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Forums :: Blog World :: Noel Fogelman: The end of an era?
Author Message
nyisles7
New York Islanders
Location: Wrong timing, NY
Joined: 01.20.2009

Apr 5 @ 10:45 PM ET
Chris Botta @ChrisBottaNHL
2m
Since Garth Snow became GM in 2006, #Isles have lost 525 of 949 games. Failed to make playoffs 8 of 12 seasons. Still, was told tonight:
- ownership continues to ponder whether to bring him back for a 13th season
- a statement/announcement is likely to be made next week.



- eichiefs9


That his phucking ass is fired!
ses111
New York Islanders
Joined: 06.07.2008

Apr 5 @ 10:47 PM ET
Jesus (frank)ing tap dancing christ! Unless they announce a public execution it will be a disappointment!

WHAT THE FACK IS THERE TO THINK ABOUT!!

- JimmyP




They had a couple of years before they officially took over to think about it. What more do they need to see?
ses111
New York Islanders
Joined: 06.07.2008

Apr 5 @ 10:50 PM ET
That his phucking ass is fired!
- nyisles7


Going to be very interesting next week either way.
Ur Not Me
New York Islanders
Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: 11.30.2008

Apr 5 @ 10:52 PM ET
Garf is staying ......
bgainesDM
New York Islanders
Joined: 06.09.2015

Apr 5 @ 10:54 PM ET
https://twitter.com/SWhyn...status/982084032300290048

Love the jab there.
JimmyP
New York Islanders
Location: Snow has melted!
Joined: 02.12.2011

Apr 5 @ 10:58 PM ET


They had a couple of years before they officially took over to think about it. What more do they need to see?

- ses111


If they keep Garth they'll see a lot more seasons like this. Also tumble weed blowing through the stands in Belmont.

RafiDRW
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Bill Cosby’s Magic Wiener #FireBlashill, TN
Joined: 04.16.2016

Apr 5 @ 10:59 PM ET
If they keep Garth they'll see a lot more seasons like this. Also tumble weed blowing through the stands in Belmont.


- JimmyP

Wish you could tag Tumbleweed on this. He gets a good cone back in usually.
ses111
New York Islanders
Joined: 06.07.2008

Apr 5 @ 11:01 PM ET
If they keep Garth they'll see a lot more seasons like this. Also tumble weed blowing through the stands in Belmont.


- JimmyP


Why would L&M set themselves up for continued ridicule by keeping Garth? Even Ranger fans who hate the Isles do not think Garth should stay.
ses111
New York Islanders
Joined: 06.07.2008

Apr 5 @ 11:04 PM ET
Garf is staying ......
- Ur Not Me


Prepare the next level of billboards.

I still think L&M are not going to want to face the backlash of keeping Garth. Isles fans put up with many lousy owners and probably have little patience anymore. We saw some of that with the billboards about Garth. Belmont is still a ways off and L&M need to start changing the tide now.
Aussiepenguin
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Sydney
Joined: 08.02.2014

Apr 5 @ 11:13 PM ET
So where 'dont' you want him to go? Devils, Rags??

I think him & Lundqvist will be kissing - sorry, sipping, lattes together somewhere cosy - sorry, handy, to msg.
Ur Not Me
New York Islanders
Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: 11.30.2008

Apr 5 @ 11:58 PM ET
Prepare the next level of billboards.

I still think L&M are not going to want to face the backlash of keeping Garth. Isles fans put up with many lousy owners and probably have little patience anymore. We saw some of that with the billboards about Garth. Belmont is still a ways off and L&M need to start changing the tide now.

- ses111



Owners dont care, they will still be in hiding, nothing will change unfortunately ....
ses111
New York Islanders
Joined: 06.07.2008

Apr 6 @ 12:36 AM ET
Owners dont care, they will still be in hiding, nothing will change unfortunately ....
- Ur Not Me


Ledecky has not been the type that likes to hide. L&M get so many more benefits firing Garth than keeping him. We'll find out soon enough what happens.
temmer29
New York Islanders
Location: London, ON
Joined: 07.23.2007

Apr 6 @ 4:34 AM ET
Anybody notice if JT picked up the game puck?
Cptmjl
New York Islanders
Joined: 11.05.2011

Apr 6 @ 7:12 AM ET
Chris Botta @ChrisBottaNHL
2m
Since Garth Snow became GM in 2006, #Isles have lost 525 of 949 games. Failed to make playoffs 8 of 12 seasons. Still, was told tonight:
- ownership continues to ponder whether to bring him back for a 13th season
- a statement/announcement is likely to be made next week.



- eichiefs9

My God
Ur Not Me
New York Islanders
Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: 11.30.2008

Apr 6 @ 7:43 AM ET
Ledecky has not been the type that likes to hide. L&M get so many more benefits firing Garth than keeping him. We'll find out soon enough what happens.
- ses111


Most likely, a PoHo search and possibly hire will be the only difference ....
mdw7413
New York Rangers
Location: I would rather see a dudes hairy balls than his hairy feet-Jimbro
Joined: 12.13.2013

Apr 6 @ 9:05 AM ET
So where 'dont' you want him to go? Devils, Rags??

I think him & Lundqvist will be kissing - sorry, sipping, lattes together somewhere cosy - sorry, handy, to msg.

- Aussiepenguin


Aint happening, as much as I would like it to
eichiefs9
New York Islanders
Location: NY
Joined: 11.03.2008

Apr 6 @ 9:50 AM ET
https://theathletic.com/3...med-the-islanders-season/

Staple does a pretty solid job laying into anyone and everyone about this season, if you have a subscription
mdw7413
New York Rangers
Location: I would rather see a dudes hairy balls than his hairy feet-Jimbro
Joined: 12.13.2013

Apr 6 @ 10:00 AM ET
https://theathletic.com/301854/2018/04/06/staple-breaking-down-the-12-mistakes-that-doomed-the-islanders-season/

Staple does a pretty solid job laying into anyone and everyone about this season, if you have a subscription

- eichiefs9


It just shows how dismal defense and goaltending were when you have that many forwards playing so well. I think if defense and goaltending where even just average you are comfortably in the playoffs
Isleshockeyman
New York Islanders
Location: Lou is our savior
Joined: 11.05.2014

Apr 6 @ 10:02 AM ET
Chris Botta @ChrisBottaNHL
2m
Since Garth Snow became GM in 2006, #Isles have lost 525 of 949 games. Failed to make playoffs 8 of 12 seasons. Still, was told tonight:
- ownership continues to ponder whether to bring him back for a 13th season
- a statement/announcement is likely to be made next week.



- eichiefs9

Remember, you heard it from me first that the dipsh!t will still be the GM.

Is there any chance that this sentence was longer but shortened for twitter? Such as; ownership continues to ponder whether to bring him (into a) back (room and beat him mercilessly with socks full of coins and thumbtacks. Then drop him into a vat of acid so there is no way he'd be here)for a 13th year.
Cptmjl
New York Islanders
Joined: 11.05.2011

Apr 6 @ 10:05 AM ET
https://theathletic.com/301854/2018/04/06/staple-breaking-down-the-12-mistakes-that-doomed-the-islanders-season/

Staple does a pretty solid job laying into anyone and everyone about this season, if you have a subscription

- eichiefs9

But you won't copy and paste it just because you paid for a subscription?
ses111
New York Islanders
Joined: 06.07.2008

Apr 6 @ 10:05 AM ET
It just shows how dismal defense and goaltending were when you have that many forwards playing so well. I think if defense and goaltending where even just average you are comfortably in the playoffs
- mdw7413


It takes a heck of a lot to mess up the offensive season the Isles had. The job the coaching staff did was even worse than the job Garth did and that's saying something.
Cptmjl
New York Islanders
Joined: 11.05.2011

Apr 6 @ 10:05 AM ET
Remember, you heard it from me first that the dipsh!t will still be the GM.

Is there any chance that this sentence was longer but shortened for twitter? Such as; ownership continues to ponder whether to bring him (into a) back (room and beat him mercilessly with socks full of coins and thumbtacks. Then drop him into a vat of acid so there is no way he'd be here)for a 13th year.

- Isleshockeyman

Really?
eichiefs9
New York Islanders
Location: NY
Joined: 11.03.2008

Apr 6 @ 10:07 AM ET
But you won't copy and paste it just because you paid for a subscription?
- Cptmjl

I will, only because someone here used to post the ESPN Insider articles occasionally when I asked




Other than the fans getting a chance to plead their case to John Tavares on Thursday night, the 2017-18 Islanders season is just about done — and it's one of the most disappointing seasons in a long while.

That's saying something for a franchise that has missed the playoffs nine of the last 13 seasons and 16 of the last 25.

There was the arrival of Mathew Barzal, a 15-7-2 start and a franchise-defining moment on Dec. 20, when the team was selected to build an arena at Belmont Park. This should have been a big year for the Islanders.

Instead, they will end the season Saturday in Detroit with many, many questions about the future — and about what derailed this team. Here are 12 instances, big and small, that turned this Islanders season into such a failure:

1. Ownership's handling of the John Tavares situation.

There is plenty of blame to go around as the Islanders captain and cornerstone player heads into the offseason without a contract extension and begins to examine where he'd like to play the next seven or eight seasons. We'll start at the top.

From the time owner Scott Malkin invited Pat Brisson, Tavares' agent, to Barclays Center for the first of at least half a dozen meetings midway through the 2016-17 season, the negotiation — if you can call it that, since there have been no formal offers exchanged — has run through the highest level of the Islanders structure. GM Garth Snow (more on him to come) has a good relationship with both Tavares and Brisson, but Malkin and co-owner Jon Ledecky have been the point people with Tavares' agent for over a year now.

According to numerous sources around the league, it has been Malkin who kept Brisson and, by extension, Tavares, apprised of the arena situation as it unfolded towards the Dec. 20 announcement. Malkin brought Brisson along to meet with Gary Bettman last offseason and Malkin has continued to make trips to Brisson's office in Los Angeles.

So it's clear that ownership has given Tavares and his camp all the latitude from the time last offseason that Tavares told the Isles he wasn't interested in talking about an extension prior to this season — the Islanders acquiesced to Tavares' desire to not be traded and not talk contract at all throughout the year, even as the team tumbled down the standings.

Malkin and Ledecky also made personnel moves that they hoped would convince Tavares to stay. Retaining Snow last April, after Ledecky spoke to roughly 40 people around the league regarding a potential president of hockey operations job, and then making Doug Weight the full-time coach were moves made in part because of both men's relationships with Tavares.

Giving the captain all the leverage regarding his future was a risky strategy last offseason. Making decisions based on influencing Tavares to stay without knowing if he cared or not seems more than risky, it's reckless. The Islanders will still be an NHL franchise whether Tavares stays or goes, yet ownership attacked this situation as if he were the only one that mattered.

2. Garth Snow's handling of the Tavares situation — and so much more.

The GM has taken the brunt of the fans' dissatisfaction with this season and, after four playoff appearances in 12 seasons, Snow's seat has never been hotter. That's justified.

Even with his bosses taking the Tavares contract situation off his table, Snow's relationship with his captain could and should have prompted Snow to do more. He made two strong moves at the draft last June, acquiring Jordan Eberle for Ryan Strome and an unprotected first-rounder plus two seconds from the Flames for Travis Hamonic.

But the contracts Snow signed from June-December of 2016 — Casey Cizikas for five years at $3.35 million per, Andrew Ladd for seven years at $5.5 million, Jason Chimera for two years at $2.25 million and Cal Clutterbuck for five years at $3.5 million — have been huge misses. Chimera was dealt at the deadline for pending UFA Chris Wagner; those two combined for three goals this season.

And the breakdowns, offensively and physically, for the other three have been documented before. The Isles' bottom six forward group is clogged with overpaid, underperforming players, two of whom are on the wrong side of 30; that necessitated a strong approach to either shore up that bottom six with an acquisition or implore Malkin and Ledecky to set a timetable for a Tavares contract, either prior to the June draft or the trade deadline, to improve the roster in some way.

Now, Snow may lose his job or get kicked upstairs with only weeks to go before Tavares makes his choice. Doesn't seem worth it to have sat idly by during this season.

3. Tavares' handling of his own situation.

After 668 games and 620 points, Tavares has been the face of the Islanders ever since he arrived as the sure-fire first pick in 2009. Yes, a few members of the Isles' scouting staff wanted Matt Duchene, but Snow never wavered and all those employees who pushed for Duchene are now former employees. Just to set that record straight.

He has also, as Weight and many others have stated publicly, earned the right to call his shot entering free agency. What Tavares likely never expected when he informed the team of his decision to wait last offseason was that Malkin and company would give in to his every wish and then some. Never in team history has a player so thoroughly controlled his own destiny, as many of the dynasty-era Islanders can attest after they were traded or simply let go once they started to wear down.

Tavares got all he wished for: To take his time this season, not talk contract and not be traded. And here we are, with the team barreling towards the draft lottery once again.

For the captain to say it hasn't affected him or his team is bending the truth at best. He's got his second-highest point total of his career with a game to go, yet he hasn't been a force on possession or at even-strength — his five-on-five Corsi For percentage is 48.7, third-worst of his career (thanks to Natural Stat Trick for the numbers).

Worse still is, in his role as captain, he's the one who sets the tone. He can go to Weight or Snow if he sees something is hurting the team. The Islanders are 18-30-8 since Dec. 1 with the third-fewest points in the league in that span. Tavares could have gone to the coach, the GM or ownership at any time and said, “I've made up my mind.” He could have asked to talk contract and resolve this thing or told them all he's leaving and it's best to make a move to get something for him to allow the franchise he says has been so great to him to start building towards a future without No. 91.

Tavares made some big demands and they were all granted. If he walks away now and points the finger at poor ownership, a bad GM and lousy coaching, what does that say about him?

4. Weight's D-zone adjustment comes too late.

The Islanders started the season 15-7-2. All these months later, it's easy to point to the cracks that were already showing during that heady stretch, but in reality, the Isles were an above-average team in Corsi For percentage at 5v5 (50.6, 12th in the league) and had a .922 even-strength save percentage, which was 16th. They could have won plenty of games playing that way.

But December came, Calvin de Haan and then Johnny Boychuk went down with serious injuries and the Isles' man-on-man defensive-zone style became a mad scramble without two of their smartest and most senior defensemen. Weight seemed to feel his team could stick with the system and newer players could adjust quickly, but the breakdowns started coming everywhere — neutral zone, defensive zone, in goal.

And the coaching staff did not tweak the system until February. In that 10-week span when the Islanders struggled to regain their footing, they were the second-worst team in the league at 45.5 percent CF and gave up 1,031 5v5 shots on goal, 94 more than the next team. At all strengths, they allowed 38.2 shots on goal per game, two full SOG per game more than anyone else.

Also, they were losing — 12-18-4 in that stretch until Weight moved the D zone to more of a zone, allowing the defensemen's eyes to stay forward to find opposing players in soft spots in the slot. That hasn't fixed the whole losing games thing, but they stopped giving up shots and chances by the bushel.

5. No reinforcements on defense in December.

De Haan's major shoulder injury was known just about the minute he left the Barclays Center ice, howling in pain, after the Isles' 4-3 overtime win over the Kings on Dec. 16. Boychuk's nagging leg issues that forced him out from just after Christmas until Feb. 9 were also known then, as was Devon Toews' problematic shoulder that shut him down for the season in Bridgeport.

Toews would have been the call-up to replace Boychuk. Sebastian Aho performed ably in his stint in place of Toews, but does anyone think either of them could have stepped right into a leaking D corps and solidified things? That could only have been done by acquiring a steady veteran.

Cody Franson was also not likely The Answer, but he was an answer of some sort. The Hawks put Franson on waivers on Jan. 8, during the Isles' five-day break and just after a horrific five-game losing streak. Snow declined to put in a claim (as did every other team). Ian Cole was available from the Penguins; again, not the linchpin, but a steady veteran who could have provided a fresh set of eyes and legs to the team.

Cole ended up being swapped in the Derick Brassard deal, then Ottawa flipped him to Columbus for a low-level prospect and a third-rounder. Easily affordable, even if the in-division cost from the Pens was more like a second-rounder — the Isles have two of those in the 2019 draft.

We don't want to be accused of being part of the “do something, anything!” crowd. Those moves don't often make sense. But the Islanders had a huge need and they filled it with Dennis Seidenberg and a 21-year-old in his first North American season.

6. The Josh Ho-Sang conundrum.

Ho-Sang's season mirrored the Isles' season: When he was up, the Islanders were winning. When he was sent down, the losing began in earnest.

It's hard to say Ho-Sang was the main reason, since the defense issues and injuries were spelled out above. But he did provide a threat on the third line and for Brock Nelson, whose season has been low-impact, to say the least. Ho-Sang made mistakes, but that is his game: high-risk, high-reward.

It was much the same when Snow drafted Ho-Sang 28th overall four years ago. The Islanders knew what they were getting in Ho-Sang and he's been quite consistent since he arrived — very talented, very mercurial. Sending him down in December and leaving him there would perhaps teach a wayward player a lesson, but Ho-Sang is no ordinary player or person.

So setting such a hard line with him while the season went up in flames didn't make sense. If the Isles felt like Ho-Sang may never learn, why wouldn't you take advantage of the skill? And there's no use trotting out the “rules are for everyone” line. Different players have different rules and guidelines, even rookies. Ho-Sang is who he is and the Islanders failed to realize that or capitalize on it when their third and fourth lines were offering nothing but goals against in January and February.

Ho-Sang was playing through an injury in January, when Tanner Fritz got the call from Bridgeport. But he should've been up before then. Maybe if you're Weight and you feel you're not getting through to him, sit him out on occasion.

The Islanders needed Ho-Sang this season, problems and all.

7. Veterans on the decline.

The quartet of Islanders mentioned earlier (Ladd, Chimera, Clutterbuck, Cizikas) had serious scoring droughts that the team managed to get through the first half of the season. When the top-line guys started to revert to the mean on shooting percentage, the absence of offense — coupled with the absence of defense — from those four became a glaring weakness.

Ladd, who has two goals in his last 37 games, has put up decent underlying numbers. His CF% of 51.7 is third-best on the roster. But the other three — Chimera is headed to the playoffs with the Ducks, so he's free of this mess — were unable to provide much of anything positive on the fourth line through the majority of the season. None of those three had a CF% above 43.7.

Weight did sit out Chimera a few times before he was dealt on deadline day, but the others — and you can include Nelson in this list, despite him getting to 20 goals — continued to play. It makes sense, given that Weight didn't have many other options and even struggling, Ladd and Nelson were the best options for the third line.

But no matter who is making the decisions going forward, that person is going to need to see more from the third and fourth lines or make some changes.

8. The woeful penalty kill.

Cizikas and Clutterbuck could have justified those contracts by being stalwarts on the PK, as they had been in prior seasons. Tavares, added to the PK rotation last season, was supposed to that as well. But losing Nikolay Kulemin in November was a blow to that group, following by de Haan and Boychuk.

The Islanders killed off 82.4 percent of opposing power plays in 2016-17. With much the same personnel, skaters and goaltenders, plus the same coach in associate Greg Cronin, the Isles are at 73.5 percent entering Saturday's finale.

Once the roster takes shape by July, this is probably the biggest area to fix.

9. Too much leeway for Thomas Greiss.

No goaltender will escape this Islanders season unscathed. The numbers are truly atrocious — 3.6 goals against and an .898 save percentage — so Jaroslav Halak and Greiss are not assured of anything next season. Halak is a free agent and almost certainly headed elsewhere.

Greiss, however, earned a three-year extension last January at $3.3 million per. He will likely get the call on Saturday based solely on the years left on his deal. He managed to win half his starts despite recording an .899 even-strength save percentage, 49th of 50 goalies who made at least 25 appearances this season.

Greiss was struggling even before the Islanders really started to slide but the Isles were outscoring their problems. Once December hit, Greiss allowed at least four goals in 13 of 15 starts. Christopher Gibson did get the call in February when Greiss was out with a high ankle sprain, but in December or January the Isles could have summoned Gibson or made a move for a goaltender to simply change the makeup in goal.

Another reason for Snow to be proactive on the goaltender market during the season: If Greiss isn't the answer as a No. 1 and Halak won't be back, why not go out and find someone like the Wings' Jimmy Howard to come in? Howard has a year left on his deal. There's no guarantee anyone better will be available this offseason, when the Isles will only get 22-year-old Swede Linus Soderstrom into the organization. The answer in goal is still out there and now the Isles will be competing with a few other teams for the meager pickings.

10. No need for the kids?

Aho was a pleasant surprise when he came up at the end of December. His third NHL game was a memorable one, when he scored his only goal and set up Cal Clutterbuck for a late tying score in a shootout win on Jan. 7. His size (5-10, 170) was obviously an issue, but once the calendar flipped to March and the Islanders were losing often, Aho was in street clothes.

Aho was a healthy scratch in nine of the last 11 games before he was sent down on March 23. Given the injury issues with the Islanders and in Bridgeport, it's understandable that no other prospects got a call late in the season. But sitting Aho when the team might have needed to see more of what they have in the young defenseman is a head-scratcher.

11. The Isles' landlord can't even avoid blame.

Barclays Center CEO Brett Yormark was an eager salesman when the Islanders first moved to his arena, even if the team didn't always feel like first-class citizens with few games on weekends and bad ice. Malkin and Ledecky made it clear they were looking for other digs when they took over from Charles Wang. Finding a home at Belmont with the help of the MSG-backed Oak View Group meant the Isles would be direct competitors in a few years with Barclays Center and Nassau Coliseum, where the Isles will split their time the next three seasons in yet another unconventional and fan-unfriendly arrangement.

Yormark then decided to do a brief media tour in February bashing the Isles for “never really embracing Brooklyn.” That can't make things easy on Barclays/Nassau ticket operations — will the fans want to make the trek to Brooklyn for games the next three seasons when their host doesn't want them there?

12. Billboards go up, ownership goes silent.

Ledecky is a front-and-center sort of owner, roaming the corridors at Barclays Center during intermissions, riding the Long Island Rail Road to games with fans and generally willing to talk to anyone and everyone. But when the team fell off the map — and, coincidentally, the two billboards calling for Snow's removal went up in Brooklyn — Ledecky was nowhere to be found.

That's the right of any owner. It's Malkin's and Ledecky's team and they choose what to address and what not to address. But if you want the pats on the back for Belmont and for being so accessible, you can't disappear when times get tough.

Whether the owners intend to keep Snow as GM and/or president after the season ends is immaterial. When the fans are unhappy, it's time to step forward, difficult as that may be.

The lesson from such an incredible collapse should be obvious. Tavares may stay, he may go, but either way, this is a team in dire need of restoration. There needs to be a foundation of defensive hockey to go along with all the high flyers and big scorers. Plenty of other teams can pull that off, so it's not that farfetched to think the Islanders could do so.

But from ownership to management to coaching to star players to pluggers to goaltenders, the Islanders need some sort of attitude adjustment. Whatever they did this season can't be changed with a minor move here or there, or even with ping-pong balls bouncing their way at the draft lottery drawing on April 28.

This will take work. The Islanders got their biggest win in ages with Belmont; do they have what it takes to have a team worth seeing at that new arena three years from now?
Cptmjl
New York Islanders
Joined: 11.05.2011

Apr 6 @ 10:08 AM ET
It takes a heck of a lot to mess up the offensive season the Isles had. The job the coaching staff did was even worse than the job Garth did and that's saying something.
- ses111

Well Snow is responsible for the coaching staff and hired them so there's that so ultimately he did the worse job of all and has been for the last 11 years.
ses111
New York Islanders
Joined: 06.07.2008

Apr 6 @ 10:08 AM ET
Remember, you heard it from me first that the dipsh!t will still be the GM.

Is there any chance that this sentence was longer but shortened for twitter? Such as; ownership continues to ponder whether to bring him (into a) back (room and beat him mercilessly with socks full of coins and thumbtacks. Then drop him into a vat of acid so there is no way he'd be here)for a 13th year.

- Isleshockeyman


It would take some stones for L&M to bring back Garth. It's one thing to have billboard go up about the GM, but fans will turn towards the owners when they have the power to make real changes.
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