Joel Armia is playing 2:39 less a night this year over last year. That's some studly play.
- Wetbandit1

And yet has scored more 5 on 5 with Matt Hendricks, and Andrew Copp as his linemates than 90% of the Sabres.

Kinda wish we had that

Exactly. Eichel was the only one doing it, meaning the others who are paid to aren't (like an offensive d-man)

Im not sure how many d-men these days actually see a radical jump in ceiling/improvement from when they are 23/played 300+ games.

Everyone claims that happened to hedman, but he was far better than anyone ever gave him credit for backed up by the numbers. risto has kind of been the opposite.
- Sabresfan-365

What do you mean by "these days". How can you tell what happens when it hasn't happened yet?

Look, I'm not saying he's going to break out and be this amazing player. I'm saying writing him off as "he is what he is" is shortsighted at best when historically speaking guys don't get good until their 25, 26 regardless of the amount of games played.

And yet has scored more 5 on 5 with Matt Hendricks, and Andrew Copp as his linemates than 90% of the Sabres.

Kinda wish we had that
- sbroads24

Yeah, it's not like he gets to play against scrubs either, playing on a great team. Good players don't see their already little amount of ice time slashed like that.

From Friedmans 31 thoughts:

1. Buffalo GM Jason Botterill took heat for not getting a guaranteed first-rounder in exchange for Evander Kane. Word is one other team raised the possibility of a first-round pick for the winger three or four days prior to the deadline, but pulled the offer when something else came up. That left Botterill with San Jose’s Doug Wilson, who can grind with the best of them.

Botterill had a choice: take what he could or lose Kane for nothing. Look at the deals where opening-round selections were included. Tampa gave up two (potentially) for McDonagh and J.T. Miller. Both have term or team control. Vegas gave up one for Tomas Tatar, still with term. Chicago got one for Ryan Hartman, a restricted free agent. (There was a lot of interest in him.)

Pittsburgh gave up one for Brassard, with another year on his contract. Only two UFAs featured such a return — Rick Nash and Paul Stastny. Botterill tried to build a market, but Kane simply wasn’t as highly valued as Nash. As for Stastny, teams generally don’t ask players to waive full no-trade clauses without reason. Winnipeg gave St. Louis one.

12. There was some indication the Sabres could have gotten a better deal if they moved Kane last summer, but I remembered something Botterill said not long after taking the job. He discussed how you have to be careful to not make decisions based on what you heard, as opposed to what you see. One of Buffalo’s recent issues is spending so much on bad fits. Clearly, they made the choice to find out firsthand what they had. There wasn’t a market for Robin Lehner, either. If Botterill’s discovered anything, it’s that this is a much bigger rebuild than he thought.
- Pegullaville

IMPOSSIBLE!!!

Doesn’t matter. And Roslovic is. So is Konecny, so is Boeser, so is Carlo, so is Aho, so is Fischer, so is Beauvillier, so are a few others.

The 2015 draft is excellent. And it was known to be excellent for a year leading up to it. And we just threw away 3 prime picks.

I mean, I realize how far up the standings O’Reilly and Kane got us over the last few years
- sbroads24

You can't bash a guy for being so poopty and then in the same breath say he'd pick the right guys.

It's laughable.

What do you mean by "these days". How can you tell what happens when it hasn't happened yet?

Look, I'm not saying he's going to break out and be this amazing player. I'm saying writing him off as "he is what he is" is shortsighted at best when historically speaking guys don't get good until their 25, 26 regardless of the amount of games played.
- Wetbandit1

I'm that good

and it's not short sighted if there's been minimal or no improvement in those 300 games.

Yeah, it's not like he gets to play against scrubs either, playing on a great team. Good players don't see their already little amount of ice time slashed like that.
- Wetbandit1

It’s not his fault he is on the team with the deepest group of wingers in the league.

He is better than literally anyone in our bottom 6, hands down

I'm that good

and it's not short sighted if there's been minimal or no improvement in those 300 games.
- Sabresfan-365

Didn’t we go through this exact same argument like 4 years ago with a certain player who never managed to be a #1 D man?

You can't bash a guy for being so poopty and then in the same breath say he'd pick the right guys.

It's laughable.
- Wetbandit1

The way that draft is shaking out, would have been pretty hard not to pick one of the right guys.

Not sure how it’s not that obvious by now

It’s not his fault he is on the team with the deepest group of wingers in the league.

He is better than literally anyone in our bottom 6, hands down
- sbroads24

There's a high bar.

I'm not disputing he's a 3rd liner. But when you're a real 3rd liner playing very few minutes against 4th liners or borderline NHL players and you CAN'T score, there's a problem.

Larry Quinn says Hello

There's a high bar.

I'm not disputing he's a 3rd liner. But when you're a real 3rd liner playing very few minutes against 4th liners or borderline NHL players and you CAN'T score, there's a problem.
- Wetbandit1

Can’t score?

He has 1 less 5 on 5 goal than the great Evander Kane in almost 400 less 5 on 5 minutes. With worse linemates.

He’s actually not bad, at all

Didn’t we go through this exact same argument like 4 years ago with a certain player who never managed to be a #1 D man?
- sbroads24

Who? Myers? Myers went the wrong direction. His eye test went in the wrong direction, he looked disinterested, tentative.

Risto, while making mistakes largely because he plays all the minutes, has gotten more aggressive both offensively and in front of the net. And his points are trending in the right direction while Myers' dropped off a cliff. And he couldn't stay on the ice. Risto has had one injury that made him miss time in all those minutes played.

Girgensons-O'Reilly-Reinhart
Wilson-Rodrigues-Pominville
Pouliot-Larsson-Baptiste
Nolan-Josefson-Griffith

Scandella-Ristolainen
Antipin-Nelson
Beaulieu-Falk
Gorges


Sweet Mary and Joseph.
- TheSabresTaco

“Fallin for Dahlin”

So we have a game tonight...

Can’t score?

He has 1 less 5 on 5 goal than the great Evander Kane in almost 400 less 5 on 5 minutes. With worse linemates.

He’s actually not bad, at all
- sbroads24

Sorry, that was poorly worded, I'm saying yes, he can score. Largely because he's playing against poopty players, not because he's "studly".

Joel Armia is playing 2:39 less a night this year over last year. That's some studly play.
- Wetbandit1

Stop disproving Winnipeg trolls. They said we gave them nothing but gold and they gave us nothing but crap, end of discussion.

So we have a game tonight...


- feetontheair22

I'm ready for Seth Griffith, part deux.

And yet has scored more 5 on 5 with Matt Hendricks, and Andrew Copp as his linemates than 90% of the Sabres.

Kinda wish we had that
- sbroads24

Weird how players on good teams score more 5v5 than bad teams

Easy example
Pominville last year VS Pominville this year

Who? Myers? Myers went the wrong direction. His eye test went in the wrong direction, he looked disinterested, tentative.

Risto, while making mistakes largely because he plays all the minutes, has gotten more aggressive both offensively and in front of the net. And his points are trending in the right direction while Myers' dropped off a cliff. And he couldn't stay on the ice. Risto has had one injury that made him miss time in all those minutes played.
- Wetbandit1

id wager his 5v5 numbers look very similar to myers. Risto is trending in the wrong direction in both categories, i dont know how thats up for debate anymore.

The risto analytics debate was en fuego last year, now it's like "yeah whatever can we just be good again? "

“Fallin for Dahlin”
- jdfitz77

right to the Oilers

right to the Oilers
- SABRES 89

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
- jdfitz77

Yes

I'm ready for Seth Griffith, part deux.
- Wetbandit1

This is very exciting.

id wager his 5v5 numbers look very similar to myers. Risto is trending in the wrong direction in both categories, i dont know how thats up for debate anymore.

The risto analytics debate was en fuego last year, now it's like "yeah whatever can we just be good again? "
- Sabresfan-365

5v5 numbers are bogus
I get what you’re trying to say with them
But comparing the 5v5 stats from a good team & a bad team aren’t valid

Take a look at 5v5 stats and you’ll find many many examples that make no sense

It’s not that they’re “outliers”
It’s that there’s a bunch of factors that go into a player’s production
And those factors are greatly helped when you’re on a good team,
VS when you’re on a bad team