Can you (or anyone else) offer me an example of teams that you believe can and do draft past the 1st round? I have an idea I want to explore.
- MaximumBone

Offhand Tampa Winnipeg and Pittsburgh all have a large quantity of their own drafted products playing on their teams.

Can you (or anyone else) offer me an example of teams that you believe can and do draft past the 1st round? I have an idea I want to explore.
- MaximumBone

Tampa - Point (3rd round), Namestikov (late 1st) Palat (7th) Killorn (3rd round)
Pittsburgh - Guentzel (3rd) Rust (3rd) Maata (late first) Murray (3rd)
Winnipeg - not as many low picks as I thought, just a whole bunch of players in the 1st round from 2-15 overall. Connor Hellebuyck was a 5th.

Was JB driving a white van in Toronto today??
- Iggysbff

Blacked out windows in front of an elementary school ?

Can you (or anyone else) offer me an example of teams that you believe can and do draft past the 1st round? I have an idea I want to explore.
- MaximumBone

Calgary, Tampa and Nashville off the top of my head.

Tampa - Point (3rd round), Namestikov (late 1st) Palat (7th) Killorn (3rd round)
Pittsburgh - Guentzel (3rd) Rust (3rd) Maata (late first) Murray (3rd)
Winnipeg - not as many low picks as I thought, just a whole bunch of players in the 1st round from 2-15 overall. Connor Hellebuyck was a 5th.
- freelancer

Calgary, Tampa and Nashville off the top of my head.
- Wildschwein

Okay, but all those picks are from before 2015. If the point of Schwein's or anyone else's critique is to deride Edmonton's drafting historically, then that's fair. However, the sins of the predecessor shouldn't be lumped on the present day management team. Despite all the rest of their flaws, we cannot claim with any factual basis that Chiarelli's drafting is bad.

Let's take one of those 3 teams you mentioned who you assert are among the leaders at converting lower picks into NHL contributors and their draft history since Chiarelli took over in Edmonton:

Tampa in 2015 drafted:

2nd: Mitchell Stephens and Matthew Spencer
3rd: Dennis Yan and Anthony Cirelli
4th: Joone Tammela and Mathieu Joseph
5th: Ryan Zuhlsdorf
6th: Kris Oldham and Bokondji Imama

From this draft, I can state with confidence that Stephens, Yan, Cirelli and Joseph have exhibited solid-to-excellent development and appear on track for NHL futures. Currently sitting at 18 NHL games (all by Cirelli) and 268 in-organization AHL games for 9 total picks.

4 picks of 9 = 44.4% conversion into positive arrows

Tampa in 2016 drafted:

2nd: Libor Hajek, Boris Katchouk and Taylor Raddysh
3rd: Connor Ingram
4th: Ross Colton
5th: Christopher Paquette
6th: Oleg Sosunov
7th: Otto Somppi and Ryan Lohin

From this draft, I can state with confidence that Hajek, Katchouk, Raddysh and Ingram have exhibited solid-to-good development and appear on track for possible NHL futures. None are guarantees and none have played NHL games and only 43 total in-organization AHL games over 9 picks, but that's to be expected.

4 picks of 9 = 44.4% conversion into positive arrows

Tampa in 2017 drafted:

2nd: Alexander Volkov
3rd: Alexei Lipanov
6th: Nicklaus Perbix and Cole Guttman
7th: Samuel Walker

From this draft, I can state withOUT confidence that Volkov and Lipanov have exhibited reasonable levels of development. Volkov is an overager that jumped right into the AHL and Lipanov struggled after being traded away from Barrie (and Svechnikov and Suzuki). Neither get a glowing review but both showed signs of positive development. Once again, zero NHL games and 75 AHL games (overager) over 5 picks.

2 picks of 5 = 40% conversion into positive arrows


To compare that with Edmonton's (I'll do it more concisely this time):


2015: Jones and Bear have shown good-to-excellent development and have played a combine 98 AHL games and 18 NHL games in a draft where Edmonton picked 5 times outside the 1st round.

2 picks of 5 = 40% conversion into positive arrows

2016: Benson, Berglund and McPhee have shown solid-to-good development playing a combined 5 AHL games in a draft where Edmonton 8 players outside of the 1st round.

3 picks of 8 = 37.5% conversion into positive arrows

2017: Skinner, Samorukov, Safin and Maksimov have shown solid-to-good development (zero overagers) with 14 AHL games played in a draft where Edmonton drafted 6 players outside of the 1st round.

4 picks of 6 = 66.7% conversion into positive arrows


Obviously this method is highly subjective but I chose two teams who I follow actively in order to remove as much bias as I could. The point I'm trying to make here is that it's unfair to pass judgement on Chiarelli and Co.'s drafting when even teams that are viewed as among the best at drafting don't have any significant lead in "positive arrows".

The one point I think you can definitely make is that Chairelli should lay off trading away so many of his picks as his staff seem to make solid and well-informed bets. Losing the (1st and) 2nd from Reinhart, the 2nd and 3rd from Talbot, the 2nd for hiring Chiarelli and the 3rd for hiring McLellan hurts what would be a much deeper system based on existing conversion rates.

Was JB driving a white van in Toronto today??
- Iggysbff

(frank) that. Who the (frank) wants to drive in Toronto

Edit: I just saw what happened... (frank)ing terrible.

Would you guys play McDavid full time on the wing?

Upside you wouldn't have to worry about him being defensive. Allowing him to focus more on offense. Ideally you'd play him with Nuge


Downside is he wouldn't get as many takeaways. And probably other things that I can't think about.

Would you guys play McDavid full time on the wing?

Upside you wouldn't have to worry about him being defensive. Allowing him to focus more on offense. Ideally you'd play him with Nuge


Downside is he wouldn't get as many takeaways. And probably other things that I can't think about.
- Oilers4Life14

No. His natural position is C, he drives the play better from the center of the ice and has more options to attack the line with. Beyond that, having him on the defensive side of the puck is especially valuable when the coaches remember that having him swing low regularly leads to positive things happening for the team.

Last year, all semblance of puck support was abandoned due to Todd wanting to play a system that told his forwards to blow the zone early and never have his wingers support the breakout play from anywhere but the high-zone boards. Embarrassingly out of touch.

No. His natural position is C, he drives the play better from the center of the ice and has more options to attack the line with. Beyond that, having him on the defensive side of the puck is especially valuable when the coaches remember that having him swing low regularly leads to positive things happening for the team.

Last year, all semblance of puck support was abandoned due to Todd wanting to play a system that told his forwards to blow the zone early and never have his wingers support the breakout play from anywhere but the high-zone boards. Embarrassingly out of touch.
- MaximumBone

I'm not saying I'd do it. Was just thinking about it earlier.

Agree or Disagree: Matthews is better defensively than McDavid

Okay, but all those picks are from before 2015. If the point of Schwein's or anyone else's critique is to deride Edmonton's drafting historically, then that's fair. However, the sins of the predecessor shouldn't be lumped on the present day management team. Despite all the rest of their flaws, we cannot claim with any factual basis that Chiarelli's drafting is bad.

Let's take one of those 3 teams you mentioned who you assert are among the leaders at converting lower picks into NHL contributors and their draft history since Chiarelli took over in Edmonton:

Tampa in 2015 drafted:

2nd: Mitchell Stephens and Matthew Spencer
3rd: Dennis Yan and Anthony Cirelli
4th: Joone Tammela and Mathieu Joseph
5th: Ryan Zuhlsdorf
6th: Kris Oldham and Bokondji Imama

From this draft, I can state with confidence that Stephens, Yan, Cirelli and Joseph have exhibited solid-to-excellent development and appear on track for NHL futures. Currently sitting at 18 NHL games (all by Cirelli) and 268 in-organization AHL games for 9 total picks.

4 picks of 9 = 44.4% conversion into positive arrows

Tampa in 2016 drafted:

2nd: Libor Hajek, Boris Katchouk and Taylor Raddysh
3rd: Connor Ingram
4th: Ross Colton
5th: Christopher Paquette
6th: Oleg Sosunov
7th: Otto Somppi and Ryan Lohin

From this draft, I can state with confidence that Hajek, Katchouk, Raddysh and Ingram have exhibited solid-to-good development and appear on track for possible NHL futures. None are guarantees and none have played NHL games and only 43 total in-organization AHL games over 9 picks, but that's to be expected.

4 picks of 9 = 44.4% conversion into positive arrows

Tampa in 2017 drafted:

2nd: Alexander Volkov
3rd: Alexei Lipanov
6th: Nicklaus Perbix and Cole Guttman
7th: Samuel Walker

From this draft, I can state withOUT confidence that Volkov and Lipanov have exhibited reasonable levels of development. Volkov is an overager that jumped right into the AHL and Lipanov struggled after being traded away from Barrie (and Svechnikov and Suzuki). Neither get a glowing review but both showed signs of positive development. Once again, zero NHL games and 75 AHL games (overager) over 5 picks.

2 picks of 5 = 40% conversion into positive arrows


To compare that with Edmonton's (I'll do it more concisely this time):


2015: Jones and Bear have shown good-to-excellent development and have played a combine 98 AHL games and 18 NHL games in a draft where Edmonton picked 5 times outside the 1st round.

2 picks of 5 = 40% conversion into positive arrows

2016: Benson, Berglund and McPhee have shown solid-to-good development playing a combined 5 AHL games in a draft where Edmonton 8 players outside of the 1st round.

3 picks of 8 = 37.5% conversion into positive arrows

2017: Skinner, Samorukov, Safin and Maksimov have shown solid-to-good development (zero overagers) with 14 AHL games played in a draft where Edmonton drafted 6 players outside of the 1st round.

4 picks of 6 = 66.7% conversion into positive arrows


Obviously this method is highly subjective but I chose two teams who I follow actively in order to remove as much bias as I could. The point I'm trying to make here is that it's unfair to pass judgement on Chiarelli and Co.'s drafting when even teams that are viewed as among the best at drafting don't have any significant lead in "positive arrows".

The one point I think you can definitely make is that Chairelli should lay off trading away so many of his picks as his staff seem to make solid and well-informed bets. Losing the (1st and) 2nd from Reinhart, the 2nd and 3rd from Talbot, the 2nd for hiring Chiarelli and the 3rd for hiring McLellan hurts what would be a much deeper system based on existing conversion rates.
- MaximumBone

Interesting take. I must admit my statement was based mostly on the performance of scouts prior to the Chiarelli takeover.

Interesting take. I must admit my statement was based mostly on the performance of scouts prior to the Chiarelli takeover.
- Wildschwein

As was mine. It's too early to be mad at Chiarelli for his drafting record here. Keith Gretzky actually was in charge in Boston when a number of their players (Pasternak and Hamilton) were drafted.

I was speaking more on other organizations ability to have their rosters full of their own drafted players out of first round.

Interesting take. I must admit my statement was based mostly on the performance of scouts prior to the Chiarelli takeover.
- Wildschwein

One thing I give Chiarelli credit for, doing better in the late rounds compared to previous years.

Would you guys play McDavid full time on the wing?

Upside you wouldn't have to worry about him being defensive. Allowing him to focus more on offense. Ideally you'd play him with Nuge


Downside is he wouldn't get as many takeaways. And probably other things that I can't think about.
- Oilers4Life14

Not even a little bit. His ability to play both sides of the puck and his speed makes him a dominant centre. As far as points go he led the league with 108 points even with a flu that had him 15 pounds under his regular and also with Lucic as an anchor I think the offense is fine with McDavid

Interesting take. I must admit my statement was based mostly on the performance of scouts prior to the Chiarelli takeover.
- Wildschwein

As was mine. It's too early to be mad at Chiarelli for his drafting record here. Keith Gretzky actually was in charge in Boston when a number of their players (Pasternak and Hamilton) were drafted.

I was speaking more on other organizations ability to have their rosters full of their own drafted players out of first round.
- freelancer

Fair enough. I figured as much but it was definitely a thought experiment I wanted to do anyway to breakdown how his drafting has fared when pitted against a top-tier team. Whether he's actually turned it all around or not will take a few more years, but early returns look better than some other stretches of time.

One thing I give Chiarelli credit for, doing better in the late rounds compared to previous years.
- Oilers4Life14

I remember vividly day 2 of the '11 draft when the Oilers took Musil. I breathed a sigh of relief they didn't pick up Saad. I also did a WTF double take. But then again, my (frank)ing pens passed on our homeboy too.

I remember vividly day 2 of the '11 draft when the Oilers took Musil. I breathed a sigh of relief they didn't pick up Saad. But then again, my (frank)ing pens passed on our homeboy too.
- DeflatedPucks

I vividly remember when they passed on my boy Vinny Trocheck in 2011 (instead grabbing Samu (frank)ing Perhonen) and then followed it up by drafting Mitch goddam, mother(frank)ing Moroz instead of grabbing my boy Damon Severson...

It still hurts me to think about

Rumor going around that with Trent Yawney not being resigned by Anaheim that he might be of interest to Edmonton. He was their AHL coach in the early goings of Lindholm, Vatanen and Manson and has been an assistant at the NHL-level running the defense and PK. During his tenure, Anaheim's PK has ranked 15th (81.0%) in 2014-15, 1st (87.2%) in 2015-16, 4th (84.7%) in 2016-17 and 5th (83.2%) this past season. If nothing else, he has a history of running successful PK units and seems to be able to teach players how to do it along with a track record of doing so with young D corps.

If the rumblings prove to be true, this would sync up with the rumors that Jim Johnson has been let go and would represent a good addition

While I'm looking at coaches, I think the team should look at poaching Ray Bennett from the Avs to take Woodcroft's role. The guy consistently led the Blues' PP to top-10 finishes in the league and did so once again with Colorado this year. Nothing but success. Special teams are a coaching thing; if the players aren't executing, then either your system doesn't fit your players or you're not teaching it right.

I vividly remember when they passed on my boy Vinny Trocheck in 2011 (instead grabbing Samu (frank)ing Perhonen) and then followed it up by drafting Mitch goddam, mother(frank)ing Moroz instead of grabbing my boy Damon Severson...

It still hurts me to think about
- MaximumBone

U should be a gm bro

I vividly remember when they passed on my boy Vinny Trocheck in 2011 (instead grabbing Samu (frank)ing Perhonen) and then followed it up by drafting Mitch goddam, mother(frank)ing Moroz instead of grabbing my boy Damon Severson...

It still hurts me to think about
- MaximumBone

U should be a gm bro

Rumor going around that with Trent Yawney not being resigned by Anaheim that he might be of interest to Edmonton. He was their AHL coach in the early goings of Lindholm, Vatanen and Manson and has been an assistant at the NHL-level running the defense and PK. During his tenure, Anaheim's PK has ranked 15th (81.0%) in 2014-15, 1st (87.2%) in 2015-16, 4th (84.7%) in 2016-17 and 5th (83.2%) this past season. If nothing else, he has a history of running successful PK units and seems to be able to teach players how to do it along with a track record of doing so with young D corps.

If the rumblings prove to be true, this would sync up with the rumors that Jim Johnson has been let go and would represent a good addition

While I'm looking at coaches, I think the team should look at poaching Ray Bennett from the Avs to take Woodcroft's role. The guy consistently led the Blues' PP to top-10 finishes in the league and did so once again with Colorado this year. Nothing but success. Special teams are a coaching thing; if the players aren't executing, then either your system doesn't fit your players or you're not teaching it right.
- MaximumBone

Yawney was a pretty terrible head coach.

Maybe as an assistant.

Would you guys play McDavid full time on the wing?

Upside you wouldn't have to worry about him being defensive. Allowing him to focus more on offense. Ideally you'd play him with Nuge


Downside is he wouldn't get as many takeaways. And probably other things that I can't think about.
- Oilers4Life14

Holy (frank) are you stupid and need to (frank) off until the draft like you said you would.

Yawney was a pretty terrible head coach.

Maybe as an assistant.
- Oilers4Life14

In the NHL, sure he wasn't great but neither was the team he was coaching. The best players on that Blackhawks team he coached were Kyle Calder, Tyler Arnason, Jaroslav Spacek and an early-20s Brent Seabrook- not exactly prime real estate. In the AHL, his team's weren't exceptionally talented either, but he consistently made the playoffs.

As I stated, the point of hiring him would be to take over for Jim Johnson (an assistant).

In the NHL, sure he wasn't great but neither was the team he was coaching. The best players on that Blackhawks team he coached were Kyle Calder, Tyler Arnason, Jaroslav Spacek and an early-20s Brent Seabrook- not exactly prime real estate. In the AHL, his team's weren't exceptionally talented either, but he consistently made the playoffs.

As I stated, the point of hiring him would be to take over for Jim Johnson (an assistant).
- MaximumBone

Hey you take that back. Spacek is the reason the Oilers went so far in 06.

In the NHL, sure he wasn't great but neither was the team he was coaching. The best players on that Blackhawks team he coached were Kyle Calder, Tyler Arnason, Jaroslav Spacek and an early-20s Brent Seabrook- not exactly prime real estate. In the AHL, his team's weren't exceptionally talented either, but he consistently made the playoffs.

As I stated, the point of hiring him would be to take over for Jim Johnson (an assistant).
- MaximumBone

Trent Yawney to replace Jim Johnson

Holy (frank) are you stupid and need to (frank) off until the draft like you said you would.
- leonkennedy

JB’s word is worthless, has no integrity and can’t follow up on his promises. This is precisely we he won’t be hired for our wrestling promotion. That and because he has absolutely nothing to contribute.