The problem is that people can’t get past basic point totals, yet like to claim other people cherry pick. It’s infinitely infuriating
- sbroads24

I agree there's something there, but you're hardly immune from it. Constantly female dogging about Kane's lack of points.

Paul Hamilton again today talking about O’Reilly’s inconsistent effort and bad start.

But hey, the guy played a bazillion minutes and managed 61 points. He should be celebrated
- sbroads24

Could he actually have had 70 points, or more, if he was consistent game to game?

I ask because he's always produced the same year end totals like he did hits year, and yes I know it makes your head explode, but I think you get what I'm wondering.

And how many of those goals were assisted by Eichel? My bias is unreal. yeah
- Sabresfan-365

Idk... why don’t u tell me?

And yeah,
when a guy scores almost HALF our PP goals & u give him ZERO credit for it...
then it really does show how big your bias is against him

It’s one thing to criticize what he doesn’t do well
It’s another thing to just dismiss everything that he is good at
U guys do a great job at that
Keep up the good work

Rattled

I agree there's something there, but you're hardly immune from it. Constantly female dogging about Kane's lack of points.
- Wetbandit1

Bc he cherry picks what stats are/aren’t important based on what argument he’s making

Sure.

Weird that on the #1 PP unit last year he had only 8, and Eichel had 10

Maybe it’s because teams focus on taking Eichel’s shot away which opened up room on the other side for Okposo and O’Reilly. That’s my theory
- sbroads24

Fair
But O’Reilly was still putting the puck in the net
Converting on those opportunities

But hey,
no credit given whatsoever for that

Just to compare...
O’Reilly has 15 PP goals with “room opened up”
Okposo had 6 i think

I agree there's something there, but you're hardly immune from it. Constantly female dogging about Kane's lack of points.
- Wetbandit1

Oh I’m not immune to it at all.

We all have biases. I try to use stats to prove my points sometime

Fair
But O’Reilly was still putting the puck in the net
Converting on those opportunities

But hey,
no credit given whatsoever for that

Just to compare...
O’Reilly has 15 PP goals with “room opened up”
Okposo had 6 i think
- jdfitz77

I’m not saying he isn’t good on the PP.

My point is that PP production or goals are random. There are more rebounds reflections etc.

Being good 5 on 5 is usually what good players do annually

Idk... why don’t u tell me?

And yeah,
when a guy scores almost HALF our PP goals & u give him ZERO credit for it...
then it really does show how big your bias is against him

It’s one thing to criticize what he doesn’t do well
It’s another thing to just dismiss everything that he is good at
U guys do a great job at that
Keep up the good work
- jdfitz77

If you bothered to actually read any of my posts, you'll notice i constantly say he's a good player, just not worth his contract

Yes he scores well at 5v4
he creates turnovers
he wins faceoffs
he occasionally makes good defensive plays

Replacing him wouldn't be nearly as hard as you pretend it would be

And since you asked, 7 of his 15 PPG were assisted by Eichel

I’m not saying he isn’t good on the PP.

My point is that PP production or goals are random. There are more rebounds reflections etc.

Being good 5 on 5 is usually what good players do annually
- sbroads24

I mean, credit where it's due on the pp production but he's not being paid to be a pp specialist

I dont think his question was intended that way

Ill probably go to game 3 or 4 vs Bruins
- Sabresfan-365

Right now the cheapest seat, not standing room, is $270, standing room is still $200. Plus gas to drive the hour and half that turns into 3 because traffic, it once took me 4 hours to get to Massey Hall from the Rainbow Bridge, missed the opening act and the first couple songs from the main act, parking, probably going to need to eat and drink something. God forbid you need a hotel room... You're looking at about $350 rock bottom, with a seat, just to go to a game with 2 teams I hate.

Going to "all the California teams" is going to easily be in the thousands.

Right now the cheapest seat, not standing room, is $270, standing room is still $200. Plus gas to drive the hour and half that turns into 3 because traffic, it once took me 4 hours to get to Massey Hall from the Rainbow Bridge, missed the opening act and the first couple songs from the main act, parking, probably going to need to eat and drink something. God forbid you need a hotel room... You're looking at about $350 rock bottom, with a seat, just to go to a game with 2 teams I hate.

Going to "all the California teams" is going to easily be in the thousands.
- Wetbandit1

I don't begrudge him those things, in his position I would absolutely take advantage of all the things he does, and more. Life is too (frank)ing short, do what you can when you can.

But he just doesn't realize that things cost money, and most people don't make enough of it. He was incredulous that a poster didn't own a car a couple months ago. Like "how is that even possible?".

Again, I don't think it's malicious. He just doesn't think for a second before he posts some things.

I’m not saying he isn’t good on the PP.

My point is that PP production or goals are random. There are more rebounds reflections etc.

Being good 5 on 5 is usually what good players do annually
- sbroads24

Well u sure aren’t giving him any credit either

I think when our defense is better at moving the puck out of our own end...
(which i think u agree, we have sucked at)
that you will see our 5v5 numbers improve quite a bit
Especially for those who are taking a lot of defensive zone starts

Now that doesn’t mean i think ROR is gonna suddenly put up stats like Malkin...
But they should at least improve a bit


We had a nice reasonable convo about ROR last night

And now u guys are back to just straight bashing him

If you bothered to actually read any of my posts, you'll notice i constantly say he's a good player, just not worth his contract

Yes he scores well at 5v4
he creates turnovers
he wins faceoffs
he occasionally makes good defensive plays

Replacing him wouldn't be nearly as hard as you pretend it would be

And since you asked, 7 of his 15 PPG were assisted by Eichel
- Sabresfan-365

So if your big problem is his contract...
please tell me how u expect that we won’t be overpaying others?

Dude, the buff-a-tax is real
Whether it’s paying players more to come here,
or paying them more to STAY HERE...

Unless u want a team full of “bargains” like Pouliot (please god, no)...

That’s just something you’re gonna have to get over
Bc it’s not gonna change anytime soon

Well u sure aren’t giving him any credit either

I think when our defense is better at moving the puck out of our own end...
(which i think u agree, we have sucked at)
that you will see our 5v5 numbers improve quite a bit
Especially for those who are taking a lot of defensive zone starts

Now that doesn’t mean i think ROR is gonna suddenly put up stats like Malkin...
But they should at least improve a bit


We had a nice reasonable convo about ROR last night

And now u guys are back to just straight bashing him
- jdfitz77

I don’t think a guy needs a pat on the back for being good when he’s on the ice with Jack Eichel.

Of course when we get better as a whole, 5 on 5 will be better, but the problem is he isn’t holding his own.

Taylor Hall had a massive jump from last year, especially 5 on 5.

Thing is, he still was the best 5 on 5 player relative to his team when the Devils sucked. His overall numbers just got better.

Jack Eichel has been the best 5 on 5 player for two years on the Sabres.

That’s not the case with 90. He ranks 6th, 9th, 4th etc in different categories, on a team we all agree is hot garbage.

It needs to be better in those areas.

I mean, credit where it's due on the pp production but he's not being paid to be a pp specialist
- Sabresfan-365

What is he “being paid for” in your opinion?

I think the problem here is that your expectations for him are based on the salary he’s making and not his actual skill set

So if your big problem is his contract...
please tell me how u expect that we won’t be overpaying others?

Dude, the buff-a-tax is real
Whether it’s paying players more to come here,
or paying them more to STAY HERE...

Unless u want a team full of “bargains” like Pouliot (please god, no)...

That’s just something you’re gonna have to get over
Bc it’s not gonna change anytime soon
- jdfitz77

you wanna know who's a bargain? mittelstadt at 900k. thats quite the bargain for a 2nd line C

the buff-a-tax is only real when you negotiate from a position of weakness. i.e, giving up a haul for ror a year before he's due to hit FA. Then you're kinda left giving him whatever he wants otherwise risk losing him for nothing.

Buff-a-tax may exits in FA siginings in the sense that we may have to give someone an extra year or an extra mil.

But when you sign a guy whose production relative to league average comes out to 4.5-5 mil, and give him 3 extra years than what he should be getting, you're just a bad gm.

What is he “being paid for” in your opinion?

I think the problem here is that your expectations for him are based on the salary he’s making and not his actual skill set
- jdfitz77

Do you not see the problem with that though?

I don’t think a guy needs a pat on the back for being good when he’s on the ice with Jack Eichel.

Of course when we get better as a whole, 5 on 5 will be better, but the problem is he isn’t holding his own.

Taylor Hall had a massive jump from last year, especially 5 on 5.

Thing is, he still was the best 5 on 5 player relative to his team when the Devils sucked. His overall numbers just got better.

Jack Eichel has been the best 5 on 5 player for two years on the Sabres.

That’s not the case with 90. He ranks 6th, 9th, 4th etc in different categories, on a team we all agree is hot garbage.

It needs to be better in those areas.
- sbroads24

Well O’Reilly obviously isn’t Jack or Taylor Hall though!
No one is saying he is

Some of you guys are nuts, wanting to trade this guy and that. How many of you Ding Dongs wanted Reinhart gone 7 months ago? Now I’m reading that you guys want ROR gone? With the depth you have now? Come on, be reasonable. You will have a playoff team once you have all the key positions filled by solid,qualified NHL players.

Here’s what you need ( fill in the blanks).

1. #1 Center: Jack Eichel
2. #2 center : Ryan O Reilly
3. #3 Center : __________
4-5. Scoring Wingers : Sam Reinhardt - Kyle Okposo
6. Top line quality 2-way winger __________
7. Quality Utility forward who can play offence and defence on all 4 lines________
8. #1 D _________
9. #2 D Rasmus Ristolainen
10. # 3 D ___________
11. #4 D Marco Scandela
12. Starting Goaltender ___________

That’s 6 pieces I couldn’t find on your roster. The above players listed are all keepers but in no way shape or form are they good enough to make up for the blanks in such key positions. You probably have enough players on your roster to fill up the unlisted spots on the roster. A nice smattering of veterans and rookies AHL graduates are all you need there, but the key position should are hard to fill.
Best course of action is to be patient, let the young players like Ghule and Middlestat graduate Into those positions in a few years and you’ll be fine.
Also, you guys should draft one of the defenders this year, tho you have enough holes that’s BPa isn’t a bad idea either.

you wanna know who's a bargain? mittelstadt at 900k. thats quite the bargain for a 2nd line C

the buff-a-tax is only real when you negotiate from a position of weakness. i.e, giving up a haul for ror a year before he's due to hit FA. Then you're kinda left giving him whatever he wants otherwise risk losing him for nothing.

Buff-a-tax may exits in FA siginings in the sense that we may have to give someone an extra year or an extra mil.

But when you sign a guy whose production relative to league average comes out to 4.5-5 mil, and give him 3 extra years than what he should be getting, you're just a bad gm.
- Sabresfan-365

Counting guys on their ELC as a bargain is pretty dumb

If that’s gonna be what you point to,
then we should never pay good players once it’s time to show them the $$$
Including Jack @ 10mil per
That sure as sh!t isn’t a bargain

And are u really trying to say that O’Reilly is overpaid by 3mil?!

Well O’Reilly obviously isn’t Jack or Taylor Hall though!
No one is saying he is
- jdfitz77

No ones saying he needs to be the best player, but he should be the 2nd or 3rd best in most offensive categories.

I don’t think the guy sucks, and this is getting repetitive so I’m gonna drop it

If you bothered to actually read any of my posts, you'll notice i constantly say he's a good player, just not worth his contract

Yes he scores well at 5v4
he creates turnovers
he wins faceoffs
he occasionally makes good defensive plays

Replacing him wouldn't be nearly as hard as you pretend it would be

And since you asked, 7 of his 15 PPG were assisted by Eichel
- Sabresfan-365

This, that's the entire point. A steady and consistent 60 - 70 points is a great thing. Just not at this price.

What gets me aggravated is the idea that the Sabres paid this price because he'd be a great locker room guy, there was the value. I've got no window into the locker room but it sounds like he's not rubbing off on people.

Whomever the leader is needs to have the coaches ear when people are clearly mailing it in. Everyone has stated that we don't know who is or is not mailing it in, that's accurate. But the guy we pay a premium for his leadership should and be handling where he can.

This isn't just about talent, it seems many of Murray's players were just as lazy as he was it appears. I do hope ROR comes around, I'd love to see him not just produce his level of points (which are great) but drag some of the under achievers with him next year. Or get to stepping...

Counting guys on their ELC as a bargain is pretty dumb

If that’s gonna be what you point to,
then we should never pay good players once it’s time to show them the $$$
Including Jack @ 10mil per
That sure as sh!t isn’t a bargain

And are u really trying to say that O’Reilly is overpaid by 3mil?!
- jdfitz77

Penciling in rookies at 2C is pretty dumb as well. Show me a successful team that has one.

Counting guys on their ELC as a bargain is pretty dumb

If that’s gonna be what you point to,
then we should never pay good players once it’s time to show them the $$$
Including Jack @ 10mil per
That sure as sh!t isn’t a bargain

And are u really trying to say that O’Reilly is overpaid by 3mil?!
- jdfitz77

oh