What is the deal with Martel?
- nastyflyergirl

I'd like to see him get another look. I think he has obvious skill.

He's undersized, and only an average skater at the NHL level. He's skilled, but not skilled enough to overcome the other deficiencies in his game. I don't think he'll ever be an NHL regular.
- BiggE

I've heard people say that but Martel is plenty fast. He is certainly not of the McDavid, Athanasiou or Grabner type of speed category, but he is a fast skater. The problem is that he's kind of a one-trick pony (although he's also a feisty little guy) and a player his size needs to be a Danny Briere or Johnny Gaudreau level talent offensively to make it. He's probably not quite good enough to score on a regular basis in the NHL.

Who was the goalie who played in place of Lyon in Game 2? Muse? Stolarz?

Who was the goalie who played in place of Lyon in Game 2? Muse? Stolarz?
- hockeylover

It was Tokarski. Stolarz isn't playing because of injury, although there was a photo of him at practice last week.

Who was the goalie who played in place of Lyon in Game 2? Muse? Stolarz?
- hockeylover

Tokarski. Also played Game 3 vs. Providence. Gordon tried to break up the work when there were back-to-back. Worked out very well in Games 3/4 vs. Providence. Didn't work so well in Game 2 vs. Charlotte. In fairness to Tokarski, though, I don't think any goalie was going to do much in that game. He didn't play as bad as his stat line looked but also didn't make many tough saves.

It was Tokarski. Stolarz isn't playing because of injury, although there was a photo of him at practice last week.
- Feanor

Thanks. I wasn't sure if Stolarz had gotten into any games yet. I know he has practiced some I thought.

Tokarski. Also played Game 3 vs. Providence. Gordon tried to break up the work when there were back-to-back. Worked out very well in Games 3/4 vs. Providence. Didn't work so well in Game 2 vs. Charlotte. In fairness to Tokarski, though, I don't think any goalie was going to do much in that game. He didn't play as bad as his stat line looked but also didn't make many tough saves.
- bmeltzer

Thanks Bill. I completely forgot about Tokarski.

Martel is very small, but he's a plus skater at any level.
- Feanor

I guess. During the short time he was up here he looked like a solid skater, but I don't remember him really standing out or blowing anyone away with his speed. In his defense though, it was a very small sample size.

Tokarski. Also played Game 3 vs. Providence. Gordon tried to break up the work when there were back-to-back. Worked out very well in Games 3/4 vs. Providence. Didn't work so well in Game 2 vs. Charlotte. In fairness to Tokarski, though, I don't think any goalie was going to do much in that game. He didn't play as bad as his stat line looked but also didn't make many tough saves.
- bmeltzer

Bill,

Is Varone any closer to dressing? Is there speculation on how long he may be out?

I have tickets for Saturday's game in Charlotte and was hoping he may play.

Thanks!

Martel is very small, but he's a plus skater at any level.
- Feanor

I know a few games at the NHL level where you look good doesn't mean much (see Weal/Leier who couldn't consistently play at the level needed) but I really thought he created chances when he had the opportunity and didn't hurt them defensively.

I've heard people say that but Martel is plenty fast. He is certainly not of the McDavid, Athanasiou or Grabner type of speed category, but he is a fast skater. The problem is that he's kind of a one-trick pony (although he's also a feisty little guy) and a player his size needs to be a Danny Briere or Johnny Gaudreau level talent offensively to make it. He's probably not quite good enough to score on a regular basis in the NHL.
- bmeltzer

I guess I just get annoyed with the pigeon holing of players. Why is it assumed that because he is small he can't contribute to a speedy 4th line? I sometimes wonder if guys don't get a chance when they may have been ok players because of this thinking.

I know a few games at the NHL level where you look good doesn't mean much (see Weal/Leier who couldn't consistently play at the level needed) but I really thought he created chances when he had the opportunity and didn't hurt them defensively.
- nastyflyergirl

I think part of what hurts his chances here is that he needs to be in the top 9 to be successful and with Giroux and Konecny already filling 2 of those spots, they didn't want another going to guy as small as Martel. At 5'8 160, I just don't think he's going to put up the consistent numbers that he would need to do in order to win a regular job at the NHL level.

Heck, he makes Konecny look big!

I guess I just get annoyed with the pigeon holing of players. Why is it assumed that because he is small he can't contribute to a speedy 4th line? I sometimes wonder if guys don't get a chance when they may have been ok players because of this thinking.
- nastyflyergirl

It depends on what they want. If they want to go with a traditional checking/shutdown 4th line, then he doesn't have the skillset. If they want him to be a scorer who doesn't burn the team, then he's have to play a top-9 role, but on a line with more defensively responsible players.

Like Bill said, his primary asset is his scoring, but he hasn't shown to be the kind of guy whose scoring can offset his deficiencies.

I guess. During the short time he was up here he looked like a solid skater, but I don't remember him really standing out or blowing anyone away with his speed. In his defense though, it was a very small sample size.
- BiggE

he had scoring chances in every game and a breakaway in one of them. the problem was he didn't finish any of those chances. He looked pretty quick to me

I know a few games at the NHL level where you look good doesn't mean much (see Weal/Leier who couldn't consistently play at the level needed) but I really thought he created chances when he had the opportunity and didn't hurt them defensively.
- nastyflyergirl

Weal contributed a lot more than Leier did. Or Lehtera, or Weise.

I guess I just get annoyed with the pigeon holing of players. Why is it assumed that because he is small he can't contribute to a speedy 4th line? I sometimes wonder if guys don't get a chance when they may have been ok players because of this thinking.
- nastyflyergirl

I'm fine with a speedy 4th line, hell, I want more speed throughout the lineup. However, one of the things you really want from your 4th line though is guys that can kill penalties so your top forwards don't have to expend as much energy doing it. I don't see Martel filling that role. I want Pkers with speed for sure, but I also want guys who are at least average sized and have more reach than a guy like Martel.

Weal contributed a lot more than Leier did. Or Lehtera, or Weise.
- Feanor

Well yeah, but that's not exactly a high bar to jump over.

Weal contributed a lot more than Leier did. Or Lehtera, or Weise.
- Feanor

Weal had his moments where I thought there is the guy from last year then disappeared. Overall I was disappointed with his season. Hopefully he can put it together for next season. If he wants another NHL deal from the Flyers or another team he is going to have to prove he can contribute so hopefully that has him very motivated.

Weal contributed a lot more than Leier did. Or Lehtera, or Weise.
- Feanor

Yes, but so did Brandon Manning.

I'm fine with a speedy 4th line, hell, I want more speed throughout the lineup. However, one of the things you really want from your 4th line though is guys that can kill penalties so your top forwards don't have to expend as much energy doing it. I don't see Martel filling that role. I want Pkers with speed for sure, but I also want guys who are at least average sized and have more reach than a guy like Martel.
- BiggE

My point is more about I would love for there not to be this predetermined opinion of players due to their size or would be roles.

My point is more about I would love for there not to be this predetermined opinion of players due to their size or would be roles.
- nastyflyergirl

That's fine, but you're not making a team to play a game of shinny, you have to construct a team to play a certain system. Within that system, players have to perform certain roles. It's up to the coach and GM to determine what those roles should be and the player than best suits them.

For example, as good as he was in Philly, if you had a team full of Danny Briere's, you'd never win a game because the other team would basically be playing 5-on-2 whenever they had the puck.

My point is more about I would love for there not to be this predetermined opinion of players due to their size or would be roles.
- nastyflyergirl

Fair enough, and for the most part I agree. I do though want my 4th line guys to be guys that can kill penalties. I don't like having Couturier, who is now the #1 center playing 3-4 minutes on the PK if it can be avoided. I think playing nearly 22 minutes a game wore him down as the season went on. If you can load up your 4th line with guys that can both skate and kill penalties, maybe you can cut Couturier's PK time in half and knock a minute or 2 off of his total TOI.

Well yeah, but that's not exactly a high bar to jump over.

- BiggE

If it's actually a height thing and not a metaphor, Martel might not be able to jump over it...

If it's actually a height thing and not a metaphor, Martel might not be able to jump over it...
- dragonoffrost

That's fine, but you're not making a team to play a game of shinny, you have to construct a team to play a certain system. Within that system, players have to perform certain roles. It's up to the coach and GM to determine what those roles should be and the player than best suits them.

For example, as good as he was in Philly, if you had a team full of Danny Briere's, you'd never win a game because the other team would basically be playing 5-on-2 whenever they had the puck.
- jmatchett383

I understand that.