We all make miskates. Some more than others.
- Steven_Seagull

Whatever do you mean?

Anyone watch the Cleveland LeBrons beat the Celtics?

From the 31 thoughts article.


With Brandon Pridham promoted and Laurence Gilman hired, the Maple Leafs are now looking to replace Mark Hunter’s spot in the organization. There’s a ton of interest. As Jeff Marek pointed out, a lot of the educated guessing surrounds Wes Clark, and we’re not talking about the retired U.S. Army General. Clark, 35, was Dubas’s first hire at OHL Sault Ste. Marie and later came to Toronto. He left for the Florida Panthers in 2016, where he is an amateur scout. (Cue the conspiracy music — he’s also tight with John Tavares.)

One NHL exec — who isn’t interested in the position — said that if the Maple Leafs wanted, they could simply draw up a list of people with local connections who would probably love to come back. Off the top of his head, he threw out Sean Burke (played for the old OHL Marlies, now with Montreal), Mike Futa (Toronto-born, Los Angeles), Scott Howson (Toronto-born, Edmonton) and two from the St. Louis front office, Bill Armstrong and Rob DiMaio, both of whom live in the city. Another GM wondered if Dubas will keep two of Hunter’s lieutenants, Lindsay Hofford and Jim Paliafito.

“They do a lot of the legwork,” he said.

Then there’s the question of whether or not they will put someone in Lou Lamoriello’s advisory role. I’m not convinced it will happen, especially since it is believed Ron Francis wishes to sit out a year. If I were in Dubas’s shoes, the thing that would tempt me is information. Knowledge is power in this business and someone like Chuck Fletcher, who was just in a GM chair, could bring a ton of intel.

This is good news.

Not too sold on Chuck Fletcher though. Already have Fletcher 1.0 and 2.0 doesn't look much better. Francis wouldn't be too bad but not that great either. I still think Dryden would be a great fit. He's very smart, very experienced in hockey, well respected and he had that magic touch when he was with the Leafs before.

In an effort to protect pitchers’ arms, Major League Baseball is a slave to the pitch count and has become much more sophisticated at optimizing rest. I wonder if we are getting to the point NHL teams look for deeper ideas than simply not playing your top goalie 65 times. Washington’s Braden Holtby was 18th in minutes played during the regular season. Vegas’s Marc-Andre Fleury was 25th.

Stanley Cup starters being farther from the top of the list is a growing trend. This decade, the only goalies to reach the Stanley Cup Final while in the top 10 are Pekka Rinne (10th, 2017), Martin Jones (5th, 2016), Henrik Lundqvist (4th, 2014) and Jonathan Quick (4th, 2012).

As a couple of goalie coaches pointed out, you’re not yanking your starter after two periods for Mariano Rivera. And the league is so tight with so much pressure to win that it’s not easy to play your backup more than 25 or 30 times. What a couple of sources indicated is we might see teams look at how goalies practise.

“Are practises and morning skates really that beneficial for your number-one goalie?” one said. “How many could they skip? Or, could they go on early, do their intense technical work with a small group, and then leave before the big group comes out there? I’m not sure you need your number-one for the big group too often.”

Was saying this for most of the season in terms of shots against for the goalies. Both Tampa Bay and Winnipeg had goalies that faced 2000+ shots. They didn't make the finals and both looked worn out by the end of their series while Holtby played way less than usual this year and Fleury has been splitting the season going back to almost three years ago.

From the 31 thoughts article.


With Brandon Pridham promoted and Laurence Gilman hired, the Maple Leafs are now looking to replace Mark Hunter’s spot in the organization. There’s a ton of interest. As Jeff Marek pointed out, a lot of the educated guessing surrounds Wes Clark, and we’re not talking about the retired U.S. Army General. Clark, 35, was Dubas’s first hire at OHL Sault Ste. Marie and later came to Toronto. He left for the Florida Panthers in 2016, where he is an amateur scout. (Cue the conspiracy music — he’s also tight with John Tavares.)

One NHL exec — who isn’t interested in the position — said that if the Maple Leafs wanted, they could simply draw up a list of people with local connections who would probably love to come back. Off the top of his head, he threw out Sean Burke (played for the old OHL Marlies, now with Montreal), Mike Futa (Toronto-born, Los Angeles), Scott Howson (Toronto-born, Edmonton) and two from the St. Louis front office, Bill Armstrong and Rob DiMaio, both of whom live in the city. Another GM wondered if Dubas will keep two of Hunter’s lieutenants, Lindsay Hofford and Jim Paliafito.

“They do a lot of the legwork,” he said.

Then there’s the question of whether or not they will put someone in Lou Lamoriello’s advisory role. I’m not convinced it will happen, especially since it is believed Ron Francis wishes to sit out a year. If I were in Dubas’s shoes, the thing that would tempt me is information. Knowledge is power in this business and someone like Chuck Fletcher, who was just in a GM chair, could bring a ton of intel.

This is good news.

Not too sold on Chuck Fletcher though. Already have Fletcher 1.0 and 2.0 doesn't look much better. Francis wouldn't be too bad but not that great either. I still think Dryden would be a great fit. He's very smart, very experienced in hockey, well respected and he had that magic touch when he was with the Leafs before.

In an effort to protect pitchers’ arms, Major League Baseball is a slave to the pitch count and has become much more sophisticated at optimizing rest. I wonder if we are getting to the point NHL teams look for deeper ideas than simply not playing your top goalie 65 times. Washington’s Braden Holtby was 18th in minutes played during the regular season. Vegas’s Marc-Andre Fleury was 25th.

Stanley Cup starters being farther from the top of the list is a growing trend. This decade, the only goalies to reach the Stanley Cup Final while in the top 10 are Pekka Rinne (10th, 2017), Martin Jones (5th, 2016), Henrik Lundqvist (4th, 2014) and Jonathan Quick (4th, 2012).

As a couple of goalie coaches pointed out, you’re not yanking your starter after two periods for Mariano Rivera. And the league is so tight with so much pressure to win that it’s not easy to play your backup more than 25 or 30 times. What a couple of sources indicated is we might see teams look at how goalies practise.

“Are practises and morning skates really that beneficial for your number-one goalie?” one said. “How many could they skip? Or, could they go on early, do their intense technical work with a small group, and then leave before the big group comes out there? I’m not sure you need your number-one for the big group too often.”

Was saying this for most of the season in terms of shots against for the goalies. Both Tampa Bay and Winnipeg had goalies that faced 2000+ shots. They didn't make the finals and both looked worn out by the end of their series while Holtby played way less than usual this year and Fleury has been splitting the season going back to almost three years ago.
- Unholy_Goalie

So 5 out of the last 7

So 5 out of the last 7
- HealthyScratch6

It's actually 5 out of the last 20. He said the last decade which is 10 years and Finals which requires two goalies per final, so 5 out of 20 goalies total. And 4 of them lost the Finals. So basically, 75% of the goalies who made the Finals weren't in the top 10 and 95% of the winning goalies weren't in the top 10.

No goalie who has faced 2,000+ shots has won (or made) the Finals in the past 26 years.

Since 2007/2008:

Osgood: 43 games played, 976 shots faced. (22.7 shots per game)
Fleury: 62 games played, 1,850 shots faced. (29.8 shots per game)
Niemi: 39 games played, 936 shots faced. (24 shots per game)
Thomas: 57 games played, 1,811 shots faced. (31 shots per game)
Quick: 69 games, 1,863 shots faced. (27 shots per game)
Crawford: 30 games, 769 shots faced. (25.6 shots per game)
Quick: 49 games played, 1,183 shots faced. (24 shots per game)
Crawford: 57 games played, 1,661 shots faced. (29 shots per game)

Murray: 13 games played, 355 shots faced. (27 shots per game)
(Playoff goalie)
Fleury: 58 games played, 1,665 shots faced. (28.7 shots per game)

Fleury: 38 games played, 1,181 shots faced. (31 shots per game)
(15 playoff games)
Murray: 49 games played, 1,450 shots faced. (29.6 shots per game)
(11 playoff games)

Holtby: 54 games played, 1,648 shots faced. (31.2 shots per game)
Fleury: 46 games played, 1,376 shots faced. (29.9 shots per game)

1992 - 2007

Giguere: 60 games played, 1,692 shots faced. (28 shots per game)
Ward: 28 games, 773 shots faced. (27.6 shots per game)
Khabibulin: 55 games played, 1,414 shots faced. (25.7 shots per game)
Brodeur: 75 games played, 1,845 shots faced. (24.6 shots per game.)
Hasek: 65 games played, 1,654 shots faced. (25.4 shots per game)
Roy: 62 games played, 1,513 shots faced. (24.4 shots per game)
Brodeur: 72 games played, 1,797 shots faced. (24.9 shots per game)
Belfour: 61 games played, 1,372 shots faced. (22.5 shots per game)
Osgood: 64 games played, 1,605 shots faced. (25 shots per game)

Osgood: 47 games played, 1,175 shots faced. (25 shots per game)
Vernon: 33 games played, 782 shots faced. (23.7 shots per game )(Playoff goalie)

Roy: 61 games played, 1,797 shots faced. (29.5 shots per game)
Brodeur: 40 games played, 908 shots faced. (22.7 shots per game)
Richter: 68 games played, 1,758 shots faced. (25.9 shots per game)
Roy: 62 games played, 1,814 shots faced. (29.3 shots per game)
Barasso: 57 games played, 1,702 shots faced. (29.9 shots per game)

The leafs really need some size that can play with there speedy skilled players. Looking at the depth chart the left wing is in need of an upgrade or two. Would a UFa like maroon or Nash, power forwards who can play a heavy game round out the third line? Personally I believe nylander should become the sneaky third line center dominating lesser compition with kappy on his right and some defensive muscle on his left. Leading me to think that Nash has more to offer and being a Ontario kid at the end of his career as a star player coming home to chase the cup as role player might be feasible. I wouldn't pay him more then 4mil but I'm interested to hear anyone's thoughts about shaping the roster for next season and if there are any ufa players not named jt that can complement the young core going forward?

Johnson-Matthews-marner
Marleau-kadri-Marner
Nash-nylander-kapanen
Martin-aaltanen-leivo

The leafs really need some size that can play with there speedy skilled players. Looking at the depth chart the left wing is in need of an upgrade or two. Would a UFa like maroon or Nash, power forwards who can play a heavy game round out the third line? Personally I believe nylander should become the sneaky third line center dominating lesser compition with kappy on his right and some defensive muscle on his left. Leading me to think that Nash has more to offer and being a Ontario kid at the end of his career as a star player coming home to chase the cup as role player might be feasible. I wouldn't pay him more then 4mil but I'm interested to hear anyone's thoughts about shaping the roster for next season and if there are any ufa players not named jt that can complement the young core going forward?

Johnson-Matthews-marner
Marleau-kadri-Marner
Nash-nylander-kapanen
Martin-aaltanen-leivo
- BrainSap

Marner getting double shifted?

No on Nash.

Where's Hyman and Brown?

The leafs really need some size that can play with there speedy skilled players. Looking at the depth chart the left wing is in need of an upgrade or two. Would a UFa like maroon or Nash, power forwards who can play a heavy game round out the third line? Personally I believe nylander should become the sneaky third line center dominating lesser compition with kappy on his right and some defensive muscle on his left. Leading me to think that Nash has more to offer and being a Ontario kid at the end of his career as a star player coming home to chase the cup as role player might be feasible. I wouldn't pay him more then 4mil but I'm interested to hear anyone's thoughts about shaping the roster for next season and if there are any ufa players not named jt that can complement the young core going forward?

Johnson-Matthews-marner
Marleau-kadri-Marner
Nash-nylander-kapanen
Martin-aaltanen-leivo
- BrainSap

Hyman Matthews Marner
Marleau Kadri Kapanen
Johnsson Nylander Grundstrom
Martin Aaltonen Brown

Hyman Matthews Marner
Marleau Kadri Kapanen
Johnsson Nylander Grundstrom
Martin Aaltonen Brown
- mr.sir

Or
11 34 16
12 43 24
UFA 29 28
Johnsson Aaltonen Grundstrom

Quirky stat I just read: Hyman had more even strength goals this season than Stamkos.

Quirky stat I just read: Hyman had more even strength goals this season than Stamkos.
- Zezel

And he was great in the playoffs and a great contract = give him an A next year

Anyone watch the Cleveland LeBrons beat the Celtics?
- PatC80

Squeak Squeak Shoot....I can't believe they let grown ass 7' men....take 3 steps before they shoot/pass/dunk. ( NBA's forgotten about the travelling violation )

Might as well move the home plate in baseball to 2nd base and stop letting the goalies in hockey wear gear.

Quirky stat I just read: Hyman had more even strength goals this season than Stamkos.
- Zezel

and Nylander

It's actually 5 out of the last 20. He said the last decade which is 10 years and Finals which requires two goalies per final, so 5 out of 20 goalies total. And 4 of them lost the Finals. So basically, 75% of the goalies who made the Finals weren't in the top 10 and 95% of the winning goalies weren't in the top 10.

No goalie who has faced 2,000+ shots has won (or made) the Finals in the past 26 years.

Since 2007/2008:

Osgood: 43 games played, 976 shots faced. (22.7 shots per game)
Fleury: 62 games played, 1,850 shots faced. (29.8 shots per game)
Niemi: 39 games played, 936 shots faced. (24 shots per game)
Thomas: 57 games played, 1,811 shots faced. (31 shots per game)
Quick: 69 games, 1,863 shots faced. (27 shots per game)
Crawford: 30 games, 769 shots faced. (25.6 shots per game)
Quick: 49 games played, 1,183 shots faced. (24 shots per game)
Crawford: 57 games played, 1,661 shots faced. (29 shots per game)

Murray: 13 games played, 355 shots faced. (27 shots per game)
(Playoff goalie)
Fleury: 58 games played, 1,665 shots faced. (28.7 shots per game)

Fleury: 38 games played, 1,181 shots faced. (31 shots per game)
(15 playoff games)
Murray: 49 games played, 1,450 shots faced. (29.6 shots per game)
(11 playoff games)

Holtby: 54 games played, 1,648 shots faced. (31.2 shots per game)
Fleury: 46 games played, 1,376 shots faced. (29.9 shots per game)

1992 - 2007

Giguere: 60 games played, 1,692 shots faced. (28 shots per game)
Ward: 28 games, 773 shots faced. (27.6 shots per game)
Khabibulin: 55 games played, 1,414 shots faced. (25.7 shots per game)
Brodeur: 75 games played, 1,845 shots faced. (24.6 shots per game.)
Hasek: 65 games played, 1,654 shots faced. (25.4 shots per game)
Roy: 62 games played, 1,513 shots faced. (24.4 shots per game)
Brodeur: 72 games played, 1,797 shots faced. (24.9 shots per game)
Belfour: 61 games played, 1,372 shots faced. (22.5 shots per game)
Osgood: 64 games played, 1,605 shots faced. (25 shots per game)

Osgood: 47 games played, 1,175 shots faced. (25 shots per game)
Vernon: 33 games played, 782 shots faced. (23.7 shots per game )(Playoff goalie)

Roy: 61 games played, 1,797 shots faced. (29.5 shots per game)
Brodeur: 40 games played, 908 shots faced. (22.7 shots per game)
Richter: 68 games played, 1,758 shots faced. (25.9 shots per game)
Roy: 62 games played, 1,814 shots faced. (29.3 shots per game)
Barasso: 57 games played, 1,702 shots faced. (29.9 shots per game)
- Unholy_Goalie

That's some interesting poop right there.

So back to A/B tandems? Can we let Sparks run with it for 25-30 games?

It's actually 5 out of the last 20. He said the last decade which is 10 years and Finals which requires two goalies per final, so 5 out of 20 goalies total. And 4 of them lost the Finals. So basically, 75% of the goalies who made the Finals weren't in the top 10 and 95% of the winning goalies weren't in the top 10.

No goalie who has faced 2,000+ shots has won (or made) the Finals in the past 26 years.

Since 2007/2008:

Osgood: 43 games played, 976 shots faced. (22.7 shots per game)
Fleury: 62 games played, 1,850 shots faced. (29.8 shots per game)
Niemi: 39 games played, 936 shots faced. (24 shots per game)
Thomas: 57 games played, 1,811 shots faced. (31 shots per game)
Quick: 69 games, 1,863 shots faced. (27 shots per game)
Crawford: 30 games, 769 shots faced. (25.6 shots per game)
Quick: 49 games played, 1,183 shots faced. (24 shots per game)
Crawford: 57 games played, 1,661 shots faced. (29 shots per game)

Murray: 13 games played, 355 shots faced. (27 shots per game)
(Playoff goalie)
Fleury: 58 games played, 1,665 shots faced. (28.7 shots per game)

Fleury: 38 games played, 1,181 shots faced. (31 shots per game)
(15 playoff games)
Murray: 49 games played, 1,450 shots faced. (29.6 shots per game)
(11 playoff games)

Holtby: 54 games played, 1,648 shots faced. (31.2 shots per game)
Fleury: 46 games played, 1,376 shots faced. (29.9 shots per game)

1992 - 2007

Giguere: 60 games played, 1,692 shots faced. (28 shots per game)
Ward: 28 games, 773 shots faced. (27.6 shots per game)
Khabibulin: 55 games played, 1,414 shots faced. (25.7 shots per game)
Brodeur: 75 games played, 1,845 shots faced. (24.6 shots per game.)
Hasek: 65 games played, 1,654 shots faced. (25.4 shots per game)
Roy: 62 games played, 1,513 shots faced. (24.4 shots per game)
Brodeur: 72 games played, 1,797 shots faced. (24.9 shots per game)
Belfour: 61 games played, 1,372 shots faced. (22.5 shots per game)
Osgood: 64 games played, 1,605 shots faced. (25 shots per game)

Osgood: 47 games played, 1,175 shots faced. (25 shots per game)
Vernon: 33 games played, 782 shots faced. (23.7 shots per game )(Playoff goalie)

Roy: 61 games played, 1,797 shots faced. (29.5 shots per game)
Brodeur: 40 games played, 908 shots faced. (22.7 shots per game)
Richter: 68 games played, 1,758 shots faced. (25.9 shots per game)
Roy: 62 games played, 1,814 shots faced. (29.3 shots per game)
Barasso: 57 games played, 1,702 shots faced. (29.9 shots per game)
- Unholy_Goalie

Coincidence coincided by some injuries that kept them out from playing more.

It's actually 5 out of the last 20. He said the last decade which is 10 years and Finals which requires two goalies per final, so 5 out of 20 goalies total. And 4 of them lost the Finals. So basically, 75% of the goalies who made the Finals weren't in the top 10 and 95% of the winning goalies weren't in the top 10.

No goalie who has faced 2,000+ shots has won (or made) the Finals in the past 26 years.

Since 2007/2008:

Osgood: 43 games played, 976 shots faced. (22.7 shots per game)
Fleury: 62 games played, 1,850 shots faced. (29.8 shots per game)
Niemi: 39 games played, 936 shots faced. (24 shots per game)
Thomas: 57 games played, 1,811 shots faced. (31 shots per game)
Quick: 69 games, 1,863 shots faced. (27 shots per game)
Crawford: 30 games, 769 shots faced. (25.6 shots per game)
Quick: 49 games played, 1,183 shots faced. (24 shots per game)
Crawford: 57 games played, 1,661 shots faced. (29 shots per game)

Murray: 13 games played, 355 shots faced. (27 shots per game)
(Playoff goalie)
Fleury: 58 games played, 1,665 shots faced. (28.7 shots per game)

Fleury: 38 games played, 1,181 shots faced. (31 shots per game)
(15 playoff games)
Murray: 49 games played, 1,450 shots faced. (29.6 shots per game)
(11 playoff games)

Holtby: 54 games played, 1,648 shots faced. (31.2 shots per game)
Fleury: 46 games played, 1,376 shots faced. (29.9 shots per game)

1992 - 2007

Giguere: 60 games played, 1,692 shots faced. (28 shots per game)
Ward: 28 games, 773 shots faced. (27.6 shots per game)
Khabibulin: 55 games played, 1,414 shots faced. (25.7 shots per game)
Brodeur: 75 games played, 1,845 shots faced. (24.6 shots per game.)
Hasek: 65 games played, 1,654 shots faced. (25.4 shots per game)
Roy: 62 games played, 1,513 shots faced. (24.4 shots per game)
Brodeur: 72 games played, 1,797 shots faced. (24.9 shots per game)
Belfour: 61 games played, 1,372 shots faced. (22.5 shots per game)
Osgood: 64 games played, 1,605 shots faced. (25 shots per game)

Osgood: 47 games played, 1,175 shots faced. (25 shots per game)
Vernon: 33 games played, 782 shots faced. (23.7 shots per game )(Playoff goalie)

Roy: 61 games played, 1,797 shots faced. (29.5 shots per game)
Brodeur: 40 games played, 908 shots faced. (22.7 shots per game)
Richter: 68 games played, 1,758 shots faced. (25.9 shots per game)
Roy: 62 games played, 1,814 shots faced. (29.3 shots per game)
Barasso: 57 games played, 1,702 shots faced. (29.9 shots per game)
- Unholy_Goalie

Goalies who face less shots are on better teams who are more likely to make the finals.

Goalies who face less shots are on better teams who are more likely to make the finals.
- Zezel

You didn't even need to scour the internet for hours either.

Goalies who face less shots are on better teams who are more likely to make the finals.
- Zezel

I think it's worth looking into though: really assessing and measuring a goalie's fatigue levels besides, "how do you feel tonight, champ?".

I'd like to see some stats on backups that come into the playoffs and don't play well though: I mean, they're all highly-competitive NHL goaltenders, I would think even Toskala would've been alright in a ECF game.

You didn't even need to scour the internet for hours either.
- Garnie

I think this past season's Leafs are a good example. If you watched the games, Andersen was fantastic. The Leafs gave up too many shots because their D needs improvement (which seems to be a general consensus). My theory is they don't need to rest Andersen more, they need to upgrade the D corps.

I think it's worth looking into though: really assessing and measuring a goalie's fatigue levels besides, "how do you feel tonight, champ?".

I'd like to see some stats on backups that come into the playoffs and don't play well though: I mean, they're all highly-competitive NHL goaltenders, I would think even Toskala would've been alright in a ECF game.
- gravyface

I'm pretty sure the Leafs are doing that with their sports science department, as are a lot of teams. These guys are tracked and their activity is prescribed to a fine degree.

I'm pretty sure the Leafs are doing that with their sports science department, as are a lot of teams. These guys are tracked and their activity is prescribed to a fine degree.
- Zezel

I wish my activity was prescribed to a fine degree: I keep making poor choices, like eating an entire bag of BBQ corn chips yesterday.

I wish my activity was prescribed to a fine degree: I keep making poor choices, like eating an entire bag of BBQ corn chips yesterday.
- gravyface

(frank) that sounds good, I haven't had corn chips for a while. I like the ones that have a good scoop shape so you can use them to ladle molten processed cheese.

I wish my activity was prescribed to a fine degree: I keep making poor choices, like eating an entire bag of BBQ corn chips yesterday.
- gravyface

Or like me with my 6th slice of pizza at 1am ( and 2 pepperettes ) crutching down my stairs with the Zaaaa hanging from my mouth. ( after quite a few beers etc )

(frank) that sounds good, I haven't had corn chips for a while. I like the ones that have a good scoop shape so you can use them to ladle molten processed cheese.
- Zezel

Taco soup in the slow cooker....then top with a glob of sour cream / shredded cheese and some corn chips.

Taco soup in the slow cooker....then top with a glob of sour cream / shredded cheese and some corn chips.
- Garnie

OMFG

GO LEAFS FRANKIN' GO