total disappearance, zero pushback.

We will wait to see if he is injured.

Other people pushed through it UG. Was Matthews the ONLY guy being smothered?

Also... people can't have it both ways. Don't talk about Boston's first line smothering him while someone else talks about how defensively responsible he was... if he was playing against Boston's first line, he did next to nothing on the defensive end either.

Nylander IMPROVED away from him That is a fact. Hyman was one of the best Leafs forwards... FACT. The problem on that line was Matthews.
- Aetherial

Is this a bust argument?

Now that i can support

At one point in the season, yes, they showed a stat that Gardiner had completed the most stretch passes in the entire NHL. He's definitely among the leaders, if not #1.

I'm not saying he's a legit #1 D and give him an 8 year deal, but if you get rid of him, the positives he brings to the team aren't easily replaced.

Like I said, Carlson at 7.5 million and trade Gardiner? That might work. But just get rid of Gardiner and not replacing him? Not going to end well.

And Babcock likes Gardiner too, don't forget that.
- Unholy_Goalie

Umm no of course you would have to replace him.
Move him for another D

In the off-season, Leafs need two centres and two D men to fill out the roster

Bozak, Moore and Plec probably gone, need two to replace.

Komarov and JVR probably gone, Leafs have wingers in the system to replace.

Polak and Gardiner will probably be gone, need one to replace, Borgman promoted.

Again, best shutdown center in the league, who has two elite wingers with him vs. a 20 year old in his 2nd ever playoff series. He wasn't invisible because he sucked. He was invisible because they smothered him. He had no help on his wings in comparison to Bergeron. And on top of all that, his shoulder could be (frank)ed up.

If it turns out he's healthy and in 5 years from now he's still not producing in the playoffs, even against poopty opponents, then we can worry. But right now, the criticism can stay at home because it was a giant uphill battle to begin with.
- Unholy_Goalie

Agreed. Who knows, maybe he is actually injured, hard to know unless they tell us. As for the rest though, spot on. He'll learn from this, and hopefully he'll either get better linemates, or the ones he has will also learn and improve.

total disappearance, zero pushback.

We will wait to see if he is injured.

Other people pushed through it UG. Was Matthews the ONLY guy being smothered?

Also... people can't have it both ways. Don't talk about Boston's first line smothering him while someone else talks about how defensively responsible he was... if he was playing against Boston's first line, he did next to nothing on the defensive end either.

Nylander IMPROVED away from him That is a fact. Hyman was one of the best Leafs forwards... FACT. The problem on that line was Matthews.
- Aetherial

Jesus (frank).

Easy. Borgman.
Dermott has shown how valuable he is
- PatC80

Borgman is young Polak. Doesn't bring the same game with skating and passing.

Dermott is good but it'll be a few years before his output is as high as Gardiner.

Remember, progress isn't linear. Dermott could be total poop next year. These young guys have ups and downs. Gardiner had a very good rookie season and then found himself with the Marlies the next year.

I’ve calmed down a bit. (frank) GARDIENR IN HIS STUPID (frank)ING FACE.



The team is still young, and will get better.


Oh, and (frank) JAKE (frank)ING ONE DIMENSIONAL GARDINER.

yup yup yup.

Dermott's a better skater as well.

Borgman returns.

Add some experience on the right side - maybe find another Hainsey type.

and keep Polak as #7.
- BorjeFan4Ever

Nah you can’t replace 25 mins in playoff hockey with a rookie.

McAvoy has been great all year but it was Chara that was the anchor.

Gardiner takes heavy minutes. You cant expect dermott to step into that role.

Remember how excited everyone was when we got lupul and gardiner? Gardiner was the prize at the time. Dermott and gardine are very similar.

Maybe eventually, but not immediately, it's not a guarantee. It's like saying Kapanen can replace JVR. Yeah, maybe eventually but anybody expecting him to score 36 goals next year? I wouldn't.

And then you need to replace Dermott lower on the depth chart too.
- Unholy_Goalie

With the leafs cap space this summer, they need to add to Gardiner. Not replace him

Again, best shutdown center in the league, who has two elite wingers with him vs. a 20 year old in his 2nd ever playoff series. He wasn't invisible because he sucked. He was invisible because they smothered him. He had no help on his wings in comparison to Bergeron. And on top of all that, his shoulder could be (frank)ed up.

If it turns out he's healthy and in 5 years from now he's still not producing in the playoffs, even against poopty opponents, then we can worry. But right now, the criticism can stay at home because it was a giant uphill battle to begin with.
- Unholy_Goalie

Yup

He should make less than Pastrnak.

Matthews gets 10, Marner gets 8 and Nylander gets 6. YES

If you sign Tavares or even Evander Kane, consider trading him as part of a package for a legit #1 D under the age of 25.

NEVER get a 1D for a perimeter winger

- Unholy_Goalie

Borgman is young Polak. Doesn't bring the same game with skating and passing.

Dermott is good but it'll be a few years before his output is as high as Gardiner.

Remember, progress isn't linear. Dermott could be total poop next year. These young guys have ups and downs. Gardiner had a very good rookie season and then found himself with the Marlies the next year.
- Unholy_Goalie

Gardiner needs to be the 3 or 4....like Krug on the Bruins.

Right now he is the 2, sometimes even the 1 of Reilly is off his game. He's not at that level.

I don't get the hate on him, he's a 4 million dollar defensmen playing in a 7 million dollar D role....he needs help.

In the off-season, Leafs need two centres and two D men to fill out the roster

Bozak, Moore and Plec probably gone, need two to replace.

Komarov and JVR probably gone, Leafs have wingers in the system to replace.

Polak and Gardiner will probably be gone, need one to replace, Borgman promoted.
- LeafMan

I'd resign Bozak, if he's willing to take a discount.

Maybe eventually, but not immediately, it's not a guarantee. It's like saying Kapanen can replace JVR. Yeah, maybe eventually but anybody expecting him to score 36 goals next year? I wouldn't.

And then you need to replace Dermott lower on the depth chart too.
- Unholy_Goalie

Quite positive Leafs will try to sign Hamhuis on a 2y deal this off-season.

With the leafs cap space this summer, they need to add to Gardiner. Not replace him
- Santo_44

Yep, gardiner isn’t going anywhere

Gardiner needs to be the 3 or 4....like Krug on the Bruins.

Right now he is the 2, sometimes even the 1 of Reilly is off his game. He's not at that level.

I don't get the hate on him, he's a 4 million dollar defensmen playing in a 7 million dollar D role....he needs help.
- Santo_44

He is $4m 4D & lack of top D is not his fault

total disappearance, zero pushback.

We will wait to see if he is injured.

Other people pushed through it UG. Was Matthews the ONLY guy being smothered?

Also... people can't have it both ways. Don't talk about Boston's first line smothering him while someone else talks about how defensively responsible he was... if he was playing against Boston's first line, he did next to nothing on the defensive end either.

Nylander IMPROVED away from him That is a fact. Hyman was one of the best Leafs forwards... FACT. The problem on that line was Matthews.
- Aetherial

Nylander improved because he wasn't forced to play against the top competition anymore. The focus would have still been to shutdown Matthews. You think the Bruins are stupid? They know exactly who the top target was. This is why Marner was at an advantage because he wasn't the top focus and he scored because of it.

Hyman was digging but he wasn't dangerous enough that a team had to say to themselves "Okay, we have to shut him down too or he'll burn us".

The Bruins have Marchand, Bergeron and Pastrnak all together. If you over compensate on one, the other two burn you. Matthews didn't have that luxury. They could smother Matthews and say to themselves "Who gives a (frank) if Hyman gets a shot on net"?

You're over reacting a bit here. He's 20 years old. He showed up last year. He might be hurt this year. He played against the best line in hockey and had little to no help doing it. This is borderline blaming Sundin for the Leafs never making it deeper in the playoffs even though he had stiffs on his wings for 80% of his career.

Quite positive Leafs will try to sign Hamhuis on a 2y deal this off-season.
- MaximusAurelius

3D at best & thats pushing it.
Save the money IMO

In the off-season, Leafs need two centres and two D men to fill out the roster

Bozak, Moore and Plec probably gone, need two to replace.

Komarov and JVR probably gone, Leafs have wingers in the system to replace.

Polak and Gardiner will probably be gone, need one to replace, Borgman promoted.
- LeafMan

At this point, I’d consider bringing Pleks back. He stepped up big time.

Tavares is the dream signing still. Don’t want to throw 8M+ at Carlson, and I think that’s what it’d take.

I don’t know if you trade Gardiner. You just need to add someone else so you can push him down the line up... he’s too hot and cold to be relied upon.

I’m surprised you want to get rid of Polak.

Yep, gardiner isn’t going wnuwhere
- bryant

1A-Reilly
1B-?
3-Gards
4-Z
5-Hainsey
6-Polak(other options too)

If they can get themselves a 1B they are set on D. Trading Gards just creates another hole.

Watched the goals again


Freddie (frank)ing Toskala

Tardiner was -6 in the series....-5 tonight...

With the leafs cap space this summer, they need to add to Gardiner. Not replace him
- Santo_44

No, replace. Carlson at 8 million, Gardiner at eventually 6+ million and Zaitsev at 4.5 million. Not a good situation. It's one or the other, not both.

Nah you can’t replace 25 mins in playoff hockey with a rookie.

McAvoy has been great all year but it was Chara that was the anchor.

Gardiner takes heavy minutes. You cant expect dermott to step into that role.

Remember how excited everyone was when we got lupul and gardiner? Gardiner was the prize at the time. Dermott and gardine are very similar.
- bryant

Dermott is a much higher IQ player than Gardiner.

1A-Reilly
1B-?
3-Gards
4-Z
5-Hainsey
6-Polak(other options too)

If they can get themselves a 1B they are set on D. Trading Gards just creates another hole.
- Santo_44

Dermott?