Much better players to spend money on, both in the system and as UFAs. Old guys who want pay days can go (frank) themselves. If he wants to play for under 4 million bucks, sure, otherwise, bye.
- Unholy_Goalie

Yeah I was thinking he'd be in the 4-5 range for 2 years.

Martin does need to go. No question.

JVR doesn't stay, and c'mon man you know Kane has bad-news-bears written all over him.
- AngryWhiteMale

High-risk, high reward. Doesn't seem to be a problem for San Jose at all. That's why we have Babcock, isn't it? Isn't his job to manage egos and coach players?

I have a feeling Gardiner gets traded anyway. He just isn't the Dman we need despite his obvious upside, and he'll cost too much.

If you can replace him for less or with a better guy who fits his role, then sure, otherwise they might have to re-sign him because he produces a lot of offense and the Leafs D is as thin as it is.

Tavares would be surrounded by enough talent it wouldn't be the end of the world like when Phil came and was supposed to be a franchise player when he just wanted to fill the net on ice and his stomach off the ice. Toronto can in fact offer him close enough to the most that if he wants to be here, he can.

Nobody can offer him more money than the Islanders and nobody has a bigger reason to overpay to keep him than the Islanders. If he leaves the Islanders, teams like Nashville have the cap space and the winning situation to give him everything he would get in Toronto, plus a better tax rate and more privacy. Tavares coming to Toronto is a long, long shot.

Yeah I was thinking he'd be in the 4-5 range for 2 years.
- AngryWhiteMale

If he gets so much as 3 teams interested in him, he'll go for 6+.

You said his numbers and then put up offensive numbers which is hilarious because offense is half the story and you failed to realize that Carlson's numbers are inflated given the system he plays in and the players he plays with compared to Doughty. So those "comparable" numbers are surface deep and don't prove much, especially defensively which is what the Leafs actually need more than anything. Defense.
- Unholy_Goalie

I said numbers are nearly identical then went ahead and posted numbers. Much less hilarious then you claiming hockey knowledge then backing it up with literally sweet f*ck all and moving the goal posts every time you're proven wrong.

High-risk, high reward. Doesn't seem to be a problem for San Jose at all. That's why we have Babcock, isn't it? Isn't his job to manage egos and coach players?




If you can replace him for less or with a better guy who fits his role, then sure, otherwise they might have to re-sign him because he produces a lot of offense and the Leafs D is as thin as it is.



Nobody can offer him more money than the Islanders and nobody has a bigger reason to overpay to keep him than the Islanders. If he leaves the Islanders, teams like Nashville have the cap space and the winning situation to give him everything he would get in Toronto, plus a better tax rate and more privacy. Tavares coming to Toronto is a long, long shot.
- Unholy_Goalie

We have a complete abundance of wingers, probably will let a 35 goal winger walk and your target of choice is....Evander Kane.

atmosphere on here was way better with ug not posting his negativity on here...
btw lums left when uggie arrived - alter ego?

and yes - hyman should be leafs' new captain

So Carlson has been playing 22-23+ minutes a night for an elite team since he was 20 with numbers nearly identical to Doughty but that's not number 1 defensemen to you.
- Blazed

He's a better version of Gardiner but he's not Doughty and after a career year as a UFA, he'll want to get paid like Doughty. It's not worth it.

If you move Gardiner and maybe even Zaitsev and sign Carlson, I'm fine with that. But if you keep Gardiner, Zaitsev and sign Carlson, you've solved nothing and filled up your cap space without getting the bang for your buck.

The Leafs need a legit #1 D. That means a Norris winner or at least candidate. I can't remember the last Norris winner that didn't win a Cup by the end of his career. Subban and A) it was half a season and B) he looks like he's on his way pretty soon. Brent Burns went to the Cup Finals, Karlsson almost made it there by himself.

Phaneuf was a #1 D for a period of time, by default. Doesn't mean he was a good one. The Leafs can blow their load on a guy who plays the most minutes, doesn't mean he's what they need to go all the way.

i understand that since uggie is 14y old, everyone is 'old'to him
however kovalchuk (if leafs cannot sign tavares) would be a significant upgrade over jvr (and hypothetical e kane)

He's a better version of Gardiner but he's not Doughty and after a career year as a UFA, he'll want to get paid like Doughty. It's not worth it.

If you move Gardiner and maybe even Zaitsev and sign Carlson, I'm fine with that. But if you keep Gardiner, Zaitsev and sign Carlson, you've solved nothing and filled up your cap space without getting the bang for your buck.

The Leafs need a legit #1 D. That means a Norris winner or at least candidate. I can't remember the last Norris winner that didn't win a Cup except Subban and A) it was half a season and B) he looks like he's on his way pretty soon.

Phaneuf was a #1 D for a period of time, by default. Doesn't mean he was a good one. The Leafs can blow their load on a guy who plays the most minutes, doesn't mean he's what they need to go all the way.
- Unholy_Goalie

phaneuf sucked at leafs and still sucks.
always said no sc for a team with neon dion in lineup.

High-risk, high reward. Doesn't seem to be a problem for San Jose at all. That's why we have Babcock, isn't it? Isn't his job to manage egos and coach players?
- Unholy_Goalie

I think he'll still command enough money that it would, comparatively-speaking, over a term he'll be looking for, be better to pay more for JVR, but it isn't worth it IMO.

If you can replace him for less or with a better guy who fits his role, then sure, otherwise they might have to re-sign him because he produces a lot of offense and the Leafs D is as thin as it is.
- Unholy_Goalie

Leafs need a true stud. Nothing's getting better back there until we have a true stud back there.

Nobody can offer him more money than the Islanders and nobody has a bigger reason to overpay to keep him than the Islanders. If he leaves the Islanders, teams like Nashville have the cap space and the winning situation to give him everything he would get in Toronto, plus a better tax rate and more privacy. Tavares coming to Toronto is a long, long shot.
- Unholy_Goalie

Taxes are such a huge impact on a guy's takehome pay. NY can't be that different on taxes than Ontario. And I'm sure it matters when guys look at a place like Dallas where a 10m deal is 10m in your pocket, and a 10m deal in Ontario where you take home 6.5m.

We have a complete abundance of wingers, probably will let a 35 goal winger walk and your target of choice is....Evander Kane.
- Blazed

He would instantly become the toughest winger the Leafs have, seems to be playing great in the playoffs which is what you need if you want to be a contender, he's younger than JVR, has the skill to score 30 (without Matthews, just imagine with him and Nylander) and he's 26 which means his best years are ahead of him.

If it's between JVR and Kane, for roughly the same money, Kane wins every time.

I think he'll still command enough money that it would, comparatively-speaking, over a term he'll be looking for, be better to pay more for JVR, but it isn't worth it IMO.
- AngryWhiteMale

Just as talented, way tougher, younger and probably the same money. Definitely worth it.

Leafs need a true stud. Nothing's getting better back there until we have a true stud back there.

Yup.

Taxes are such a huge impact on a guy's takehome pay. NY can't be that different on taxes than Ontario. And I'm sure it matters when guys look at a place like Dallas where a 10m deal is 10m in your pocket, and a 10m deal in Ontario where you take home 6.5m.

The Islanders can offer him 8 years, everybody else can offer him 7. That extra year makes a big, big difference.

As for the taxes...

https://www.capfriendly.c...t_tax_calculator/10000000

i understand that since uggie is 14y old, everyone is 'old'to him
however kovalchuk (if leafs cannot sign tavares) would be a significant upgrade over jvr (and hypothetical e kane)
- MaximusAurelius

I don't think Kovalchuk would be a significant upgrade. He'd be an adequate short term replacement while we develop more talent.

He's a better version of Gardiner but he's not Doughty and after a career year as a UFA, he'll want to get paid like Doughty. It's not worth it.

If you move Gardiner and maybe even Zaitsev and sign Carlson, I'm fine with that. But if you keep Gardiner, Zaitsev and sign Carlson, you've solved nothing and filled up your cap space without getting the bang for your buck.

The Leafs need a legit #1 D. That means a Norris winner or at least candidate. I can't remember the last Norris winner that didn't win a Cup except Subban and A) it was half a season and B) he looks like he's on his way pretty soon.

Phaneuf was a #1 D for a period of time, by default. Doesn't mean he was a good one. The Leafs can blow their load on a guy who plays the most minutes, doesn't mean he's what they need to go all the way.
- Unholy_Goalie

He's been a stud on an elite team in all situations for 8 years.

He plays big minutes on PP big minutes on PK, 6'3" RH shot very mobile.

Rielly-Carlson would be one of the top pairings in the league.

Norris winners are very easy to acquire.

i understand that since uggie is 14y old, everyone is 'old'to him
however kovalchuk (if leafs cannot sign tavares) would be a significant upgrade over jvr (and hypothetical e kane)
- MaximusAurelius

Can't say that until we see him in the show again. I'm sure he can still snipe but he's definitely slowed down.

JVR is a 35 goal scorer.

He's been a stud on an elite team in all situations for 8 years.

He plays big minutes on PP big minutes on PK, 6'3" RH shot very mobile.

Rielly-Carlson would be one of the top pairings in the league.

Norris winners are very easy to acquire.
- Blazed

honestly, carlson is ot that good - not in norris territory

Lolz Ontario taxes. This province will go bankrupt one of these days

honestly, carlson is ot that good - not in norris territory
- MaximusAurelius

Agree I don't think Carlsson is that good either.

honestly, carlson is ot that good - not in norris territory
- MaximusAurelius

Never said he was but UG over there says we need a Norris winner. Well only 8 different Dman have won the Norris this millennium so best of luck acquiring that.

Can't say that until we see him in the show again. I'm sure he can still snipe but he's definitely slowed down.

JVR is a 35 goal scorer.
- Blazed

jvr is not adding alot to this leafs team.
he is weak, doesnt backcheck and doesnt show up in playoffs.
he's been better 2nd half of this season, but 6million better spent on other players

Agree I don't think Carlsson is that good either.
- AngryWhiteMale

Look at the career he's had so far. He's easily better than any current Leafs dman.

He's been a stud on an elite team in all situations for 8 years.

He plays big minutes on PP big minutes on PK, 6'3" RH shot very mobile.

Rielly-Carlson would be one of the top pairings in the league.

Norris winners are very easy to acquire.
- Blazed

And yet, still over rated and will be over paid. If they get rid of Gardiner and/or Zaitsev, it makes more sense but unless that happens, it's a potential anchor of a contract just waiting to happen.

Chara was a UFA signed by Boston, Niedermayer sign with Anaheim, Pronger was traded twice, Paul Coffey, Rob Blake, Brian Leetch and Ray Bourque all got traded or changed teams. Does it happen often? Definitely not. Does that mean the Leafs should be blowing their load on potentially overpaid, over rated "can't believe it's not a real #1 D" as a replacement? No.

Keep drafting, keep developing, keep snooping for a good deal, maybe sign a legit 1st line UFA and move Nylander for a legit #1 D who is the same age. There are multiple other options available.

Never said he was but UG over there says we need a Norris winner. Well only 8 different Dman have won the Norris this millennium so best of luck acquiring that.
- Blazed

mattias ekholm or ekman larsson would be more valuable for leafs

jvr is not adding alot to this leafs team.
he is weak, doesnt backcheck and doesnt show up in playoffs.
he's been better 2nd half of this season, but 6million better spent on other players
- MaximusAurelius

You know he has 2 goals in 3 games right?

mattias ekholm or ekman larsson would be more valuable for leafs
- MaximusAurelius

Strongly disagree with that, but even if I didn't how are you acquiring them?