lol like anyone is gonna read this
- YuenglingJagr

To sum up: Had they given the casino license to Isle of Capri, Isle of Capri would have put the money into the stadium.

Sure


But what if JT signs somewhere else? Now we don’t have Jake or JT.
- Nucker101

If you did trade Voracek your still only doing it to get a very good return.

To sum up: Had they given the casino license to Isle of Capri, Isle of Capri would have put the money into the stadium.
- jmatchett383

I love the isle of capri

I guarantee you that if that "cheap shot" by G on Hagelin was flipped around you'd be praising Hagelin for that hit, so get outta here with the Giroux is a cheap shotting female dog bs.
- ajw12

I also love reading about the Flyers players "flopping" after the performances in this series by Malkin and Hornqvist.

By expendable I mean a tradeable player to acquire assets. I believe I made that point quite clear that if there are viable trade options that the flyers should go that route as they can fill holes in other areas.
- bird_dog_pa

The team has kids on the roster who will get better, prospects who will step up and lots of cap space. I don't see this team as being deep enough anywhere to wheel and deal, nobody seems to want out. It's always possible something comes their way, like the Schenn deal last year. I wouldn't count on that. They still have 2/3 underperforming contracts up front but finding takers won't be easy. I think they're still in draft/develop/tweak mode.

Pittsburgh posters coming out of the woodwork after a win. Not really doing much to help your cause there buddies.

By expendable I mean a tradeable player to acquire assets. I believe I made that point quite clear that if there are viable trade options that the flyers should go that route as they can fill holes in other areas.
Close to half of Simmonds goals were on the power play. Aside from Giroux from last season most goal scorers score more 5 on 5 goals than power play goals.
Look at Giroux's, Crosby's, Hall's, McKinnon's stats and see that they score more goals at even strength by a decent margin.
With a contract coming up soon that might be in the 5-6 million a year range for a power forward going into his 30s could be better served cap money elsewhere.
- bird_dog_pa

You're comparing Simmonds to star players in the league. A goal is a goal in my book. The Flyers certainly could've used a few PP goals in the Pens series. I think there is merit to a trade but I'm definitely not in the trade him just to trade him group. If Simmonds returns to his normal level of play, 5-6M will be well worth it.

To sum up: Had they given the casino license to Isle of Capri, Isle of Capri would have put the money into the stadium.
- jmatchett383

I read it

I read it
- wcorvette

That was only chapter one

I read it
- wcorvette

Brave of you

I think he brings more to the leadership table than G
- Crushers68

I don't think you can just strip a player of the C after he put the team on his back and got them in the playoffs. Sure he didn't play well in the series, but I'll take the 82 game sample size, over the 6 game sample size. Giroux is the least of the Flyers problems.

On the topic of tanking... isn't that what the Flyers just did this series? Getting outscored 28-15 in a series and getting outscored 18-6 at home is disgraceful.

In all honesty, you should hope the Flyers tank for the next several years. Your top 2 paid players were invisible all series with the exception of Giroux's multiple cheap shots. Hextall should completely blow it up and get rid of everyone except Couturier, Provorov and Patrick.
- MacPatty

Kudos on a brainless post. By tanking I'm referencing the act of losing on purpose.

Now you're embarrassing yourself. He's talking about the 06 07 season where the flyers were last overall and got jvr instead of Kane.
- Hextall271

Thanks for the assist...

Manning to Edmonton.

What are we betting.
- flyer_nutter

I need this in my life.

Therein lies the problem. In order to properly understand the state's funding of the Pens arena, one has to understand the downright crookedness of the casino license awarding process, that is no surprise considering the crookedness that was, is, and will be the future of the state government (much of which comes out of the two biggest cities in the state, especially Philly).

If my memory serves me correct, there were about 12 licenses to be awarded. 11 were to places in the eastern part of the state and only one was to the west (Pittsburgh specifically). Everyone but one person on the six to eight member board that awarded the licenses was from the eastern part of the state.

There were three bidders:
1. Isle of Capri, who offered to completely build the arena and give it to the city as a perpetual revenue generating machine.
2. Harrah's, a favorite due to its executives being friends with Rendell.
3. Majestic Star, who experts gave a 1% chance of winning it, especially due to the fact that they were on the road to bankruptcy at the time of the bid.

For anyone with even the faintest hint of the best interests of the western part of the state in mind, not to mention the best interests of Pittsburgh specifically, the answer to who should have won the bid is obvious. Even if someone is not a Pens fan the fact that Isle of Capri would have literally given the arena to the city as a perpetual money-generating machine should have made their bid automatic, unless one of the others could find some way of topping that. Naturally, the 6-8 member board gave the license to Majestic Star, #3 above.

This begs the all-important question, why? One of the terms the board set at the outset is that at least one of the 12 licenses had to go to a minority owner. The 11 that went to the eastern part of the state did not. I am not sure if any minority bids were placed on these but I suspect that they went to buddies of the crooked politicians in that part of the state. Majestic Star was owned by Don Barden who is a minority and they thus gave the Pittsburgh license to them, irregardless of the fact that the company was heading toward bankruptcy. The company did in fact go bankrupt in 2008 and 75% of Barden's ownership was bought out. The issue was not helped by a western politician, Bill DeWeese of Greene County, who watched the 2006 Super Bowl (Steelers vs. Seahawks) with Barden in Barden's luxury box in Detroit. I had the misfortune to meet him once and he is one of the sleaziest people I have ever come in contact with (I washed my hands right away afterward).

Oh yeah, and that one person on the gaming board from the west was a minority.

The fundamental problem was that the gaming board was an executive board and not just an advisory board. The 6-8 unelected people on it had the power to make binding decisions instead of just being able to propose a plan that required the legislature to vote to approve. Had they done this, likely all of the legislature in the west (on both sides of the aisle) except that assclown in Greene County would have voted it down.

So Rendell's state funding of the arena was a way to "patch up" this mess that his own government created. It is not the fault of the city of Pittsburgh. The city was more the victim than anything.

Also, Lemieux later said that the team would have stayed in the city regardless (yes, he did use this as a reason to push for the arena). The only thing that would have caused the team to actually move was if the NHL did not impose a salary cap, which it did after the 2004-5 lockout. Pittsburgh is too small of a city to compete in an open market with much bigger cities like New York and Philly (as the Pittsburgh Pirates have proven).
- PghPens668771

This was educational, thank you. I learned a lot that I did not know.

That said, saying that the city was victim is dishonest. Much of the Penguins franchise's problems related to poor business management and a declining fanbase when they were largely unsuccessful after the early 90s. The fanbase effectively defected on the team. Much of their financial situation, the need for an arena deal, threat to relocate, imposing of a salary cap, and numerous consecutive top-5 draft picks were a result of this fact. Where they are today is tied very strongly to how bad they were in the 90s, and how much the State and League did to help the franchise stay in Pittsburgh. The past 15+ years have been a perfect storm that has strongly aided the Penguins, as well as the Blackhawks and maybe even the Kings. The last thing I want to see is a perennially successful Oilers franchise that is trying to hard to follow in their shoes. Another Oilers dynasty is not "fair" to the teams that have not tried to tank to improve. Teams that are perennially awful should not suddenly vault to the top, while perennially successful teams should not be left with few options to improve (salary cap, late-round draft picks, RFA restricted to >28, current teams can sign UFA to more years, etc.).

It's something that is hard to establish. When the fans are reacting to mismanagement of any kind the easiest thing to do is stop spending money. I've seen it in here (on the Buzzzz), so many times where posters are saying stop going to the games things have to change. Then the other side of that is keep supporting incompetence & you will keep getting incompetence.

So it's not black & white in my opinion about fans supporting their teams. When teams become good, of course you will get more people spending money - hell, they might even get to 25% capacity in Florida home game if the Panthers are good next season.
- Aussiepenguin

http://www.hockeydb.com/n...ce/att_graph.php?tmi=7475

There's "black and white" for you...specifically the years 2000 through 2004.

I just watched the replay of the sixth goal last night like 10 times in a row, how in any sense is coots embellishing/flopping like all these pens fans are saying. Letang comes in full speed and takes his legs out with his own legs, not even his stick.

I just watched the replay of the sixth goal last night like 10 times in a row, how in any sense is coots embellishing/flopping like all these pens fans are saying. Letang comes in full speed and takes his legs out with his own legs, not even his stick.
- ajw12

thank you. everyone talks about the stick getting the puck so it voids the penalty. It wasn't the damn stick, it was his legs. He knew what he was doing on that play. he didn't try to avoid couturier's skates at all

So after that wonderful day yesterday I will just drop a few thoughts...

1) Coots should have Filp's A next year but I don't see him ever being C.

2) Provy is the next C. That kid shows what a true genuine warrior he is and the dedication to preparation in the off season can not be understated.

3) I'm not blaming Neuvy for that game. It was a offensive display of defense by the Defense corps.

4) G's hit was a clean crazy hit. Kessel needs to rethink that choice of going after G.

5) Coots getting tripped was scary as hell.

6) Morin has to be here next year. I can't wait to see what he does and with it Manning will be gone which Bill alluded to.

7) Filp and Leier should not be brought back.

8) Figure out the goalie carousel before Hart or Sandstrom is here.

9 I am wondering how many will be reported as having long term nagging injuries during this season.

I just watched the replay of the sixth goal last night like 10 times in a row, how in any sense is coots embellishing/flopping like all these pens fans are saying. Letang comes in full speed and takes his legs out with his own legs, not even his stick.
- ajw12

They also want G suspended still for the Crosby hit that drove him into Letang and G suspended for smashing Hagelin legally. But won't say a peep when you mention Malkin's slew foot of Lehtera that actually caused an injury to Malkin.

So after that wonderful day yesterday I will just drop a few thoughts...

1) Coots should have Filp's A next year but I don't see him ever being C.

2) Provy is the next C. That kid shows what a true genuine warrior he is and the dedication to preparation in the off season can not be understated.

3) I'm not blaming Neuvy for that game. It was a offensive display of defense by the Defense corps.

4) G's hit was a clean crazy hit. Kessel needs to rethink that choice of going after G.

5) Coots getting tripped was scary as hell.

6) Morin has to be here next year. I can't wait to see what he does and with it Manning will be gone which Bill alluded to.

7) Filp and Leier should not be brought back.

8) Figure out the goalie carousel before Hart or Sandstrom is here.

9 I am wondering how many will be reported as having long term nagging injuries during this season.
- dragonoffrost

and risk losing the game? forget about it. that was one of the gutsiest plays I have ever seen. Huge momentum shift

if it gave you a shot at JT would you?
- 2Real

Call me crazy, but prob no. Tavares will cost more, be here longer, and there is no guarantee JT signs with us. Also, Voracek Produces at a similar pace but he doesn’t play center so I can see JT getting the edge.

thank you. everyone talks about the stick getting the puck so it voids the penalty. It wasn't the damn stick, it was his legs. He knew what he was doing on that play. he didn't try to avoid couturier's skates at all
- J35Bacher

Agreed 100%. You can see him twist his body so he hits coots' legs with all his weight and momentum.

You're comparing Simmonds to star players in the league. A goal is a goal in my book. The Flyers certainly could've used a few PP goals in the Pens series. I think there is merit to a trade but I'm definitely not in the trade him just to trade him group. If Simmonds returns to his normal level of play, 5-6M will be well worth it.
- MJL

Maybe but for how many years?I don't want a 6 year contract for Simmonds at all not the way he plays the game and for sure his skinny little legs will not hold up to that potential for another 6 years!

So after that wonderful day yesterday I will just drop a few thoughts...

1) Coots should have Filp's A next year but I don't see him ever being C.

2) Provy is the next C. That kid shows what a true genuine warrior he is and the dedication to preparation in the off season can not be understated.

3) I'm not blaming Neuvy for that game. It was a offensive display of defense by the Defense corps.

4) G's hit was a clean crazy hit. Kessel needs to rethink that choice of going after G.

5) Coots getting tripped was scary as hell.

6) Morin has to be here next year. I can't wait to see what he does and with it Manning will be gone which Bill alluded to.

7) Filp and Leier should not be brought back.

8) Figure out the goalie carousel before Hart or Sandstrom is here.

9 I am wondering how many will be reported as having long term nagging injuries during this season.
- dragonoffrost

Don’t take this the wrong way but a Russian will never captain the flyers