I guess you can argue that we don’t know for sure if the Caps feel any more pressure than the Penguins do, but I would guess they definitely do.
- Victoro311

There it is

There it is
- Feds91Stammer

Ok see this is a valid take. I thought you were claiming that pressure is a constant which isn’t true or else sports psychology wouldn’t be a lucrative field.

It's not, but only applying certain aspects to fit a narrative is not accurate.
- Feds91Stammer

C'mon man... You don't think there's more pressure on a team that routinely falls on it's face in the early rounds of the playoffs? Not to mention they're facing a team that has historically stood in their way.

I would imagine the Pens don't feel much pressure at all. It's all gravy for a team that won the two previous cups. I know a lot of the fans feel this way. We want to see a winner no doubt, but nobody is going to trash a team that won the last two. Lastly, the Pens will largely be returning the same team next year. It's not like the end of an era.

Caps fans on the other hand are probably chanting rituals and buying voo doo dolls.

There it is
- Feds91Stammer

You didn't answer my question.

All I have really seen is the idea of pressure based on external expectations such as the fans and pre season prediction type stuff.

There are internal pressures within each organization.

There are individual pressures within each player. (Maybe Crosby has the most pressure because he wants to be considered the greatest of all time and knows he needs to win 2-3 more cups to do that)

I'm just saying that the blanket statements I have seen here so far about pressure don't include even half of the story.
- Feds91Stammer

I'm not sure how much Crosby can change his legacy at this point. He'll never be considered the greatest ever. Maybe he's fighting for top 5 all-time instead of top 10.

Ovie on the other hand (and I've said this isn't fair) has the reputation of failing in the playoffs. I'd say a Cup win dies much more for his legacy than Crosby thus he has more pressure.

Pens fans, if they fall short, aren't going to feel angry like a lot if other fan bases.

Ok see this is a valid take. I thought you were claiming that pressure is a constant which isn’t true or else sports psychology wouldn’t be a lucrative field.
- Victoro311

At the end of the day, they are all human being, and how each player handles the pressure comes down to the individuals' personality. External "pressures" generally manifest in the same way; anxiety, and all players feel it before any professional hockey game.

I feel like we are really splitting hairs here

I'm not sure how much Crosby can change his legacy at this point. He'll never be considered the greatest ever. Maybe he's fighting for top 5 all-time instead of top 10.

Ovie on the other hand (and I've said this isn't fair) has the reputation of failing in the playoffs. I'd say a Cup win dies much more for his legacy than Crosby thus he has more pressure.

Pens fans, if they fall short, aren't going to feel angry like a lot if other fan bases.
- Tojo.

I dunno... I think Sid has already planted himself in the top 5. IF he was to snag 2 maybe needs 3 more cups... I think the conversation for him to be the best ever is there. In the general hockey world, I feel like cups>individual achievements. IF he retires with 6 cups, and another Conn Smythe or 2... that's definitely a conversation to be had.

I'm not sure how much Crosby can change his legacy at this point. He'll never be considered the greatest ever. Maybe he's fighting for top 5 all-time instead of top 10.

Ovie on the other hand (and I've said this isn't fair) has the reputation of failing in the playoffs. I'd say a Cup win dies much more for his legacy than Crosby thus he has more pressure.

Pens fans, if they fall short, aren't going to feel angry like a lot if other fan bases.
- Tojo.

Nah.

See a few pages ago...

You guys are ignoring too many aspects in your determination of pressure.

I dunno... I think Sid has already planted himself in the top 5. IF he was to snag 2 maybe needs 3 more cups... I think the conversation for him to be the best ever is there. In the general hockey world, I feel like cups>individual achievements. IF he retires with 6 cups, and another Conn Smythe or 2... that's definitely a conversation to be had.
- j.boyd919

This. And just because we may think his legacy is what it is at this point doesn't mean he doesn't have different thoughts on it.

I'm not sure how much Crosby can change his legacy at this point. He'll never be considered the greatest ever. Maybe he's fighting for top 5 all-time instead of top 10.

Ovie on the other hand (and I've said this isn't fair) has the reputation of failing in the playoffs. I'd say a Cup win dies much more for his legacy than Crosby thus he has more pressure.

Pens fans, if they fall short, aren't going to feel angry like a lot if other fan bases.
- Tojo.

I honestly don't think stuff like that matters too much for players before they are about to play an individual game. Legacy? No sports psychologist are banking their careers on that. They study the pressure of screaming fans, and being up or down in a game/series. Not the pressure of one's legacy on their performance. That's for the media and fans to do in hindsight.
That documentary Ice Guardians highlighted the gap between fans and players, albeit on a different topic.

At the end of the day, they are all human being, and how each player handles the pressure comes down to the individuals' personality. External "pressures" generally manifest in the same way; anxiety, and all players feel it before any professional hockey game.
- Blackstrom2

Exactly

I dunno... I think Sid has already planted himself in the top 5. IF he was to snag 2 maybe needs 3 more cups... I think the conversation for him to be the best ever is there. In the general hockey world, I feel like cups>individual achievements. IF he retires with 6 cups, and another Conn Smythe or 2... that's definitely a conversation to be had.
- j.boyd919

Gretzky has Jordan status though. Untouchable, even with all the statistics showing Lebron (Lemieux, possibly Crosby) should be considered right there in the conversation.

Exactly
- Thorny87

I think most of the "pressure" is going to come from just about to play an intense (frank)ing hockey game, and most players are going to feel it. From butterflies to adrenaline.

I just think the long-term pressures; team or individual legacy's, fans/media portrayal, etc are far less on their mind, if at all, right before they walk onto the ice. It's the small-term pressure that they feel on their neck.

Like Sullivan says: "Just Play."

Pens have won 2 cups in a row. Everything else, as we all know, is gravy.

Would we like them to threepeat? Do we 3elieve (kind of lame slogan IMHO)?

Of course we'd love it.

In the cap era, however, it should be next to impossible. It's all gravy for me as a fan going forward. I won't be too disappointed if they eventually lose.

If the Caps lose this series, however, it's a major fire sale and Trotz is gone. That's pressure

I think most of the "pressure" is going to come from just about to play an intense (frank)ing hockey game, and most players are going to feel it. From butterflies to adrenaline.

I just think the long-term pressures; team or individual legacy's, fans/media portrayal, etc are far less on their mind, if at all, right before they walk onto the ice. It's the small-term pressure that they feel on their neck.
- Blackstrom2

exactly

No Hags or Geno at practice.

No Hags or Geno at practice.
- madmike71

TIOPS states Hags has a conky.

Like Sullivan says: "Just Play."

Pens have won 2 cups in a row. Everything else, as we all know, is gravy.

Would we like them to threepeat? Do we 3elieve (kind of lame slogan IMHO)?

Of course we'd love it.

In the cap era, however, it should be next to impossible. It's all gravy for me as a fan going forward. I won't be too disappointed if they eventually lose.

If the Caps lose this series, however, it's a major fire sale and Trotz is gone. That's pressure
- PensFan1962

This

exactly
- Feds91Stammer

Are you honestly going to tell me that the Golden Knights and say the Caps, Sharks or Preds all have the same pressure to go all the way?

Just answer it.

Gretzky has Jordan status though. Untouchable, even with all the statistics showing Lebron (Lemieux, possibly Crosby) should be considered right there in the conversation.
- Blackstrom2

I agree with this. Don't see anyone challenging Gretzky while he's got that career points lead of over 900. Really, I don't know that a few more Cups would even get me to put Sid above Lemieux.

Are you honestly going to tell me that the Golden Knights and say the Caps, Sharks or Preds all have the same pressure to go all the way?

Just answer it.
- MattStrat

Yes.

They are all NHL teams.

They all expect to win.

I agree with this. Don't see anyone challenging Gretzky while he's got that career points lead of over 900. Really, I don't know that a few more Cups would even get me to put Sid above Lemieux.
- Tojo.

I dunno, the game has evolved so much since Gretzky. I get that his points are never going to be touched, but the talent gap was SO much wider then, the goalies wore phone books as leg pads, there was no butterfly style, guys were smoking cigs in between periods, no salary cap, etc. etc.

I think comparing Gretzky and any athlete based on points alone across era's like that can be difficult, there are era adjusted stats, and what not... but I just think so much of the hockey culture evaluates based on cups and clutch and playoff performers, etc. that a few more of those could (and probably should) put him into that conversation.

I mean.. if there is a legit argument that Ovi is the best goal scorer of all time... why wouldn't Sid have an argument to being the best of all time if he nabs a few more cups and conn smythe's?

I dunno, the game has evolved so much since Gretzky. I get that his points are never going to be touched, but the talent gap was SO much wider then, the goalies wore phone books as leg pads, there was no butterfly style, guys were smoking cigs in between periods, no salary cap, etc. etc. I think comparing Gretzky and any athlete based on points alone across era's like that can be difficult, there are era adjusted stats, and what not... but I just think so much of the hockey culture evaluates based on cups and clutch and playoff performers, etc. that a few more of those could (and probably should) put him into that conversation. I mean.. if there is a legit argument that Ovi is the best goal scorer of all time... why wouldn't Sid have an argument to being the best of all time if he nabs a few more cups and conn smythe's?
- j.boyd919

I can see someone making an argument, I just don't see Sid knocking of Gretzky in the majority of people's minds. Might not be right, just think that's how it is.

Just my opinion, I don't see his legacy moving up more then a few spots. He's already an all-time great. Therr isn't much higher for him to climb and I don't see the peak as attainable.

EDIT Guess what I want to say is there's a difference between having an argument for the spot and being the person who most people put in the spot.

I can see someone making an argument, I just don't see Sid knocking of Gretzky in the majority of people's minds. Might not be right, just think that's how it is.

Just my opinion, I don't see his legacy moving up more then a few spots. He's already an all-time great. Therr isn't much higher for him to climb and I don't see the peak as attainable.

EDIT Guess what I want to say is there's a difference between having an argument for the spot and being the person who most people put in the spot.
- Tojo.

I can see that.