’t sign him though and wish they weren’t looking for someone like that. He’s good defensively but too often plays defensively. I like his size and speed, but his signing will never be worth it. Weise.0
- YuenglingJagr

I guess I have a hard time believing that the Flyers can't fill that role from within.

There is really no one in the organization capable of centering a 4th line?

Now I’m really concerned. Beagle sounds like the perfect player for Hakstol and Hextall to wax poetic about it. Respected veteran with sand paper to their game that can chip in a goal here and there. I’m salivating at the thought.

Remember when Holmgren made the awful Scottie Upshall deal and said the fans would love him? I have to admit any guy that can say that company line with a straight face earns their paycheck and then some. No wonder he got promoted!

I guess I have a hard time believing that the Flyers can't fill that role from within.

There is really no one in the organization capable of centering a 4th line?
- johndewar

They aren’t going to just throw in a kid so they can fill a role from inside the organization. Successful franchises don’t do that. And it’ll ruin the kid. The fourth line role is super important and plays a key role in the success of a team.

Listen, the 4th line role isn’t going to make or break the Flyers team next year, so move on and find a new slant.

It’s time to get kovalchuk. 3 years 17.5 mil. Sign me up

It’s time to get kovalchuk. 3 years 17.5 mil. Sign me up
- Just5

At that term, I'm actually not against it. But I think some desperate team will offer him more.

Flyers really need a big boost at LW. And even if we end up drafting one in this draft it's going to be some time before they're up contributing. I've been trying to think of some sort of trade that lands us a youngish LW but it's either going to be really costly or its going to rely on us to take a guy with upside who has struggled a bit(someone like Domi comes to mind in that instance)

They aren’t going to just throw in a kid so they can fill a role from inside the organization. Successful franchises don’t do that. And it’ll ruin the kid. The fourth line role is super important and plays a key role in the success of a team.

Listen, the 4th line role isn’t going to make or break the Flyers team next year, so move on and find a new slant.
- StepfordSam

After reading that piece I referenced earlier from Charlie at The Athletic, I looked at the list of free agents he listed and just thought that there really wasn't anything all that special out there (John Tavares excluded, obvs) such that I wanted to give even a Dale Weise contract out for.

I happen to believe Beagle is better than given credit for. I don’t think he is Boyd Gordon (though the fancies bear a resemblance. I do prefer they don’t sign him though and wish they weren’t looking for someone like that. He’s good defensively but too often plays defensively. I like his size and speed, but his signing will never be worth it. Weise.0
- YuenglingJagr

you've betrayed me for the last time

I’d take either one of the Finns in a heartbeat at 14 and try to nab one of the second tier of defenseman like Sandin or Merkeley. Make it happen Hextall!

From Charlie O'Connor's latest piece in The Athletic, when evaluating potential free agent signees, he went out of his way to rip Beagle:
- johndewar

Any analysis of a player that is analytic based is a poor one. Beagle is a solid role player.

you've betrayed me for the last time
- Mordecai

forgive us

F E L L A S

F E L L A S
- Giroux_Is_God

- Mordecai

Cavs getting run out of the building tonight. Makes me want to break poop.

Any analysis of a player that is analytic based is a poor one. Beagle is a solid role player.
- MJL

How much are you willing to pay Jay Beagle to not drive play?

I'd rather have a young kid do that role than have a UFA fail at it.

At that term, I'm actually not against it. But I think some desperate team will offer him more.

Flyers really need a big boost at LW. And even if we end up drafting one in this draft it's going to be some time before they're up contributing. I've been trying to think of some sort of trade that lands us a youngish LW but it's either going to be really costly or its going to rely on us to take a guy with upside who has struggled a bit(someone like Domi comes to mind in that instance)
- hereticpride

Yes! That makes two interested in Domi (if the price is right). Worth kick tires for sure. Young, fast, a position of need.

How much are you willing to pay Jay Beagle to not drive play?

I'd rather have a young kid do that role than have a UFA fail at it.
- johndewar

Whatever the Flyers pay him is the right amount.

How much are you willing to pay Jay Beagle to not drive play?

I'd rather have a young kid do that role than have a UFA fail at it.
- johndewar

Ah the old drive play cliche! Do you know how many players the Flyers had on their team last season that " drive play"? LOL

If a young kid can come in and take heavy d zone starts, defensive face offs, help with the PK, while chipping in points in limited ice time, I'm all for it! Tell me who that player is?

As with any UFA, it's all about term and cost. I think Beagle is a solid role player but not a player I'd want to sign to a deal similar to what Weise got if that's what it will take.

I actually think the Flyers need is for a 3rd line center, not a 4th line center. Beagle is not a 3rd line center, and Laughton is fine as a 4th line center.

Ah the old drive play cliche! Do you know how many players the Flyers had on their team last season that " drive play"? LOL

If a young kid can come in and take heavy d zone starts, defensive face offs, help with the PK, while chipping in points in limited ice time, I'm all for it! Tell me who that player is?

As with any UFA, it's all about term and cost. I think Beagle is a solid role player but not a player I'd want to sign to a deal similar to what Weise got if that's what it will take.

I actually think the Flyers need is for a 3rd line center, not a 4th line center. Beagle is not a 3rd line center, and Laughton is fine as a 4th line center.
- MJL

I like Beagle too but i feel like this is the offseason he cashes in on something bigger then people expect. More then i would want.

I wouldn't mind Antione Russel in FA if term and cost are good because he is a solid PK guy and has decent wheels.

In my opinion i don't think Spezza would be a bad idea if he gets bought out to be your 3rd line center. If you can get him on a 1 year deal. Again though I would only look there if they didn't think they had an internal option or get a youngish NHL center in a trade.