Flames should be all over him
- Nucker101

and only play him against Edmonton.

Sea creatures was one of the best
- YuenglingJagr

Tardigrades are on my list of favorite animals

"Couturier has never cracked 40 points, therefore he's a 3C and won't ever be anything more than that."
- Feanor

Here are some actual quotes from a single page of a thread in June. Turns out at least one GM wanted to build his team around Couturier as a first line center, and it was the GM of the team he was already on.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...p?thread_id=145934&page=5

Couter is best served as the teams third line center. He has proven for years now that he lacks confidence on the pp, that he is injury prone, that he is relatively soft like butter and his big body is just a big body unlike for example a Nick Cousins who played big and played in your face Flyer hockey for a smaller man. Despite saying I hope that maybe a miracle occurs and Couter can show the offence he showed in junior. People forget that the Flyers had a 10 game win streak when he was out and when he came back they lost almost 10 straight. Not saying directly it was his fault but kind of a weird stat. I would much rather have traded him and kept Schenn.
- joegreif17

It's not like they never tried. They put him with jake for awhile. It was a disaster. Coots is what he is. A damn good 3C. No reason to reinvent the wheel. He can't keep up with top skill players in this league. 1C he is not I don't care about his possession.
- Just5

Couturier is not a first line center in this league. This is what sets the Couturier detractors off. I'd speculate that there is not a single NHL GM that would consider Couturier a first line center or that would choose to build a team around Couturier as their first line center. He is a solid 2nd line center at ES in this league who can provide solid support offense while playing against top lines. He is absolutely a valuable player for this team.
- MJL

Here are some actual quotes from a single page of a thread in June. Turns out at least one GM wanted to build his team around Couturier as a first line center, and it was the GM of the team he was already on.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...p?thread_id=145934&page=5
- Feanor

I'm surprised and a little disappointed that we don't find any of your #fancy words of wisdom in that thread explaining how, by looking at the data, they were all so very wrong.

If "fancy" includes saying that Couturier would score 50+ points if he got PP1 time, then PSG had that covered.

The only reason he doesn't produce 50 points each season is because he doesn't get top PP time. Put him in Schenn's spot on the PP and you'll all get your precious 50 points from him. Is that the best way to utilize him? Probably not, but it seems that's the only way fans will finally appreciate him.
- PhillySportsGuy

He doesn't get top pp because he doesn't warrant it. He is terrible on the pp. he doesn't produce there.
- rinaldo

He's never even been given a chance to play with the top PP unit, so how would we know?
- PhillySportsGuy

Here are some actual quotes from a single page of a thread in June. Turns out at least one GM wanted to build his team around Couturier as a first line center, and it was the GM of the team he was already on.


Couturier is not a first line center in this league. This is what sets the Couturier detractors off. I'd speculate that there is not a single NHL GM that would consider Couturier a first line center or that would choose to build a team around Couturier as their first line center. He is a solid 2nd line center at ES in this league who can provide solid support offense while playing against top lines. He is absolutely a valuable player for this team.


- Feanor

I stand by that statement 100%. It was an accurate description of Couturier as a player at that point in time.

What I want to see is a post from you predicting that Couturier would produce a 70 point season.

I love looking back at old threads days

I love looking back at old threads days
- YuenglingJagr

If it's true hagg isn't 100% and that's the reason for manning I'm okay with that. We don't have a healthy Morin to recall and we already brought up sanheim and engrained him in the top 4. I just hate that hasktol doesn't say that.

If hagg is being specifically left out cause he didn't play well with gudas and nobody else plays well with gudas you really have to look at who is the problem here.

I understand the initial thought about konecny but late in the game while the rangers had us pinned for pretty make sure the entire final 10 our only good offensive cycle came from tk g and coots. And guess where it started ? In the defensive zone with tk breaking us out. Tk also made a really good interception earlier on the game when he hustled back it would of been a wide open one timer for the rangers. I don't agree that he hasn't shown substantial improvement and continues to. It was scared coaching.

Overall I think hasktol is one of the worst in game coaches in the nhl. Bad challenges. Bad adjustments. Overthinking lines. Playing to not lose instead of win. He has to be better.

If "fancy" includes saying that Couturier would score 50+ points if he got PP1 time, then PSG had that covered.
- Feanor

Before this season, Couturier's career high in PP points was 7. He has 13 to this point. Is that really where he is racking up the points?

I love looking back at old threads days
- YuenglingJagr

I caved and looked.. mono (rip) also made several good arguments on coots being a 1c.

typical Phlily
we trade for a guy facing 10 years in jail

I stand by that statement 100%. It was an accurate description of Couturier as a player at that point in time.
- MJL

No it wasn't. Hetxall was already planing to build his team around Couturier as the 1C.

http://www.delcotimes.com...20171019/SPORTS/171019564

The experiment of moving Claude Giroux to left wing and moving Sean Couturier into an unfamiliar role on a scoring line worked so well over the first two weeks of the Flyers’ season that even general manager Ron Hextall wasn’t averse Thursday to accepting some measure credit for it.

Hextall admitted the move, which was initiated late in training camp by head coach Dave Hakstol, had been discussed during the offseason.

“You get into discussions before camp and you say, ‘OK, who’s going to play with who? How do we finish the year? Who’s got a shot to make the team? Who might surprise us to make the team?’” Hextall said after a morning practice at the Skate Zone. “You go through all scenarios and possibilities, but you’re never there until preseason starts to play out and the pciture become a little clearer. But that’s certainly one of the things we had talked about, whether (Giroux) can play the wing.”

typical Phlily
we trade for a guy facing 10 years in jail
- 2Real

Not adding up to me.. the Superbowl had a 66 year old paraplegic woman working as a security guard and was a part of a security team to deny people field access and bennet pushed through them which apparently was enough for him to be charged with felony intent to injury - which is normally reserved for things like trying to shoot someone but missing - jerry Jones? Racism? Pay back for his Vegas incident ? It doesn't add up based on the current story.

No it wasn't. Hetxall was already planing to build his team around Couturier as the 1C.

http://www.delcotimes.com...20171019/SPORTS/171019564
- Feanor

This. I hate people who give hasktol the credit for it. Coots also asked to be a primary offensive weapon next year and Giroux and him talked about the idea of playing together. It was an organizational idea including the players.

If it's true hagg isn't 100% and that's the reason for manning I'm okay with that. We don't have a healthy Morin to recall and we already brought up sanheim and engrained him in the top 4. I just hate that hasktol doesn't say that.

If hagg is being specifically left out cause he didn't play well with gudas and nobody else plays well with gudas you really have to look at who is the problem here.

I understand the initial thought about konecny but late in the game while the rangers had us pinned for pretty make sure the entire final 10 our only good offensive cycle came from tk g and coots. And guess where it started ? In the defensive zone with tk breaking us out. Tk also made a really good interception earlier on the game when he hustled back it would of been a wide open one timer for the rangers. I don't agree that he hasn't shown substantial improvement and continues to. It was scared coaching.

Overall I think hasktol is one of the worst in game coaches in the nhl. Bad challenges. Bad adjustments. Overthinking lines. Playing to not lose instead of win. He has to be better.
- Tfaehner

You know for a significant period of time, I've been reading your posts and have been in agreement with where you're coming from, but I can't agree with you here.

I agree with the long term approach that Hakstol has concerning how a young player plays in the details of the game. I think it's crucial that those issues are cleared up and that a young player understands that he has to play well in areas without the puck and manage the puck well. Konecny developing into a strong 2 way player will be far more valuable than as a one way offensive forward.

As far as in game coaching, there have certainly been somethings that I've disagreed with but that doesn't automatically make a decision wrong. I think he makes a lot of strong adjustments and one adjustment in particular turned the season around when he made them into a 1-2-2 team instead of a 2-1-2. I strongly disagree that he coaches to not to lose instead of to win. I think he assesses the game situation and adjusts accordingly. I think he's taken a team with holes in it's roster and young developing players and coached them into solid playoff contention. He's done a strong job developing ad guiding the young players. Overall I'm very happy with the job Hakstol has done to this point. I'm not ready to anoint him the coach that is going to lead them to the Cup for right now, he's the correct coach for this team in my opinion.

Before this season, Couturier's career high in PP points was 7. He has 13 to this point. Is that really where he is racking up the points?
- MJL

He has 13 PPP despite not starting the season on PP1. Flip was the slot player to begin 17-18.

Meanwhile, PP2 is worse than it has ever been.

No it wasn't. Hetxall was already planing to build his team around Couturier as the 1C.

http://www.delcotimes.com...20171019/SPORTS/171019564
- Feanor

All that says is they talked about who was going to play with who, and about moving Giroux to Wing. Nothing about building the team around Couturier and anointing him a #1 center.

Again, I want to see some posts predicting Couturier would put up a 70 point season.

He has 13 PPP despite not starting the season on PP1. Flip was the slot player to begin 17-18.

Meanwhile, PP2 is worse than it has ever been.
- Feanor

The point is, Couturier's big boost in point production this year isn't on the PP. 5 points is a modest increase.

This. I hate people who give hasktol the credit for it. Coots also asked to be a primary offensive weapon next year and Giroux and him talked about the idea of playing together. It was an organizational idea including the players.
- Tfaehner

Hextall states that Hakstol initiated the idea, why doesn't he deserve the credit for the move? Who makes out the lineup and tells players where they're playing?

You know for a significant period of time, I've been reading your posts and have been in agreement with where you're coming from, but I can't agree with you here.

I agree with the long term approach that Hakstol has concerning how a young player plays in the details of the game. I think it's crucial that those issues are cleared up and that a young player understands that he has to play well in areas without the puck and manage the puck well. Konecny developing into a strong 2 way player will be far more valuable than as a one way offensive forward.

As far as in game coaching, there have certainly been somethings that I've disagreed with but that doesn't automatically make a decision wrong. I think he makes a lot of strong adjustments and one adjustment in particular turned the season around when he made them into a 1-2-2 team instead of a 2-1-2. I strongly disagree that he coaches to not to lose instead of to win. I think he assesses the game situation and adjusts accordingly. I think he's taken a team with holes in it's roster and young developing players and coached them into solid playoff contention. He's done a strong job developing ad guiding the young players. Overall I'm very happy with the job Hakstol has done to this point. I'm not ready to anoint him the coach that is going to lead them to the Cup for right now, he's the correct coach for this team in my opinion.
- MJL

I think he's an improvement over Berube who was a truly terrible head coach. But 2-1-2 to 1-2-2 was not an in game adjustment. In game adjustment verse adjustment are two different things. And tk had a strong game and I named specific moments where he showed he belonged. His shootout choices (we're still a bad shootout team despite having better talent) his challenges (look at the numbers) and the number of games we have lost late (which I think is partly because of our limited late game lineups). Hak is good at the things outside of the games. Development, schemes, conditioning. But those things only get you so far you have to coach the game.

We have agreed on a lot recently. The one point we have never agreed on is hasktol and that's okay.

All that says is they talked about who was going to play with who, and about moving Giroux to Wing. Nothing about building the team around Couturier and anointing him a #1 center.

Again, I want to see some posts predicting Couturier would put up a 70 point season.
- MJL

You don't have to score 70 points to be a 1C, so why is that a requirement?

Giroux moving to the wing made Couturier the first line center. Unless you're stupid enough to argue Patrick and Filppula were options to play 1C.

You don't have to score 70 points to be a 1C, so why is that a requirement?

Giroux moving to the wing made Couturier the first line center. Unless you're stupid enough to argue Patrick and Filppula were options to play 1C.
- Feanor

I'm looking at in terms of overall player rankings. Some teams are forced to use players in spots that they're not an ideal fit. Just because a team uses a player as a #1 center doesn't mean that player is a legitimate #1 center. Not saying that is the case with Couturier because he has exceeded most people's expectations in scoring this season and has developed into a legit #1 center this season.

For the record, in no way did I think Couturier was going to put up a 70 point season in the NHL. I saw him as a 20 goal, 30 assist, 2nd line center who plays at a Selke level away from the puck. That is how I saw him. That he has become more this season and has shown that I underestimated him is great and I'm very comfortable with and stand by my statement. it's a shame though that you have such bitterness and felt the need to do that.

I'm wondering why you didn't respond to Bill's accurate points he made on Sanheim's game?

I still want to know if you predicted that Couturier would put up a 30 goal, 70 point season.

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AHHHHHHH, DINOSAUR THINKING HOCKEY