Thanks for starting off my week in a fun way.
- Scoob

The Mike Richards thing was/is a tough one to wrap my head around as a fan. He was definitely my favorite player in that era.
- johndewar

When the Flyers traded him, after my fury subsided 2 days later, I was still a fan of his in LA, and I was really happy for him that he won the Cup. But then just 3 years later, 5 years after being the Captain of a SCF team and being considered a top-10 all-around player in the NHL, the dude can't make it out of the AHL regularly.

I'm not gonna accuse him of anything for sure, but I think a lot of people can draw their conclusions of the rabbit hole he fell down.

But man, between 2007 and 2010, he was a treat to watch.

When thinking of every forward to ever play for the Flyers, taking their entire games into account, where does Claude Giroux stand for you? Top-10? Top-20? Top-25+?

Obviously, Clarke, Barber, and Lindros are above him, they are locks. But after that, there's a lot to consider. I'd put Brindy, Kerr, Propp, and MacLeish above him. But then you start getting to guys like Tocchet, Recchi, LeClair, Leach, Poulin, and Gagne, guys who played completely different styles but were big keys to their respective Flyers' teams. I think that is where he falls, anywhere from around 8-15.

Thoughts?
- jmatchett383

Hmmm...my gut says top 10 but I'd have to put some thought into it.

Hmmm...my gut says top 10 but I'd have to put some thought into it.
- Scoob

Same. It's always hard to gauge current players because you get to see them every game. It's when they're gone that you really appreciate what they did.

Same with bands that you pass on every time they come through town because you can always see them later, but the kick yourself for not seeing when they hang them up.

When the Flyers traded him, after my fury subsided 2 days later, I was still a fan of his in LA, and I was really happy for him that he won the Cup. But then just 3 years later, 5 years after being the Captain of a SCF team and being considered a top-10 all-around player in the NHL, the dude can't make it out of the AHL regularly.

I'm not gonna accuse him of anything for sure, but I think a lot of people can draw their conclusions of the rabbit hole he fell down.

But man, between 2007 and 2010, he was a treat to watch.
- jmatchett383

It's weird, but I distinctly recall listening to news of those trades trickle out over sports radio when they went down that and being in disbelief that Richards got traded.

Carter, I understood, and kind of expected at the time, but not Richards.

And that off-season got even weirder when they added Jagr.

It's weird, but I distinctly recall listening to news of those trades trickle out over sports radio when they went down that and being in disbelief that Richards got traded.

Carter, I understood, and kind of expected at the time, but not Richards.

And that off-season got even weirder when they added Jagr.
- johndewar

The one time I remember that Ek got one right.

Everyone was, at the very least, not shocked that Carter was traded. Then Eklund wrote that Richards was on the move, and then I remember my friend calling me and asking me if I was sitting down. I threw a mini tantrum in the middle of the office.

Then my wife cooked me buffalo wings.

Hot take: Brian Propp was a better player in the '80's than Hall of Famer Mike Gartner.

Gartner was just able to play for much longer and accumulate more numbers.

Fight me.

Same. It's always hard to gauge current players because you get to see them every game. It's when they're gone that you really appreciate what they did.
- jmatchett383

Yes, and sentimentality kicks in, too. From a pure "favorites" perspective, I'm not sure he'd crack the top 10 for me since I witnessed the Cups at a very impressionable age.

Same with bands that you pass on every time they come through town because you can always see them later, but the kick yourself for not seeing when they hang them up.

Yup. There are many bands I now wish I just ponied up and saw in their heyday with the original lineups. To that end I'm very glad that I saw the Genesis reunion tour in 2007. Wasn't the full original band of course, but there were no replacements.

The one time I remember that Ek got one right.

Everyone was, at the very least, not shocked that Carter was traded. Then Eklund wrote that Richards was on the move, and then I remember my friend calling me and asking me if I was sitting down. I threw a mini tantrum in the middle of the office.

Then my wife cooked me buffalo wings.
- jmatchett383

Did that help?

Yes, and sentimentality kicks in, too. From a pure "favorites" perspective, I'm not sure he'd crack the top 10 for me since I witnessed the Cups at a very impressionable age.



Yup. There are many bands I now wish I just ponied up and saw in their heyday with the original lineups. To that end I'm very glad that I saw the Genesis reunion tour in 2007. Wasn't the full original band of course, but there were no replacements.
- Scoob

I've never seen Metallica. I heard they're coming back this summer, but if tickets are going to be $200 again, I just can't justify that with 2 kids, a house, and a car payment.

Did that help?
- Scoob

A bit. Delicious food always lowers the urge to kill-o-meter.

When thinking of every forward to ever play for the Flyers, taking their entire games into account, where does Claude Giroux stand for you? Top-10? Top-20? Top-25+?

Obviously, Clarke, Barber, and Lindros are above him, they are locks. But after that, there's a lot to consider. I'd put Brindy, Kerr, Propp, and MacLeish above him. But then you start getting to guys like Tocchet, Recchi, LeClair, Leach, Poulin, and Gagne, guys who played completely different styles but were big keys to their respective Flyers' teams. I think that is where he falls, anywhere from around 8-15.

Thoughts?
- jmatchett383

I’d put him behind:
Clarke
Lindros
Barber
Leclair
Kerr
MacLeish
Propp

So he’d be 8th on my list, just ahead of Brind’Amour and Recchi.

edit: one more season like last year, and he’ll pass Propp on my list. If he has a couple more top seasons and can lead this team to a Cup, he’ll shoot up to #4, right behind the 3 Hall of Fame guys.

I've never seen Metallica. I heard they're coming back this summer, but if tickets are going to be $200 again, I just can't justify that with 2 kids, a house, and a car payment.
- jmatchett383

I was just complaining to someone that I hadn't been to a real concert in about 5 years or so. And even that one, I had to move heaven and earth to get tickets and get to the show.

Nowadays, it's a victory if I can get to a free music event at some county park somewhere.

Being an adult blows.

I've never seen Metallica. I heard they're coming back this summer, but if tickets are going to be $200 again, I just can't justify that with 2 kids, a house, and a car payment.
- jmatchett383

Me either - $200 will probably be the price if you can get them direct. Secondary market will be more.

The one time I remember that Ek got one right.

Everyone was, at the very least, not shocked that Carter was traded. Then Eklund wrote that Richards was on the move, and then I remember my friend calling me and asking me if I was sitting down. I threw a mini tantrum in the middle of the office.

Then my wife cooked me buffalo wings.
- jmatchett383

The days of sincere emotional attachment to athletes dampened deeply upon the Richards trade going down. It was the end of a certain era of fanhood for me.

As for his dropoff (previously discussed) the way things played out with him it's certainly fair to observe off the ice matters. However, I think it's as simple as his body broke down. He was an undersized player who threw his body around in a way usually unseen. Concussions were a repetitive occurrence in his career and some other injuries that could be debilitating were documented in his Flyers career. It came out he played one season with two torn labrums, he said he couldn't lift his stick for a slapshot.

His playing style was a treasure to watch, but highly suspicious it also led to his body breaking down.

The days of sincere emotional attachment to athletes dampened deeply upon the Richards trade going down. It was the end of a certain era of fanhood for me.

As for his dropoff (previously discussed) the way things played out with him it's certainly fair to observe off the ice matters. However, I think it's as simple as his body broke down. He was an undersized player who threw his body around in a way usually unseen. Concussions were a repetitive occurrence in his career and some other injuries that could be debilitating were documented in his Flyers career. It came out he played one season with two torn labrums, he said he couldn't lift his stick for a slapshot.

His playing style was a treasure to watch, but highly suspicious it also led to his body breaking down.
- Lip_Out

Well, as you said, he was an undersized player who threw his body around like he was Eric Lindros. That definitely led to some injuries that probably had to be "cared for" that may have led to some unwanted consequences. When you factor in reports both on and off the record of his lifestyle (and what good-looking, rich, 22-year-old would act differently?), it gives you a picture of what went down.

Still pisses me off a bit, even though the trade was a very good one.

I’d put him behind:
Clarke
Lindros
Barber
Leclair
Kerr
MacLeish
Propp

So he’d be 8th on my list, just ahead of Brind’Amour and Recchi.

edit: one more season like last year, and he’ll pass Propp on my list. If he has a couple more top seasons and can lead this team to a Cup, he’ll shoot up to #4, right behind the 3 Hall of Fame guys.
- BiggE

Good list but missing Orest Kindrachuk.

Good list but missing Orest Kindrachuk.
- Marc D

🤣👍

Good list but missing Orest Kindrachuk.
- Marc D

I see folks online -- not necessarily here -- losing their minds about Vegas in the final, but I just don't feel that way.

God bless them, and I don't mean to run down the entire roster, but FFS. If Ron Hextall had run that roster onto the ice for Game 1 last season, I think the vast, vast majority of us would have lost our damn minds

Again: They clearly have pieces that were undervalued. But come on. I can't lose my mind over a team doing something I still can't believe they are doing -- I mean, come on. We have all seen Fleury get strafed year after year in the postseason. Not only do I not believe what they have done, I can't believe Fleury is the one in net

I see folks online -- not necessarily here -- losing their minds about Vegas in the final, but I just don't feel that way.

God bless them, and I don't mean to run down the entire roster, but FFS. If Ron Hextall had run that roster onto the ice for Game 1 last season, I think the vast, vast majority of us would have lost our damn minds

Again: They clearly have pieces that were undervalued. But come on. I can't lose my mind over a team doing something I still can't believe they are doing -- I mean, come on. We have all seen Fleury get strafed year after year in the postseason. Not only do I not believe what they have done, I can't believe Fleury is the one in net
- AllInForFlyers

MAF only had two bad postseasons, 2012 and 2013. Since then, he's been about average. Remember last season, he was the #1 reason that Pittsburgh beat Washington. This is the best he's ever played, and that goes for his regular season numbers as well.

I think it's actually about coaching. They have a system, and they were able to hand-pick, from what was available, the best players to fit that system. It wasn't a new coach/GM coming in and having any players he didn't like, they were able to select certain types of players. Then they were able to get everyone to buy into the system. Add to that some great goaltending, and while it's certainly not what anyone expected, but I'm not mad about it.

I see folks online -- not necessarily here -- losing their minds about Vegas in the final, but I just don't feel that way.

God bless them, and I don't mean to run down the entire roster, but FFS. If Ron Hextall had run that roster onto the ice for Game 1 last season, I think the vast, vast majority of us would have lost our damn minds

Again: They clearly have pieces that were undervalued. But come on. I can't lose my mind over a team doing something I still can't believe they are doing -- I mean, come on. We have all seen Fleury get strafed year after year in the postseason. Not only do I not believe what they have done, I can't believe Fleury is the one in net
- AllInForFlyers

I think it's fantastic that they're in the finals. It's great for the league. It's what happens when all of the pieces gel together to make the best team not necessarily the best collection of players on paper.

It's weird, but I distinctly recall listening to news of those trades trickle out over sports radio when they went down that and being in disbelief that Richards got traded.

Carter, I understood, and kind of expected at the time, but not Richards.

And that off-season got even weirder when they added Jagr.
- johndewar

I was much more angry about Carter being traded than I was Richards because I considered Carter to be the better player.

I think it's actually about coaching. They have a system, and they were able to hand-pick, from what was available, the best players to fit that system. It wasn't a new coach/GM coming in and having any players he didn't like, they were able to select certain types of players. Then they were able to get everyone to buy into the system. Add to that some great goaltending, and while it's certainly not what anyone expected, but I'm not mad about it.
- jmatchett383

Pretty much this

What does impress me is just how tenacious the players are. The opposition gets no free space at all. That's a testament to conditioning.

Pronman's top 20 Draft Rankings are a bit interesting..
1. Rasmus Dahlin
2. Andrei Svechnikov
3. Filip Zadina
4. Jesperi Kotkaniemi
5. Quinn Hughes
6. Oliver Wahlstrom
7. Adam Boqvist
8. Dominik Bokk
9. Brady Tkachuk
10. Ryan Merkley
11. Joe Veleno
12. Rasmus Kupari
13. Grigori Denisenko
14. Jesse Ylonen
15. Vitali Kravtsov
16. Bode Wilde
17. Ruslan Iskhakov
18. Evan Bouchard
19. Kirill Marchenko
20. Noah Dobson

Others of interest
27. Joel Farabee
31. Isac Lundestrom
51. Jared McIsaac
69. Mattias Samuelsson