You're mistaken. He had a good shot, he just didn't use it enough.


- Unholy_Goalie

Even the worst hitters hit a home run once in a while. But it doesn’t change anything. Kaberle had a weak shot.

He played too many big minutes and you're ignoring the offense he brings. Your hate-on for Gardiner has made you less and less objective on the topic.
- Unholy_Goalie

Nope, i saw 4 years ago that he had no hockey IQ, posted it on here consistently. I also said he would never learn to play defence. He's a ticking time bomb in the d-zone.

He needs to go just like Phaneuf needed to go.

Nope, i saw 4 years ago that he had no hockey IQ, posted it on here consistently. I also said he would never learn to play defence. He's a ticking time bomb in the d-zone.

He needs to go just like Phaneuf needed to go.
- LeafMan

The Leafs don’t have a replacement for Gardiner.

Nope, i saw 4 years ago that he had no hockey IQ, posted it on here consistently. I also said he would never learn to play defence. He's a ticking time bomb in the d-zone.

He needs to go just like Phaneuf needed to go.
- LeafMan

That's part of the reason why you're not being objective because "you said it 4 years ago" and now you're trying to confirm it even though it misrepresents the whole picture.

Gardiner is nowhere near the problem that Phaneuf was. Not even close. Gardiner produces way more offence, can actually skate, among the leaders in stretch passes completed, way younger and way cheaper. The only similarity he shares with Phaneuf is that he's not a #1 D and he can't play big, hard minutes without making errors.

The problem isn't the player, it's the lack of any other options and forcing him to play above his head. He's not a top pairing guy and yet he played the most minutes of all the defenders. That's a problem but it's not Gardiner's problem.

Even the worst hitters hit a home run once in a while. But it doesn’t change anything. Kaberle had a weak shot.
- shack67

If you're going to compare him to a baseball player, he's like Ichiro. If he swung for the fences, he'd have more home runs but he'd sacrifice his average. Kaberle should have shot the puck more but it's silly to suggest he couldn't shoot because he obviously could.

The Leafs don’t have a replacement for Gardiner.
- shack67

I rather have a sound responsible Dman with 20 less points, those are the types you get far in the playoffs with.

I rather have a sound responsible Dman with 20 less points, those are the type you get far in the playoffs with.
- LeafMan

That's what they said about Justin Schultz. And then he won two Cups with Pittsburgh. Larry Murphy, two with Detroit. Bob Rouse and Jamie Macoun won two Cups with Detroit too. They were good in Toronto but they didn't have Lidstrom in Toronto.

It's not the player as much as it's how you use him. You put any offensive defender in the wrong situation and he's going to look like poop. You use him properly, he pays off big time.

If you're going to compare him to a baseball player, he's like Ichiro. If he swung for the fences, he'd have more home runs but he'd sacrifice his average. Kaberle should have shot the puck more but it's silly to suggest he couldn't shoot because he obviously could.
- Unholy_Goalie

Kaberle had a weak shot. He didn’t shoot much for that reason. You’re saying he passed to weaker shooters because he didn’t like to shoot. I can only surmise that you were really young when he was in his prime and not remembering correctly. His shot sucked.

Kaberle had a weak shot. He didn’t shoot much for that reason. You’re saying he passed to weaker shooters because he didn’t like to shoot. I can only surmise that you were really young when he was in his prime and not remembering correctly. His shot sucked.
- shack67

Passed to weaker shooters? He had Sundin, McCabe, Mogilny etc. who all had better shots than he did. But that doesn't mean he couldn't shoot, he just chose not to more often than not. I remember Kaberle just fine, his problem wasn't his ability, it was his decision making in regards to his shot.

I rather have a sound responsible Dman with 20 less points, those are the types you get far in the playoffs with.
- LeafMan

I’d like to have a better defense too but do you think the Leafs make the playoffs without Gardiner? He put up alot of points down the stretch.

Passed to weaker shooters? He had Sundin, McCabe, Mogilny etc. who all had better shots than he did. But that doesn't mean he couldn't shoot, he just chose not to more often than not. I remember Kaberle just fine, his problem wasn't his ability, it was his decision making in regards to his shot.
- Unholy_Goalie

He was one of the most cerebral players in the league. There was nothing wrong with his decision making. He didn’t shoot because his shot sucked.

He was one of the most cerebral players in the league. There was nothing wrong with his decision making. He didn’t shoot because his shot sucked.
- shack67

See the video at the top of the page. Clearly, it didn't.

He was one of the most cerebral players in the league. There was nothing wrong with his decision making. He didn’t shoot because his shot sucked.
- shack67

his slapshot was ok, his wrist shot wasn't that good but that's because he played with a short stick if I am not mistaken

his slapshot was ok, his wrist shot wasn't that good but that's because he played with a short stick if I am not mistaken
- Symba007

And because he liked to pass so much, probably not very whipy either, depending on his preferences.

Anybody ripping on Matthews right now is (frank)ing stupid. At 20 years old, he's so far ahead of where he should be it's crazy. There's definitely better players like McDavid but he's at the top of his class in his age range. In five years, when the old guard of superstars are declining or outright gone, Matthews will be among the leaders. He lost a battle to a 32 year old Selke nominee with two elite wingers. That's prime Bergeron vs. sophomore Matthews. The circumstances matter.
- Unholy_Goalie

Less bumhole required in your post.

Sorry, but he deserves to be criticized for disappearing. Some of us have ALL ALONG allowed for the fact that he might be injured.

Do you honestly remember him fighting through any checks, making great plays that other people messed up, digging in the corners, forcing turnovers, being nearly invincible in the defensive zone, hitting a bunch of posts, causing Rask to make highlight reel saves? I remember lots of Leafs out there, but very little of Matthews.

I am not comparing him to some unrealistic view of a 20 year old. I am comparing him to the standards he has already established for himself since he entered the league that he utterly failed to live up to. Some drop-off is expected, almost complete disappearance is not.

So seriously dude, (frank) off with the blanket statements about other people's intelligence because their opinion differs from yours.

What the (frank) is wrong with you.

He played too many big minutes and you're ignoring the offense he brings. Your hate-on for Gardiner has made you less and less objective on the topic.
- Unholy_Goalie

He's the softest of a very soft defense, they need to get bigger and stronger.

He's the softest of a very soft defense, they need to get bigger and stronger.
- bobbyisno1

I fully agree, the Alzner for Gardiner and a turd is gaining steam

He's the softest of a very soft defense, they need to get bigger and stronger.
- bobbyisno1

He's a box of (frank)ing chocolates.

One game he looks like he should be a 1/2 Dman and the next game he looks like he needs a couple more seasons in the A to learn the game.

Sometimes it isn't *all* his fault. Andersen poop the bed on a few goals last night and the forwards disappeared in the 3rd... but he was definitely a large part of the problem.

Less bumhole required in your post.

Sorry, but he deserves to be criticized for disappearing. Some of us have ALL ALONG allowed for the fact that he might be injured.
- Aetherial

No he doesn't. He's 20. Injured or not, he's still way ahead of schedule.

Do you honestly remember him fighting through any checks, making great plays that other people messed up, digging in the corners, forcing turnovers, being nearly invincible in the defensive zone, hitting a bunch of posts, causing Rask to make highlight reel saves? I remember lots of Leafs out there, but very little of Matthews.

You are completely ignoring the facts, so I'll make them very direct and simple.

Bergeron, in his prime, Selke winner, Cup winner, flanked by Marchand and Pastrnak, combining to create arguably the best line in hockey. Plus Chara.

VS.

Two third liners and a 20 year old sophomore.

Are you still having trouble understanding how that's a gigantic hill to climb?

I am not comparing him to some unrealistic view of a 20 year old. I am comparing him to the standards he has already established for himself since he entered the league that he utterly failed to live up to. Some drop-off is expected, almost complete disappearance is not.

It's definitely an unrealistic view of a 20 year old. What standards has he already established for himself? He's still a kid. This picture you're painting is inaccurate. You make it seem like he has a track record like Crosby and choked. Fact is, he's going to face challenges. Just because he doesn't produce exactly the same numbers as he did last year doesn't mean he deserves to be poop on. He's (frank)ing 20. I don't know how else to explain that.

So seriously dude, (frank) off with the blanket statements about other people's intelligence because their opinion differs from yours.

What the (frank) is wrong with you.

(frank) off with poopting on the best prospect this team has had in 30 years without a good reason.

Less bumhole required in your post.

Sorry, but he deserves to be criticized for disappearing. Some of us have ALL ALONG allowed for the fact that he might be injured.

Do you honestly remember him fighting through any checks, making great plays that other people messed up, digging in the corners, forcing turnovers, being nearly invincible in the defensive zone, hitting a bunch of posts, causing Rask to make highlight reel saves? I remember lots of Leafs out there, but very little of Matthews.

I am not comparing him to some unrealistic view of a 20 year old. I am comparing him to the standards he has already established for himself since he entered the league that he utterly failed to live up to. Some drop-off is expected, almost complete disappearance is
So seriously dude, (frank) off with the blanket statements about other people's intelligence because their opinion differs from yours.

What the (frank) is wrong with you.
- Aetherial

Yeah maybe banged up. Or the Bruins really did a job on him. I think he was a plus in game seven. Out against a giant preying mantis every shift didn’t help either.

No he doesn't. He's 20. Injured or not, he's still way ahead of schedule.



You are completely ignoring the facts, so I'll make them very direct and simple.

Bergeron, in his prime, Selke winner, Cup winner, flanked by Marchand and Pastrnak, combining to create arguably the best line in hockey. Plus Chara.

VS.

Two third liners and a 20 year old sophomore.

Are you still having trouble understanding how that's a gigantic hill to climb?



It's definitely an unrealistic view of a 20 year old. What standards has he already established for himself? He's still a kid. This picture you're painting is inaccurate. You make it seem like he has a track record like Crosby and choked. Fact is, he's going to face challenges. Just because he doesn't produce exactly the same numbers as he did last year means he deserves to be poop on. He's (frank)ing 20. I don't know how else to explain that.



(frank) off with poopting on the best prospect this team has had in 30 years without a good reason.
- Unholy_Goalie

So the "schedule" for Matthews a guy who already led the league in 5v5 goals is the same as for other 20 year olds. There is only one schedule.

As for the rest... I didn't even read it.

I'm not playing the UG game, and falling into a pedantic never ending argument with you because, frankly, there is something seriously wrong with you emotionally. Everyone here knows you will just dance and dodge and completely lack the ability to follow a coherent argument no matter how well thought out. So you just go to bed with a big smile on your face, believing you somehow "bested" a whole bunch of other people. Fill your boots.

Instead, I will just continuously point out when and why you have been a (frank)ing bumhole, and leave it at that.

Yeah maybe banged up. Or the Bruins really did a job on him. I think he was a plus in game seven. Out against a giant preying mantis every shift didn’t help either.
- shack67

No it certainly doesn't... and while Chara's game has lost a lot, it still translates pretty damn well into the playoffs.

Even at his age, and declining footspeed, could the Leafs ever have used that guy on our team!

I think the thing that gets me most is I was surprised. I *still* think he had to be injured. We have never seen anyone so completely get the better of him, and other Leafs seemed to be "ok"... not great, but just ok.

We will probably never know exactly what happened, and maybe it is as simple as inexperience, or maybe there are a bunch of things that added up the wrong way?

So the "schedule" for Matthews a guy who already led the league in 5v5 goals is the same as for other 20 year olds. There is only one schedule.
- Aetherial

Bergeron. Best line in hockey. Chara. VS. Two third liners and a 20 year old sophomore.

But yeah, there's only one schedule; Matthews over comes everything and wins the Cup by himself or he's a bust.

As for the rest... I didn't even read it.

Explains why you're having trouble understanding why hating on Matthews is not only unwarranted but also irrational.

I'm not playing the UG game, and falling into a pedantic never ending argument with you because, frankly, there is something seriously wrong with you emotionally. Everyone here knows you will just dance and dodge and completely lack the ability to follow a coherent argument no matter how well thought out. So you just go to bed with a big smile on your face, believing you somehow "bested" a whole bunch of other people. Fill your boots.

Instead, I will just continuously point out when and why you have been a (frank)ing bumhole, and leave it at that.

Same old cop out, attack me personally, avoid the facts, vindicate yourself with the group think. Good job.

I fully agree, the Alzner for Gardiner and a turd is gaining steam
- Symba007

I agree. You should not post such nonsense. No more habotages.

Bergeron. Best line in hockey. Chara. VS. Two third liners and a 20 year old sophomore.

But yeah, there's only one schedule; Matthews over comes everything and wins the Cup by himself or he's a bust.



Explains why you're having trouble understanding why hating on Matthews is not only unwarranted but irrational.



Same old cop out, attack me personally, avoid the facts, vindicate yourself with the group think. Good job.
- Unholy_Goalie

...you are too far gone to even recognize who started the personal attacks