They are slow What do you want them to do? They can’t keep up with the pens..they know it. Demoralizing to many but fine with me. They accomplished getting in the playoffs. That’s the bar for this team
- Just5

They better not try and sell people on Elliott/Neuvirth again next year.
Lehtera, Read, Manning at minimum have to be off this roster. And get rid of that steaming pile of garbage Weise too. And of course Gudas he's (frank)ing useless.

Voracek is frustrating because he basically either is light out or end up costing the team with careless penalties. That said I'd be pretty shocked if they moved him. The team doesnt have ton of depth in the wings and dealing Jake would be a pretty huge blow with how they're currently constructed.
- hereticpride

He’s definitely frustrating....BUT he needs another scorer on his line to be most effective. Who have we given him? Lindblom IS NOT there yet, and to be honest, I see far more Raffle than Leino in his ceiling. He’ll be a contributing bottom 6er when this team gets where it needs to be.

A F/A scoring winger, along with expected development in Patrick’s play changes this team. We aren’t even a 2 line team offensively with this lineup (and Simmonds playing like as he is).

Goaltending aside, their lack of effort is alarming. Pens finished the regular season with 100 points and the Flyers 98. Is their their that much of a discrepancy between the two? What did the other teams do to beat them?

I think this just proves this was the worst possible match up for the Flyers. But you have to at least TRY! If they could just get the first goal, their confidence could go up. Once Pittsburgh scores first, it's like they already know they'll lose.

PS (frank) Elliot. His comments these last 2 games he's all but throwing his team under the bus. Granted MacDonald was an idiot on that 3rd one, but he's been a gong show this series.

A boiled egg may help.
- Aussiepenguin

inside yolk.... I get it

They better not try and sell people on Elliott/Neuvirth again next year.
Lehtera, Read, Manning at minimum have to be off this roster. And get rid of that steaming pile of garbage Weise too. And of course Gudas he's (frank)ing useless.
- PLindbergh31

Despite his recent frustrating play, Elliot is still a viable goalie and with Hart/Stolarz in the background it would be foolish to trade any picks/prospects, IMHO. Ride with Elliot/Stolarz next season and hopefully Hart will be ready for 19-20.

Read will be UFA at the end of the season, I see 0% chance he's coming back.
Lehtera has one more year left, I think he sticks around.
Manning will be UFA as well, I don't see him coming back either with Sanheim/Morin in the mix.
Gudas isn't going anywhere.

This has been something I've wrote about here before. To me, it just looks like they are getting rolled over because they don't have the skill to compete. When you lack skill and chase the puck, it is always going to look like you've rolled over, imo.


The Flyers are just not that good of a team right now. (With Couts) The've got a good top line, a decent 2nd line (which I expect to be even better next season as Patrick grows), and a terrible bottom 6 (despite having a few decent players). They have a very good top pair a guy who will be a good 3D, and 3 bottom pairing guys. Goaltending is atrocious.
- VladDrag

Normally I feel that way, but I don't completely believe that is the case. Certainly plays a part in it. Last night they sustained pressure for over two shifts and then the counterattack goes the other way and the Pens score. I don't know if they sustained more than 20 seconds of zone time the entire game after that. Like a bubble had been burst. So that is what bothered me.

I don't think the team is so far behind the Pens that they are just getting dismantled. I think it is more of a matchup problem than anything else. Seems like they are one step ahead of the flyers on each play. Pens puck pursuit is impressive and the Flyers seem excited to just give the puck back to them.

Despite his recent frustrating play, Elliot is still a viable goalie and with Hart/Stolarz in the background it would be foolish to trade any picks/prospects, IMHO. Ride with Elliot/Stolarz next season and hopefully Hart will be ready for 19-20.

Read will be UFA at the end of the season, I see 0% chance he's coming back.
Lehtera has one more year left, I think he sticks around.
Manning will be UFA as well, I don't see him coming back either with Sanheim/Morin in the mix.
Gudas isn't going anywhere.
- Streit2ThePoint

Elliott isn't a viable goaltender in the playoffs. He's a sieve.

IMO, here is what needs to happen prior to the start of next season:

1. Someone else needs to take over coaching the PK. I don't care if they fire Lappy, re-assign him or whatever, but he cannot be the guy running the PK next season.

2. They must upgrade the goaltending, and if this means parting with the latter of their 2 first round picks, so be it. You cannot go into the 18-19 season with the Elliott/Neuvirth combo. That horse is dead.

3. They must find an effective 3C. If they believe the answer is in house (Vecchione or Vorobyev) fine, if not make a trade or sign someone. This is a huge hole on the roster and it needs to be filled now.

4. You need to unload a veteran Dman, preferably Gudas, and make room for Morin on this roster. This team badly needs more snarl and Morin will give you that. Manning should not be re-signed unless it's for a low cost deal and he's brought back strictly to be the 7th man. Morin and Hagg need to be in the every day lineup.

5. More speed and skill in the bottom six forward group. This can hopefully come from within.
- BiggE

Agreed. I do think Laughton can be a 3C, if given the chance. Although, I will admit he's been poor this series. Prior to his ice time demotion around the 50 game mark, he's was playing very well. Good underlying possession stats with heavy defensive usage, killing penalties, etc. He should have been given a shot at 3C, instead he was dropped to 4LW.

I also think Simmonds should be moved for a youngish (23-24) middle 6 player

Despite his recent frustrating play, Elliot is still a viable goalie and with Hart/Stolarz in the background it would be foolish to trade any picks/prospects, IMHO. Ride with Elliot/Stolarz next season and hopefully Hart will be ready for 19-20.

Read will be UFA at the end of the season, I see 0% chance he's coming back.
Lehtera has one more year left, I think he sticks around.
Manning will be UFA as well, I don't see him coming back either with Sanheim/Morin in the mix.
Gudas isn't going anywhere.
- Streit2ThePoint

Stolarz hasn't played basically the entire year, so can he really be counted to play the other 40 games because Elliott has shown throughout his entire career he cant play more then 45. Can Neuvy match his 20 games this year? Lyon is an AHL goalie. They have less then 5 million dedicated to 2 goalies who both have 1 year left on their contracts. They need to at least explore the possibility of bringing in another goalie.

- Streit2ThePoint

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Is Simmonds playing injured? He normally tortures the Pens, but this series, he is virtually invisible.

Agreed. I do think Laughton can be a 3C, if given the chance. Although, I will admit he's been poor this series. Prior to his ice time demotion around the 50 game mark, he's was playing very well. Good underlying possession stats with heavy defensive usage, killing penalties, etc. He should have been given a shot at 3C, instead he was dropped to 4LW.

I also think Simmonds should be moved for a youngish (23-24) middle 6 player
- VladDrag

When I look at his skill set, I think Laughton is actually better of as a LW and I'd like to see him playing the left side on the 3rd line next season. I'd like to see Simmonds moved too, but I have a sneaking suspicion that he is going to have a significant surgery following the season and probably isn't going to be traded. However a healthy Wayne Simmonds playing for a new contract in 18-19 isn't the worse thing in the world to have on your roster. Worse case, you just let him walk at the end of the season and it's not the end of the world.

If they can roll into 18-19 with a forward group that looks like the following, I'd be happy:

G-Coots-TK
Lindblom-Patrick-Jake
Laughton-???-Simmonds
Raffl-Vecchione-Aube-Kubel

Of course filling that ??? spot in the middle of the 3rd line will be the key.

You guys have some nice pieces on your team. Couturier and Patrick will make for a great 1-2. But way too much dead weight, hope you don't but really in need of a strip down rebuild.

1. Trade Giroux - you just have to. He is like a poor mans Kessel. Would excel in an under the radar role where he can purely focus on scoring but he isn't a guy who can carry a team. I have no idea why they traded Schenn and not Giroux.

2. Lose some of the dead weight - Fillpula, Lehtera, Read, Weise, MacDonald, Gudas, Manning... you can get away with one or two dead weight players but my goodness... That's $25M tied up in warm bodies.

3. Find a goalie... easier said than done. Giroux for Price?

Stolarz hasn't played basically the entire year, so can he really be counted to play the other 40 games because Elliott has shown throughout his entire career he cant play more then 45. Can Neuvy match his 20 games this year? Lyon is an AHL goalie. They have less then 5 million dedicated to 2 goalies who both have 1 year left on their contracts. They need to at least explore the possibility of bringing in another goalie.
- ravishingone

Agreed and I want a better goalie than Elliott to fill that role. I want a solid starter that can play 55-60 games and let Elliott or even Neuvirth be the guy playing 22-27.

They better not try and sell people on Elliott/Neuvirth again next year.
Lehtera, Read, Manning at minimum have to be off this roster. And get rid of that steaming pile of garbage Weise too. And of course Gudas he's (frank)ing useless.
- PLindbergh31

Regarding the goalies I’d be worried because of the fact they brought neuvirth back on the bench last night. I think it’s entirely possible they just roll with them again

Normally I feel that way, but I don't completely believe that is the case. Certainly plays a part in it. Last night they sustained pressure for over two shifts and then the counterattack goes the other way and the Pens score. I don't know if they sustained more than 20 seconds of zone time the entire game after that. Like a bubble had been burst. So that is what bothered me.

I don't think the team is so far behind the Pens that they are just getting dismantled. I think it is more of a matchup problem than anything else. Seems like they are one step ahead of the flyers on each play. Pens puck pursuit is impressive and the Flyers seem excited to just give the puck back to them.
- YuenglingJagr

They didn't sustain more than 20 seconds of zone time prior to that either, though. They were either hemmed in their own zone or failing to get any type of quality look at net. To me, if you can only muster 1:30 of 60:00 of sustained zone time, that shows a serious disparity of skill. I'm sure the flyers were deflated which also contributed to that, as well, however.

I also think that it is a matchup problem, too. But, to me, what causes the matchup problem is lack of skill in the flyers lineup vs the Pens. The Pens forwards are better skaters and more creative than the Flyers. They are also better in their own zone, and have a decent defensive system. I also think it looks better because of the lack of ability on our end.

Agreed. I do think Laughton can be a 3C, if given the chance. Although, I will admit he's been poor this series. Prior to his ice time demotion around the 50 game mark, he's was playing very well. Good underlying possession stats with heavy defensive usage, killing penalties, etc. He should have been given a shot at 3C, instead he was dropped to 4LW.

I also think Simmonds should be moved for a youngish (23-24) middle 6 player
- VladDrag

He’s had his shot. Along with Lindblom this is another kid everyone loves that I’m just not on the same page with their abilities.

He skates hard and plays responsibly. He is a 4th line player on a playoff run Flyers team. They need to upgrade that 3C spot for next year outside of the organization.

If they move Simmonds, they possibly can do that AND grab a top 6 scoring winger (who can skate!!), but one of those two things need to be found via FA or trade. No one in the pipeline is ready to jump up and do either at the start of the 2018-2019 season.

You guys have some nice pieces on your team. Couturier and Patrick will make for a great 1-2. But way too much dead weight, hope you don't but really in need of a strip down rebuild.

1. Trade Giroux - you just have to. He is like a poor mans Kessel. Would excel in an under the radar role where he can purely focus on scoring but he isn't a guy who can carry a team. I have no idea why they traded Schenn and not Giroux.

2. Lose some of the dead weight - Fillpula, Lehtera, Read, Weise, MacDonald, Gudas, Manning... you can get away with one or two dead weight players but my goodness... That's $25M tied up in warm bodies.

3. Find a goalie... easier said than done. Giroux for Price?
- MacPatty

Some good points here, except Price. That contract will make other moves impossible

Regarding the goalies I’d be worried because of the fact they brought neuvirth back on the bench last night. I think it’s entirely possible they just roll with them again
- Just5

They aren't winning playoff series with Elliott/Neuvirth. No one has any idea when Hart will be NHL ready, and even when he's on the team he's going to be eased in most likely and there will be growing pains. When Hart hits his prime, what kind of production do people expect from Giroux?

There are a ton of holes on this roster. It isn't nearly as close to contending as people think.

You guys have some nice pieces on your team. Couturier and Patrick will make for a great 1-2. But way too much dead weight, hope you don't but really in need of a strip down rebuild.

1. Trade Giroux - you just have to. He is like a poor mans Kessel. Would excel in an under the radar role where he can purely focus on scoring but he isn't a guy who can carry a team. I have no idea why they traded Schenn and not Giroux.

2. Lose some of the dead weight - Fillpula, Lehtera, Read, Weise, MacDonald, Gudas, Manning... you can get away with one or two dead weight players but my goodness... That's $25M tied up in warm bodies.

3. Find a goalie... easier said than done. Giroux for Price?
- MacPatty

We've never discussed any of this, thank you!!

You guys have some nice pieces on your team. Couturier and Patrick will make for a great 1-2. But way too much dead weight, hope you don't but really in need of a strip down rebuild.

1. Trade Giroux - you just have to. He is like a poor mans Kessel. Would excel in an under the radar role where he can purely focus on scoring but he isn't a guy who can carry a team. I have no idea why they traded Schenn and not Giroux.

2. Lose some of the dead weight - Fillpula, Lehtera, Read, Weise, MacDonald, Gudas, Manning... you can get away with one or two dead weight players but my goodness... That's $25M tied up in warm bodies.

3. Find a goalie... easier said than done. Giroux for Price?
- MacPatty

Do you remember the year giroux had last year? No one is trading for a 60 point player with that many years left. This year he’s proven why they gave him the contract. He needs support around him. The depth on this team needs to be better. Giroux looked fine when konecny was on his line with couturier. It was a great match. But for some reason he was removed from the line. Never to return

When I look at his skill set, I think Laughton is actually better of as a LW and I'd like to see him playing the left side on the 3rd line next season. I'd like to see Simmonds moved too, but I have a sneaking suspicion that he is going to have a significant surgery following the season and probably isn't going to be traded. However a healthy Wayne Simmonds playing for a new contract in 18-19 isn't the worse thing in the world to have on your roster. Worse case, you just let him walk at the end of the season and it's not the end of the world.

If they can roll into 18-19 with a forward group that looks like the following, I'd be happy:

G-Coots-TK
Lindblom-Patrick-Jake
Laughton-???-Simmonds
Raffl-Vecchione-Aube-Kubel

Of course filling that ??? spot in the middle of the 3rd line will be the key.
- BiggE

I think he can be successful in the role , particularly if he's got linemates who can create plays. He's got good skating ability and a great shot, but he doesn't do a good job combining those two to get shots on net. If he played wing, I think he would be able to use his speed off the puck to get open.

You guys have some nice pieces on your team. Couturier and Patrick will make for a great 1-2. But way too much dead weight, hope you don't but really in need of a strip down rebuild.

1. Trade Giroux - you just have to. He is like a poor mans Kessel. Would excel in an under the radar role where he can purely focus on scoring but he isn't a guy who can carry a team. I have no idea why they traded Schenn and not Giroux.

2. Lose some of the dead weight - Fillpula, Lehtera, Read, Weise, MacDonald, Gudas, Manning... you can get away with one or two dead weight players but my goodness... That's $25M tied up in warm bodies.

3. Find a goalie... easier said than done. Giroux for Price?
- MacPatty

Some fair points. I disagree that Giroux is a poor mans Kessel. Giroux is a better player than Phil Kessel.

Is Simmonds playing injured? He normally tortures the Pens, but this series, he is virtually invisible.
- TaxMan22

I think we're going to find out that he has some sort of upper body injury. Skating seems fine but the physical aspect of his game is totally gone. And when that is gone his flaws as a player are no longer hidden.