Who?

And Wilson had little to no impact on that series. It was the Kuzy and Ovi show featuring Vrana.
- Feds91Stammer

You said this year in comments you can’t win a cup with 3 players you need depth in all 4 lines... please now back up your constant verbal diarrhea with stats showing how great the caps 4th line is.... go ahead I’ll wait. Please show me how amazing reaves, bellemare, beagle, paquette, Kunitz, Callahan, chiasson, dsp have driven there lines to succeed!? There was lots of you saying you need a great 4th line in playoffs to win so here’s your Chance to show us how good these 4th lines are!?

Dumpsterfire.

Who?

And Wilson had little to no impact on that series. It was the Kuzy and Ovi show featuring Vrana.
- Feds91Stammer

In make believe stats world no. In the real world on the ice where players were playing hockey Wilson humiliated and intimidated the pens.

Who?

And Wilson had little to no impact on that series. It was the Kuzy and Ovi show featuring Vrana.
- Feds91Stammer

You just keep digging yourself holes eh bud... go check out kuz, Ovie and Wilson’s analytics as a line then compare them to kuz Ovie and dsp as a line... your “NO IMPACT” statement looks even more retarded then. This from someone who hates Wilson but he definitely makes them better then worse. That’s a fact.

Nah
- j.boyd919

Yeah actual hall of famer nhlers love having a guy like Reaves on their team. You and stats nation probably know better though right? I mean it’s right there on a screen, the algorithm to win a Stanley cup has been written.

Dumpsterfire.
- Victoro311

Agreed.

Dumpsterfire.
- Victoro311

hahaha

What isn't right about it? Everyone had them as a bottom 5 team and they completely destroyed everyone's expectations.
- Feds91Stammer

I'm in no way saying they dont deserve to be there. Their play has been stellar and crazy consistent since opening night. There's just something about them being in the finals in their first year, when theres other franchises that havent been in decades, that doesn't feel right to me haha. No biggie Feds, my feelings don't warrant a questioning response.

Anyone who thinks pure analytics only is correct clearly is biased. Anyone who thinks pure stats or watching games is clearly biased. You have to have a mix. Hence why all 31 nhl teams have a clear mix of both. Do analytics show a picture and help? 100% they do. Does scouting and game film show a picture and help 100% it does. Is it clear the remaining 4 teams, coaches gms, players included aren’t all above average on analytics... well the charts are showing that as well. Anyone with half a brain knows there isn’t a 100% clear way to show it or they wouldn’t play the games. Teams simply wouldn’t spend a single dollar let alone $5 million on scouting or thousands of hours watching film if only analytics alone mattered.

Never said he doesn't deserve any credit...

GTFOH
- Feds91Stammer

Does it make you mad when guys like Reaves succeed at the ultimate level of their sport because you had a hat trick in b league? Are you one of those guys?

Anyone who thinks pure analytics only is correct clearly is biased. Anyone who thinks pure stats or watching games is clearly biased. You have to have a mix. Hence why all 31 nhl teams have a clear mix of both. Do analytics show a picture and help? 100% they do. Does scouting and game film show a picture and help 100% it does. Is it clear the remaining 4 teams, coaches gms, players included aren’t all above average on analytics... well the charts are showing that as well. Anyone with half a brain knows there isn’t a 100% clear way to show it or they wouldn’t play the games. Teams simply wouldn’t spend a single dollar let alone $5 million on scouting or thousands of hours watching film if only analytics alone mattered.
- pens4life-66

No one thinks purely analytics are correct. Absolutely no one. Every single person who is an "analytics guy" watches the sport too. It's absurd to think otherwise.

You said this year in comments you can’t win a cup with 3 players you need depth in all 4 lines... please now back up your constant verbal diarrhea with stats showing how great the caps 4th line is.... go ahead I’ll wait. Please show me how amazing reaves, bellemare, beagle, paquette, Kunitz, Callahan, chiasson, dsp have driven there lines to succeed!? There was lots of you saying you need a great 4th line in playoffs to win so here’s your Chance to show us how good these 4th lines are!?
- pens4life-66

The Caps are actually getting depth scoring from Vrana, DSP, Beagle, Connolly, and Stephenson. All of those guys have 5-7 points

No one thinks purely analytics are correct. Absolutely no one. Every single person who is an "analytics guy" watches the sport too. It's absurd to think otherwise.
- j.boyd919

Well some people only back up there points with clearly analytical responses. Which points to them only thinking that is correct I’d say no?

The Caps are actually getting depth scoring from Vrana, DSP, Beagle, Connolly, and Stephenson. All of those guys have 5-7 points
- j.boyd919

That’s kind of what I’m saying here. They are performing but from analytics side I think there was a blog on how bad of a player beagle and dsp have been and how they “drag” down teammates. If I get time I’ll try and look back and bring it up.

Well some people only back up there points with clearly analytical responses. Which points to them only thinking that is correct I’d say no?
- pens4life-66

Not necessarily. Have you ever done the eye test, test?

https://www.youtube.com/w...continue=57&v=_w1IKTPrTNw

The reason that people refer to stats and advanced stats is because there's 82 games in a season, and no one is capable of remembering EVERY instance from every game. No one is saying that people can't recognize good hockey plays, or appreciate this, or recognize a big goal... but to effectively look back at an 82 game season, to see the type of impact a player had on a team... stats are necessary EVEN if you have 82 games worth of tape, your mind just can't (frank)ing remember all that poop.

Dumpsterfire.
- Victoro311

Inevitable.

Not necessarily. Have you ever done the eye test, test?

https://www.youtube.com/w...continue=57&v=_w1IKTPrTNw

The reason that people refer to stats and advanced stats is because there's 82 games in a season, and no one is capable of remembering EVERY instance from every game. No one is saying that people can't recognize good hockey plays, or appreciate this, or recognize a big goal... but to effectively look back at an 82 game season, to see the type of impact a player had on a team... stats are necessary EVEN if you have 82 games worth of tape, your mind just can't (frank)ing remember all that poop.
- j.boyd919

Yes I understand this. Would you have been fine if the pens had picked up players such as beagle and dsp at the deadline then to fill the depth!? They are posting points now!? But what would we have said about how bad there analytics numbers look like at the time!? Would you be fine having 2 of those guys on the pens 4th line next year!?

Yes I understand this. Would you have been fine if the pens had picked up players such as beagle and dsp at the deadline then to fill the depth!? They are posting points now!? But what would we have said about how bad there analytics numbers look like at the time!? Would you be fine having 2 of those guys on the pens 4th line next year!?
- pens4life-66

I would rather have Beagle and DSP than Kuhnackl, Rowney and Reaves, yes I would be okay with having them on the Pens over the Pens 4th liners from this year.

I would rather have Beagle and DSP than Kuhnackl, Rowney and Reaves, yes I would be okay with having them on the Pens over the Pens 4th liners from this year.
- j.boyd919

And I agree I’d rather have those 2 then the other 3. Not really my point. All season there is proof in the comments people saying you can’t have guys that are that bad analytically playing onyour 4th line or your team will lose. Go back and look at Wilson’s blogs... there is 3 in a week he repeated that same statement that players that “drag” down teammates can’t be in the lineup or your team will lose... it looks like that was completely false now because beagle and dsp have had analytics numbers that “drag” down teammates.

And I agree I’d rather have those 2 then the other 3. Not really my point. All season there is proof in the comments people saying you can’t have guys that are that bad analytically playing onyour 4th line or your team will lose. Go back and look at Wilson’s blogs... there is 3 in a week he repeated that same statement that players that “drag” down teammates can’t be in the lineup or your team will lose... it looks like that was completely false now because beagle and dsp have had analytics numbers that “drag” down teammates.
- pens4life-66

You're absolutely right that some people had that take. RW, who I generally like, is one of those who goes over the top when he picks a side.

I think most people's take was that together they made up a poor line, but one or two of the parts were salvageable with better linemates. Even a 4th line needs somebody to elevate it, but we were basically arguing if Reaves or Kuhnhackl was the best player when really either is a 12-13 forward (I still refuse to give Rowney even that much credit).

Kuhnhackl and Reaves are both guys who fill a niche that depending on the rest of your roster you may not need, but they aren't going to move the needle much either way on how good your team is. They should just be competing to see who is the last player in the line-up, not who is the best player in their line.

You're absolutely right that some people had that take. RW, who I generally like, is one of those who goes over the top when he picks a side.

I think most people's take was that together they made up a poor line, but one or two of the parts were salvageable with better linemates. Even a 4th line needs somebody to elevate it, but we were basically arguing if Reaves or Kuhnhackl was the best player when really either is a 12-13 forward (I still refuse to give Rowney even that much credit).

Kuhnhackl and Reaves are both guys who fill a niche that depending on the rest of your roster you may not need, but they aren't going to move the needle much either way on how good your team is. They should just be competing to see who is the last player in the line-up, not who is the best player in their line.
- Tojo.

100% agree with this.
Exactly what I’ve been saying before that Reaves can be your 12th forward and be a succesful team. There is at least 2 regular commentors from here that have said something along the lines of you can’t have any player that bad and win in the playoffs. Which is not aging well haha

But yes I see what you are saying and glad you see my point that Wilson had blog after blog after blog saying it wasn’t possible.

In my opinion if Reaves would have played I think he wouldn’t have just went and asked Wilson to have a fight like Oleksiak did respectfully. He would have made a mockery of him and his “tough guy” image. I know you can’t prove anything through statistics but I know when people are being bumholes and bullying people in everyday life the feeling it gives others to bully the bully. So many great nhlers on record saying how great it makes them feel having that. Brett Hull, Gretzky, Yzerman, Lindstrom, CROSBY. Then who knows. Might have scored a big goal to get us to the conference finals. Either way I think my side of the argument is being proved right anyways right now.
- Grinder47

Where does this image of Wilson come from? he fights a lot, and Reaves is the only NHL player he's ever lost to in a fight.

Reaves is going to bully Wilson because of that? Wut.

Where does this image of Wilson come from? he fights a lot, and Reaves is the only NHL player he's ever lost to in a fight.

Reaves is going to bully Wilson because of that? Wut.
- Blackstrom2

That image of Wilson comes from uh Wilson.

No one thinks purely analytics are correct. Absolutely no one. Every single person who is an "analytics guy" watches the sport too. It's absurd to think otherwise.
- j.boyd919

I seriously think some guys only enjoyment from hockey is seeing how good or bad a team is doing, then reading a bunch of dumb stats and forming an opinion in such a way that the stats are correct and using those stats to argue their opinion. Basically they have no opinion

That image of Wilson comes from uh Wilson.
- Grinder47

Except he fights all the time. More than Oleksiak. He's fought Reaves twice.

You think Reaves is going to bully Wilson. You said that.