If you think a guy who scores 30 goals is a bottom six player you are delusional.

All of that "deep draft" stuff is nonsense too. They said last year's draft was the weakest draft in ages and a lot of good players have come out of it already. Take that draft stuff with a grain of salt.

We need a right wingers. find better solutions that trading for one that fits into the team well.
- Pomegrant

Grabner scored 30 goals once back in 2010-2011. What he scored in NY does not guarantee that he'll score like that in NJ.

Deep draft refers to the talent level of players past the 1st round. Teams behind the Devils are not lighting it up, they are losing more then we are.

Giving up a 2nd pick for a UFA is not a smart move. The Devils are not loaded with prospects to begin with.

Also, I believe he has 7 empty net goals.

Grabner scored 30 goals once back in 2010-2011. What he scored in NY does not guarantee that he'll score like that in NJ.

Deep draft refers to the talent level of players past the 1st round. Teams behind the Devils are not lighting it up, they are losing more then we are.

Giving up a 2nd pick for a UFA is not a smart move. The Devils are not loaded with prospects to begin with.

Also, I believe he has 7 empty net goals.
- Devils9503

He does have a lot of empty net goals, which we actually need help with lol, so that's a plus honestly. But he ranks in the top 10 in 5v5 goals per 60, which is excluding his empty net goals

He does have a lot of empty net goals, which we actually need help with lol, so that's a plus honestly. But he ranks in the top 10 in 5v5 goals per 60, which is excluding his empty net goals
- vlongo4419

Like I said though, just because he did it in NY does not mean he'll score like that in NJ.

Grabner scored 30 goals once back in 2010-2011. What he scored in NY does not guarantee that he'll score like that in NJ.

Deep draft refers to the talent level of players past the 1st round. Teams behind the Devils are not lighting it up, they are losing more then we are.

Giving up a 2nd pick for a UFA is not a smart move. The Devils are not loaded with prospects to begin with.

Also, I believe he has 7 empty net goals.
- Devils9503

He has 25 goals this year on a trash NY team. Nobody can predict the future and there are no guarantees in life. Just like there are no guarantees the 2nd round pick pans out into anything.

"deep draft" is just intangible stuff that has no meaning. I've heard "deep drafts" that were all busts later on. who cares. People make too big a deal about prospects when the vast majority don't even get a sniff at the NHL.

Grabner being UFA status means that we got to get him for less than if he had term left. We'll get to negotiate with him first for an extension, which is needed because we have no RWs.

What's the problem here.

Like I said though, just because he did it in NY does not mean he'll score like that in NJ.
- Devils9503

He had 2 awful years, 2015-16 in toronto and 2013-14 with the isles(semi-bad), other than that he's honestly put up respectable numbers. Nobody knows how he's gonna play after the trade, but if he gives us some of what he's given the rangers then i dont mind it, its a big upgrade to secondary scoring and he fits our system

He has 25 goals this year on a trash NY team. Nobody can predict the future and there are no guarantees in life. Just like there are no guarantees the 2nd round pick pans out into anything.

"deep draft" is just intangible stuff that has no meaning. I've heard "deep drafts" that were all busts later on. who cares. People make too big a deal about prospects when the vast majority don't even get a sniff at the NHL.

Grabner being UFA status means that we got to get him for less than if he had term left. We'll get to negotiate with him first for an extension, which is needed because we have no RWs.

What's the problem here.
- Pomegrant

Just to quicken this disagreement, what do you think is an acceptable goal/point total playing for the Devils?

By the way, I would of given up the 2nd for Hjalmarsson.

He had 2 awful years, 2015-16 in toronto and 2013-14 with the isles(semi-bad), other than that he's honestly put up respectable numbers. Nobody knows how he's gonna play after the trade, but if he gives us some of what he's given the rangers then i dont mind it, its a big upgrade to secondary scoring and he fits our system
- vlongo4419

You: "We needed secondary scoring"

Me: "If we needed secondary scoring, why give up Henrique?"

You: "Because we needed defense."

Me: "We needed LHD defense during the 2015(Provorov)/2016(Chychrun) drafts but drafted the lesser ceiling players."

Just curious what you're gonna say.

Just to quicken this disagreement, what do you think is an acceptable goal/point total playing for the Devils?
- Devils9503

what does this even mean?

grabner is the default best RW on the team now. what's the problem.

You: "We needed secondary scoring"

Me: "If we needed secondary scoring, why give up Henrique?"

You: "Because we needed defense."

Me: "We needed LHD defense during the 2015(Provorov)/2016(Chychrun) drafts but drafted the lesser ceiling players."

Just curious what you're gonna say.
- Devils9503

Nobody can predict injuries, when we traded Henrique i dont believe either MoJo or Gibbons were out of the lineup, MoJo is a definitive top 6 forward for us that has been limited to 29 games this season. If he's healthy and producing, do we make this trade? Not sure, but this trade is telling me he's probably done for the season. We had a need at wing, specifically the right side, and Shero went out and got a winger to fill a top 6 role in that spot.

As for not drafting Provorov or Chychrun, I have no comment towards, I was praying we took Prov with that pick, but we didn't. Can't change that now. Zacha is starting to turn the corner a bit, but Prov would've been so nice to have. Vatanen trade was definitely necessary, and he's settling in very well now

what does this even mean?

grabner is the default best RW on the team now. what's the problem.
- Pomegrant

It means how many goals/points is acceptable to say it was worth trading a 2nd. 5 goals? 10 points? How many?

Palmieri is the best RW. We have Stafford and Noesen as RW not hard to be better then them.

Nobody can predict injuries, when we traded Henrique i dont believe either MoJo or Gibbons were out of the lineup, MoJo is a definitive top 6 forward for us that has been limited to 29 games this season. If he's healthy and producing, do we make this trade? Not sure, but this trade is telling me he's probably done for the season. We had a need at wing, specifically the right side, and Shero went out and got a winger to fill a top 6 role in that spot.
- vlongo4419

My problem is Mojo is a 40 point player and so is Riley Smith. Smith was available and cheaper and now we have no 2nd(we had two) or 3rd(had two also). Those picks could of been used to move up in the draft, is my point.

It means how many goals/points is acceptable to say it was worth trading a 2nd. 5 goals? 10 points? How many?

Palmieri is the best RW. We have Stafford and Noesen as RW not hard to be better then them.
- Devils9503

I don't think anybody has a quantified system in which draft pick equates to expected point totals. Why don't you say you number, because it's a useless exercise.

Palmieri is having a bad season. Was he worth a 2nd round draft pick? of course he was. Grabner is having a good season, but he isn't worth a 2nd? What Hall not worth Larsson because he only had 50 points last season?

You can prove anything is good or bad by cherry picking whatever parameters you want.

A never to hit the NHL d prospect plus pick 50ish+ or so for a 20+ goal scorer. Why are we crying about this? It’s a decent deal.

Now if we can do something about the D at some point ..../

My problem is Mojo is a 40 point player and so is Riley Smith. Smith was available and cheaper and now we have no 2nd(we had two) or 3rd(had two also). Those picks could of been used to move up in the draft, is my point.
- Devils9503

in what world are you living in which the average 2nd round draft pick is better than Johansson?

It means how many goals/points is acceptable to say it was worth trading a 2nd. 5 goals? 10 points? How many?

Palmieri is the best RW. We have Stafford and Noesen as RW not hard to be better then them.
- Devils9503

Stafford eats donkey balls. Bratt is playing on his off wing, Gibbons has a broken finger, Bastian is at least a year away and for some reason this team won’t give Lappin a fair shake. Grabner at worst is a 3rd line RW. A 2nd is a fair price, especially considering depth dmen go for late 1sts at the deadline.

in what world are you living in which the average 2nd round draft pick is better than Johansson?
- Pomegrant

Dude we got Mojo, Palmieri and now Grabner for 2nds. Each of them is a 20 goal 40 point player and we are crying about it. Stop trying to be reasonable.

Dude we got Mojo, Palmieri and now Grabner for 2nds. Each of them is a 20 goal 40 point player and we are crying about it. Stop trying to be reasonable.
- smellmyfinger

i'm not sure why people aren't angrier about the Mueller trade because that was actually a questionable one. He's been decent this year, but it's been in limited minutes, despite injury.

I don't think anybody has a quantified system in which draft pick equates to expected point totals. Why don't you say you number, because it's a useless exercise.

Palmieri is having a bad season. Was he worth a 2nd round draft pick? of course he was. Grabner is having a good season, but he isn't worth a 2nd? What Hall not worth Larsson because he only had 50 points last season?

You can prove anything is good or bad by cherry picking whatever parameters you want.
- Pomegrant

The Devils didn't need Grabner. That's the point. Teams behind us are losing more then winning. So giving up a 2nd for a guy we didn't need is just making a trade to make one.

When we traded for Palmieri, he was not worth a 2nd and 3rd, he had a career 31 points, it just worked out.

i'm not sure why people aren't angrier about the Mueller trade because that was actually a questionable one. He's been decent this year, but it's been in limited minutes, despite injury.
- Pomegrant

That was a terrible trade from the beginning.

The Devils didn't need Grabner. That's the point. Teams behind us are losing more then winning. So giving up a 2nd for a guy we didn't need is just making a trade to make one.

When we traded for Palmieri, he was not worth a 2nd and 3rd, he had a career 31 points, it just worked out.
- Devils9503

this post really summarizes why nothing you're saying is important.

in what world are you living in which the average 2nd round draft pick is better than Johansson?
- Pomegrant

Subban, Weber, Bergeron were all 2nds. In fact all three were drafted at about the spot the Devils will be picking.

this post really summarizes why nothing you're saying is important.
- Pomegrant

Palmieri had 14 goals and 31 points as career totals, he played for 5 years. He would be a RFA and under control.

I don't see Grabner contributing to the team like Palmieri has.

Subban, Weber, Bergeron were all 2nds. In fact all three were drafted at about the spot the Devils will be picking.
- Devils9503

learning about statistics and aggregate data. you've found great players who were drafted in that position, yes, but those are outliers. The vast majority of players drafted in the second round never become established roster players. Each round you move on it's less and less likely. You can even take examples of the 2nd round of singular drafts (low sample size) and see how majority of players don't pan out.

The flaw in your logic is that you can find great players in the 2nd round rather than looking at the average of what a 2nd rounder player is.

Stafford eats donkey balls. Bratt is playing on his off wing, Gibbons has a broken finger, Bastian is at least a year away and for some reason this team won’t give Lappin a fair shake. Grabner at worst is a 3rd line RW. A 2nd is a fair price, especially considering depth dmen go for late 1sts at the deadline.
- smellmyfinger

I don't think Bastian will anything more than a 4th liner, if that.

learning about statistics and aggregate data. you've found great players who were drafted in that position, yes, but those are outliers. The vast majority of players drafted in the second round never become established roster players. Each round you move on it's less and less likely. You can even take examples of the 2nd round of singular drafts (low sample size) and see how majority of players don't pan out.

The flaw in your logic is that you can find great players in the 2nd round rather than looking at the average of what a 2nd rounder player is.
- Pomegrant

I have no problem giving up the 2nd, just for the right player. We needed help on defense more then forward. If we gave up our 2nd for Hjalmarsson, then I'd be fine with that because he would solidify the defense(top 4, maybe even top pair) and give us a better chance to win against WSH or PIT in the first round, Grabner doesn't IMO.