Malkin loves Garth so much he never told him about Lou. Garth is done and it’s Lou’s show now and I love it. Should be a great offseason instead of the snooze fest Gartn gave us for years.
- ses111

As somebody who wants Garth gone the GM doesn't have to be told EVERYTHING ownership is doing.

Hope so
- Vukota

Yep! Can only be better than the failure that is Garth Vukota.

Someone explain to me how removing Snow & Weight from the equation hurts the chances of retaining JT? You hear about how JT is really close with both of those guys and he likes playing for them. If that was the case wouldn't he have signed by now? He hasn't signed because he is sick of playing for a team going nowhere. Malkin finally realizes JT might walk because of this so he brings in Lou. JT wants to win more then wanting Snow & Weight to stay and that's why he has one foot out the door and rightfully so. Lou then goes and meets with JT while Snow and Weight are left in the dark. From all accounts JT was happy with the move and even talked with Lou.

So again tell me why its important to keep these two to help JT stay? I know at the end of the day Snow might stay on because all you hear is how close he and Lou are but its business and obviously Lou knows how to separate the two because meeting with JT behind the back of Snow is cold blooded and not something so called good friends would do to each other, but from a business stand point it was the right move and that's why Lou is Lou.
- Vukota

Well, let's just look at HOW many teams fire staff (GM/coach) when their top player is about to be a free agent. I can't recall one off the bat, can you? I mean star player here.

Weight has been working with team, besides played with team, for a while now. Garth drafted JT. And JT is a loyal guy. And I'm not the only one that says this... this has been also shared by TSN and other folks too.

So, here is a guy who can go anywhere he wants... and you want to fire staff and start from scratch IF you feel you must keep JT at all costs???

I know fans prefer this, I get it. BUT now add this complex situation to the equation.

Also... if Snow was a goner... wouldn't have he just been fired on day 1. Why prolong it? Lou could easily upheave and deal with it as Lou always does.

Also, and Elliotte Friedman mentioned this... does Malkin WANT Snow fired when he might have to eat not only a buy-out of the contract... but penalties as well. (he called it: "poison pill")

So seems to be there are a lot of complex and overlapping issues here that don't make it very easy to just can him outright. Now we can also add Lou's own words in the interviews... "evaluation".

So this also gives a sense that he must look over items and correct what is wrong. Now fans THINK they know what is wrong. WRITERS do too. What will Lou think, and then subsequently, do? Any $20 million or so buyout (assume Snow gets $3 mill a year, plus penalty that equals $5 mill (and he has 5+ more years btw)... that is $20 million to buy him out.

It doesn't matter what Lou does or thinks, he can't just boot Snow without Malkin being willing to pay that out. Malkin controls the wallet.

If JT resigns, in that ignorant vacuum everyone will act like it was because of Lou, btw. But, for a guy who DID NOT want to be dealt, seems to me that he was just waiting to see what happens and take his time (prob at agents behest, who is an old hand at these things).

JT's closest on-team friends are Clutterbuck and Josh Bailey. Notice those longterm deals.

JT is out with Clutter all the time.

And last spring, JT himself told people around him he was moving from Manhasset to Garden City so he could be closer to Belmont.

Sure... things can change. But seems to me far more likely he remains, and whatever fans personal narratives are will skew some of those items to fit a framework... but doesn't seem like he is a goner to me. Even before Lou.

I think Malkin not only broadsided hockey operations, notice Ledecky hasn't been mentioned at all.

I think Malkin not only broadsided hockey operations, notice Ledecky hasn't been mentioned at all.
- B.D. Gallof

At the dentist getting his teeth fix, cant talk currently thats why MIA ....

Well, let's just look at HOW many teams fire staff (GM/coach) when their top player is about to be a free agent. I can't recall one off the bat, can you? I mean star player here.

Weight has been working with team, besides played with team, for a while now. Garth drafted JT. And JT is a loyal guy. And I'm not the only one that says this... this has been also shared by TSN and other folks too.

So, here is a guy who can go anywhere he wants... and you want to fire staff and start from scratch IF you feel you must keep JT at all costs???

I know fans prefer this, I get it. BUT now add this complex situation to the equation.

Also... if Snow was a goner... wouldn't have he just been fired on day 1. Why prolong it? Lou could easily upheave and deal with it as Lou always does.

Also, and Elliotte Friedman mentioned this... does Malkin WANT Snow fired when he might have to eat not only a buy-out of the contract... but penalties as well. (he called it: "poison pill")

So seems to be there are a lot of complex and overlapping issues here that don't make it very easy to just can him outright. Now we can also add Lou's own words in the interviews... "evaluation".

So this also gives a sense that he must look over items and correct what is wrong. Now fans THINK they know what is wrong. WRITERS do too. What will Lou think, and then subsequently, do? Any $20 million or so buyout (assume Snow gets $3 mill a year, plus penalty that equals $5 mill (and he has 5+ more years btw)... that is $20 million to buy him out.

It doesn't matter what Lou does or thinks, he can't just boot Snow without Malkin being willing to pay that out. Malkin controls the wallet.

If JT resigns, in that ignorant vacuum everyone will act like it was because of Lou, btw. But, for a guy who DID NOT want to be dealt, seems to me that he was just waiting to see what happens and take his time (prob at agents behest, who is an old hand at these things).

JT's closest on-team friends are Clutterbuck and Josh Bailey. Notice those longterm deals.

JT is out with Clutter all the time.

And last spring, JT himself told people around him he was moving from Manhasset to Garden City so he could be closer to Belmont.

Sure... things can change. But seems to me far more likely he remains, and whatever fans personal narratives are will skew some of those items to fit a framework... but doesn't seem like he is a goner to me. Even before Lou.
- B.D. Gallof

"ell, let's just look at HOW many teams fire staff (GM/coach) when their top player is about to be a free agent. I can't recall one off the bat, can you? I mean star player here. "

1. How many teams keep their shatbag GM and his entire buddy system hires together for 12 years with little to no success? So right off the bat you can't compare them to any other normal functioning NHL franchise because they aren't and haven't been one in a long time.

"Weight has been working with team, besides played with team, for a while now. Garth drafted JT. And JT is a loyal guy. And I'm not the only one that says this... this has been also shared by TSN and other folks too"

2. So because Weight played with the team and is close with JT he should stay on as coach even though he was exposed as a terrible coach last year? No doubt JT is loyal and that's the only thing keeping the isles in this game.

"Also... if Snow was a goner... wouldn't have he just been fired on day 1. Why prolong it? Lou could easily upheave and deal with it as Lou always does.

Also, and Elliotte Friedman mentioned this... does Malkin WANT Snow fired when he might have to eat not only a buy-out of the contract... but penalties as well. (he called it: "poison pill")

So seems to be there are a lot of complex and overlapping issues here that don't make it very easy to just can him outright. Now we can also add Lou's own words in the interviews... "evaluation".


3. No doubt its a complex situation but at the same time in your own words Lou will be evaluating and even said that in his presser so I don't think anybody expected anybody to be fired in the first week or so especially after Lou basically came out and said that. Plus we all know Lou is now calling the shots no matter how much you try to cover yourself with your prediction on that.


"JT's closest on-team friends are Clutterbuck and Josh Bailey. Notice those longterm deals.

JT is out with Clutter all the time"

4. That's the problem with Snow and this team for how long now? You don't hand out bad contracts just to keep one player happy even if he is the best player on the team. How do you not see that? That's the shat that has to stop and when you have a insecure GM in over his head this is what you have to deal with. Hiring yes sir guys who have no business in their roles Example Eric Cairns!!! So if Lou some how gets out of the one of the worst contracts on the team in Clutterbuck its gonna effect if JT stays? Nonsense. The guys wants to win and if that is a reason for him to think about leaving.. See ya!!

whatever fans personal narratives are will skew some of those items to fit a framework

5. You would know better then anybody on that one pal

"ell, let's just look at HOW many teams fire staff (GM/coach) when their top player is about to be a free agent. I can't recall one off the bat, can you? I mean star player here. "

1. How many teams keep their shatbag GM and his entire buddy system hires together for 12 years with little to no success? So right off the bat you can't compare them to any other normal functioning NHL franchise because they aren't and haven't been one in a long time.

"Weight has been working with team, besides played with team, for a while now. Garth drafted JT. And JT is a loyal guy. And I'm not the only one that says this... this has been also shared by TSN and other folks too"

2. So because Weight played with the team and is close with JT he should stay on as coach even though he was exposed as a terrible coach last year? No doubt JT is loyal and that's the only thing keeping the isles in this game.

"Also... if Snow was a goner... wouldn't have he just been fired on day 1. Why prolong it? Lou could easily upheave and deal with it as Lou always does.

Also, and Elliotte Friedman mentioned this... does Malkin WANT Snow fired when he might have to eat not only a buy-out of the contract... but penalties as well. (he called it: "poison pill")

So seems to be there are a lot of complex and overlapping issues here that don't make it very easy to just can him outright. Now we can also add Lou's own words in the interviews... "evaluation".


3. No doubt its a complex situation but at the same time in your own words Lou will be evaluating and even said that in his presser so I don't think anybody expected anybody to be fired in the first week or so especially after Lou basically came out and said that. Plus we all know Lou is now calling the shots no matter how much you try to cover yourself with your prediction on that.


"JT's closest on-team friends are Clutterbuck and Josh Bailey. Notice those longterm deals.

JT is out with Clutter all the time"

4. That's the problem with Snow and this team for how long now? You don't hand out bad contracts just to keep one player happy even if he is the best player on the team. How do you not see that? That's the shat that has to stop and when you have a insecure GM in over his head this is what you have to deal with. Hiring yes sir guys who have no business in their roles Example Eric Cairns!!! So if Lou some how gets out of the one of the worst contracts on the team in Clutterbuck its gonna effect if JT stays? Nonsense. The guys wants to win and if that is a reason for him to think about leaving.. See ya!!

whatever fans personal narratives are will skew some of those items to fit a framework

5. You would know better then anybody on that one pal


- Vukota

This thread was circling the drain now look at our new blogger.

"ell, let's just look at HOW many teams fire staff (GM/coach) when their top player is about to be a free agent. I can't recall one off the bat, can you? I mean star player here. "

1. How many teams keep their shatbag GM and his entire buddy system hires together for 12 years with little to no success? So right off the bat you can't compare them to any other normal functioning NHL franchise because they aren't and haven't been one in a long time.

"Weight has been working with team, besides played with team, for a while now. Garth drafted JT. And JT is a loyal guy. And I'm not the only one that says this... this has been also shared by TSN and other folks too"

2. So because Weight played with the team and is close with JT he should stay on as coach even though he was exposed as a terrible coach last year? No doubt JT is loyal and that's the only thing keeping the isles in this game.

"Also... if Snow was a goner... wouldn't have he just been fired on day 1. Why prolong it? Lou could easily upheave and deal with it as Lou always does.

Also, and Elliotte Friedman mentioned this... does Malkin WANT Snow fired when he might have to eat not only a buy-out of the contract... but penalties as well. (he called it: "poison pill")

So seems to be there are a lot of complex and overlapping issues here that don't make it very easy to just can him outright. Now we can also add Lou's own words in the interviews... "evaluation".


3. No doubt its a complex situation but at the same time in your own words Lou will be evaluating and even said that in his presser so I don't think anybody expected anybody to be fired in the first week or so especially after Lou basically came out and said that. Plus we all know Lou is now calling the shots no matter how much you try to cover yourself with your prediction on that.


"JT's closest on-team friends are Clutterbuck and Josh Bailey. Notice those longterm deals.

JT is out with Clutter all the time"

4. That's the problem with Snow and this team for how long now? You don't hand out bad contracts just to keep one player happy even if he is the best player on the team. How do you not see that? That's the shat that has to stop and when you have a insecure GM in over his head this is what you have to deal with. Hiring yes sir guys who have no business in their roles Example Eric Cairns!!! So if Lou some how gets out of the one of the worst contracts on the team in Clutterbuck its gonna effect if JT stays? Nonsense. The guys wants to win and if that is a reason for him to think about leaving.. See ya!!

whatever fans personal narratives are will skew some of those items to fit a framework

5. You would know better then anybody on that one pal


- Vukota

related to #5: I'm giving an overall scope. Sorry if that came across as "you" or "you fan". But I've found that emotion tends to provide the desired result, so there is an observation that many tend to conform/band/ or shape observations here to fit that a bit. Conversely, when given something from someone when I buy-in myself, I am probably a victim of letting that shape too much of my view of items and perhaps, of fans overall.


Don't disagree with take on Cairns. Player development seems the biggest issue and items for Lou to address and fix.

Here is a question:

On teams with Team Presidents... even if they "call shots" there is also delegation.

Does Glen Sather CALL THE SHOTS? What does "call the shots" even mean??? Did Shanahan? Then why are fans so enamored with Lou from his Toronto work. Based on the dismissal, it sounds like Team Presidents DO everything based on this. They don't. If you are citing they are in-charge, sure. Of course.

There seems to be a hope vs hype on what Lou will do and that he will act like GM and overule all items that Garth does. Seems to me a lot of hope/hype because there is not fan trust in Snow.

But that doesn't mean it is the case.

Lou has just worked with Shanahan for a few years now, and now he is Shanahan's role. So... despite this "Lou will be Lou" motif going on... I think we could say he also knows how the framework works from TOR as well. Perhaps the evaluation is how much overlap and overrule he needs to do in what areas?

I don't care of Snow is out or in. But what seems to be more interesting is the reaction from people when you put forth the very simple (and reflective of other organizations set-ups, btw) where Garth is allowed to still be... well, GM.

I think the reaction from fans will be angry the more and more the Hype/Hope wrapping on Lou and how he runs as Team President the more they see things more independent of this assumption.

Welcome back B.D., old school HB crew here remembers "the good ol days" sibling rivalry blogs.

I just spent the weekend with Scott over at Sesame Place.

He is living the married life now and has a one-year-old.

And I have a 9 and 7-year-old... all born after my original run.

Time flies.
- B.D. Gallof

Man does time fly, 2 weeks before I joined here I had my first daughter who will be 10 soon. I was sleep deprived and was lurking on this site for awhile without posting and decided to join. 10 years later almost now, crazy.

Welcome back B.D., old school HB crew here remembers "the good ol days" sibling rivalry blogs.
- B2B76

Thanks, man! Great to see some of the old crew. You and the rest of the fellas don't be strangers.


I'll have to talk to him and put something together. He lives in NJ now, got married, and has a one-year-old girl.

Man does time fly, 2 weeks before I joined here I had my first daughter who will be 10 soon. I was sleep deprived and was lurking on this site for awhile without posting and decided to join. 10 years later almost now, crazy.
- B2B76

I know. Nuts how much time has gone by.

You're out of your mind if you don't think JT is close to walking. If it was just about money he would have signed the 8 yr deal already. It's not just about money with this guy and its not just about being buddies with Snow & Weight. The guy wants to win. I don't think he wants to leave he just looking for them to do something to help him win and up until getting Lou in here they haven't done shat
- Vukota

I think a major factor that’s been the isles Achilles heel is their inability to go out and get a top goalie......a franchise goalie. I’m sure Lou assured 91 that he would do that. You can’t go anywhere in this league without a top goalie. Perhaps Cory Schneider becomes available in NJ with the emergence of Kinkade?

related to #5: I'm giving an overall scope. Sorry if that came across as "you" or "you fan". But I've found that emotion tends to provide the desired result, so there is an observation that many tend to conform/band/ or shape observations here to fit that a bit. Conversely, when given something from someone when I buy-in myself, I am probably a victim of letting that shape too much of my view of items and perhaps, of fans overall.


Don't disagree with take on Cairns. Player development seems the biggest issue and items for Lou to address and fix.

Here is a question:

On teams with Team Presidents... even if they "call shots" there is also delegation.

Does Glen Sather CALL THE SHOTS? What does "call the shots" even mean??? Did Shanahan? Then why are fans so enamored with Lou from his Toronto work. Based on the dismissal, it sounds like Team Presidents DO everything based on this. They don't. If you are citing they are in-charge, sure. Of course.

There seems to be a hope vs hype on what Lou will do and that he will act like GM and overule all items that Garth does. Seems to me a lot of hope/hype because there is not fan trust in Snow.

But that doesn't mean it is the case.

Lou has just worked with Shanahan for a few years now, and now he is Shanahan's role. So... despite this "Lou will be Lou" motif going on... I think we could say he also knows how the framework works from TOR as well. Perhaps the evaluation is how much overlap and overrule he needs to do in what areas?

I don't care of Snow is out or in. But what seems to be more interesting is the reaction from people when you put forth the very simple (and reflective of other organizations set-ups, btw) where Garth is allowed to still be... well, GM.

I think the reaction from fans will be angry the more and more the Hype/Hope wrapping on Lou and how he runs as Team President the more they see things more independent of this assumption.
- B.D. Gallof

Would you say the Owners have gotten the message from the fans that enough is enough and since Lou is 75 who will be groomed to take over? His son Chris?

Would you say the Owners have gotten the message from the fans that enough is enough and since Lou is 75 who will be groomed to take over? His son Chris?
- Vukota

That IS possible down the line. Chris was only an assistant GM this year. It will take years to groom him. This is a guy who was until recently just working with AHL side of biz.

Malkin definitely addressed fans in where ticket sales are involved. That's where they can see the effect and care. It IS a business. And with Belmont coming up they know the team on uptick and fans onboard will be their lifeblood.

oh

Thanks, man! Great to see some of the old crew. You and the rest of the fellas don't be strangers.


I'll have to talk to him and put something together. He lives in NJ now, got married, and has a one-year-old girl.
- B.D. Gallof

Well I've been a stranger in general, even on the Rangers thread. I came back a few days ago after being off here for 3/4 months. Always like talking with (MOST) you guys.

You're out of your mind if you don't think JT is close to walking. If it was just about money he would have signed the 8 yr deal already. It's not just about money with this guy and its not just about being buddies with Snow & Weight. The guy wants to win. I don't think he wants to leave he just looking for them to do something to help him win and up until getting Lou in here they haven't done shat
- Vukota

100% this. Malkin has had meetings with jt and I'm sure Lou was brought here specifically to retain jt. Hes good for the org as a whole too but JT wants to win and this is step one in showing him you're for real

Sorry if I'm not as paranoid as you. Sure, winning helps, but then again Stamkos waited until 2 days before free agency to re-sign with Tampa despite winning 90+ games from 2014-2016.
- bgainesDM

And Tampa was a way more complete team than the isles too

Why do some compare the JT situation to Stamkos...?? Makes no sense when 1 team is far superior than other plus a better organization 2 boot ..

Why do some compare the JT situation to Stamkos...?? Makes no sense when 1 team is far superior than other plus a better organization 2 boot ..
- Ur Not Me

Both star players that were close to being ufas both 1 picks a lot of similarities. I agree the organizations were at opposite ends of the spectrum

oh
- eichiefs9

Even more reason to stay on the Ranger thread.

Welcome back B.D looking forward to this summer. Going to be a wild ride.

I once did an interview with Neil Smith... and the content was so out of control and whack... I had to deep-six it.

If you think Isles fans don't like Garth... well, they have NOTHING on the vitriol of Mr. Smith.
- B.D. Gallof

Vitriol may be exactly what this team needs. I've been through enough of these loops on these threads to conclude that the team avoids the bad boy players as opposed to drafting for "character" etc. If you watch enough Isles games you sense that the words Islanders and Situational Game Awareness do not go together. Just like Islander Fans and Standings Race, Playoff Race, Trade Deadline Pickups, Vezina Race and Hockey after Mid April do not play together.

However the words Garth Snow and Waived Goalie or Former Backup Is Now Our Starter do.

Honestly, does JT want to go to any city like TOR where the writers will dissect his game vs here where nary a bad word is said?

BTW have you ever interviewed Butch?

Why do some compare the JT situation to Stamkos...?? Makes no sense when 1 team is far superior than other plus a better organization 2 boot ..
- Ur Not Me

Because despite that accurate factor, Stamkos still waited till 2 days before FA.