There is nothing wrong with the coach. Nothing. It's all bowman. It's not bad trades it's industrial strength bad trades. Oh by the way Panarin is leading Columbus with 38 points making stan the biggest fool in history exactly as I said would happen many times on this board.
- Savoy

Panarin is currently on pace for about 20 goals - 10 below his two year career NHL average. So how do you figure he has been so much better than Saad??

Do you really think Columbus wants to pay a 20 goal scorer - with a habit of disappearing once the playoffs stars 6 million a year?? Really??

Cost control cannot be taken lightly. I believe I should sacrifice our best players 2 or 3 years early because I am certain that nobody will retire or be injured or otherwise not be on this team for any of a thousand other reasons and I can predict this future precisely so
I'm going to break up one of the highest scoring lines in the entire league because we win too many games. I'm going to get a nice (not great) player in return as well as a minor league goalie. I guess the message I'm sending is that I will show everybody that I favor 19 way over Kane. In fact I favor 19 over the good of all the other players on this team. But don't worry we will have another highest scoring line in about 30 to 45 years as long as there is a different gm. Then I'm going to ship Darling off because there is no chance whatsoever that Crawford will ever need a replacement but just to be sure I'm going to give away our best shutdown defenseman and get back a minor league defenceman and a forward who was not even in Arizona's top 15 prospects.
- Savoy

Maybe Bowman figured and rightly so that he'd be fired before all these chickens came home to roost but such is not the case yet. How anybody could possibly think that they could never ever be able to afford Panarin several years down the road with the large number of changes that occur all the time between the end of last year and several years from now sounds like it could be a result of some type of medication failure.

Panarin is currently on pace for about 20 goals - 10 below his two year career NHL average. So how do you figure he has been so much better than Saad??

Do you really think Columbus wants to pay a 20 goal scorer - with a habit of disappearing once the playoffs stars 6 million a year?? Really??
- dahawks8819

Ah yes I love the blame game on Artemi Panarin for the playoff losses. As this year has shown, Hawks don't even make the playoffs without Panarin's scoring throughout the regular season. Ohhh the irony of trading the "Regular Season" player in Panarin for the "Playoff Player" in Saad and then not making the playoffs at all.

Panarin is currently on pace for about 20 goals - 10 below his two year career NHL average. So how do you figure he has been so much better than Saad??

Do you really think Columbus wants to pay a 20 goal scorer - with a habit of disappearing once the playoffs stars 6 million a year?? Really??
- dahawks8819

I pointed this out after the trade was made:

Saad only has his reputation of "showing up in the playoffs" because he was in the right place at the right time on the most stacked roster and the best team in the NHL. If you swapped him out with Panarin from 2013-2015 nothing changes for the team.

Also....if you swapped out Panarin with Saad either of these past 2 seasons we're still getting bounced in the first round. And then it would be Saad who "has a habit of disappearing once the playoffs start".

This concept is fairly easy to grasp....and yet i still keep seeing people say these things when comparing the 2 players. Its nonsense. Its as flawed as any argument can possibly be.

In a vacuum, Panarin is HANDS DOWN the better all around hockey player.

To be honest i thought it was closer until watching Saad play this year. He's really nothing special. At least Panarin is without debate the best forward on his team, and clearly an all-star caliber talent.

I pointed this out after the trade was made:

Saad only has his reputation of "showing up in the playoffs" because he was in the right place at the right time on the most stacked roster and the best team in the NHL. If you swapped him out with Panarin from 2013-2015 nothing changes for the team.

Also....if you swapped out Panarin with Saad either of these past 2 seasons we're still getting bounced in the first round. And then it would be Saad who "has a habit of disappearing once the playoffs start".

This concept is fairly easy to grasp....and yet i still keep seeing people say these things when comparing the 2 players. Its nonsense. Its as flawed as any argument can possibly be.

In a vacuum, Panarin is HANDS DOWN the better all around hockey player.

To be honest i thought it was closer until watching Saad play this year. He's really nothing special.
- SimpleJack

I like that trade, and I like to low-risk/high-reward trade for Duclair. At what point does Q separate Saad and Toews? Schmaltz and Toews had a great stretch of hockey together last year. If the offense continues to stagnate, I'd go with this....

Schmaltz-Toews-Duclair
Saad-Anisimov-Kane
Debrincat-Kampf-Hartman
Sharp-Wingels-Hayden
- EnzoD

Enzo. I kinda like this.

I pointed this out after the trade was made:

Saad only has his reputation of "showing up in the playoffs" because he was in the right place at the right time on the most stacked roster and the best team in the NHL. If you swapped him out with Panarin from 2013-2015 nothing changes for the team.

Also....if you swapped out Panarin with Saad either of these past 2 seasons we're still getting bounced in the first round. And then it would be Saad who "has a habit of disappearing once the playoffs start".

This concept is fairly easy to grasp....and yet i still keep seeing people say these things when comparing the 2 players. Its nonsense. Its as flawed as any argument can possibly be.

In a vacuum, Panarin is HANDS DOWN the better all around hockey player.

To be honest i thought it was closer until watching Saad play this year. He's really nothing special. At least Panarin is without debate the best forward on his team, and clearly an all-star caliber talent.
- SimpleJack

Saad was also very good in Columbus. It's really only this year that he hasn't looked like a great all around player. Panarin is, hands down, a better scorer for sure.

This isn't rocket science. This is what happens when you have to rebuild your roster.

Once they finish the turnover - and they're making strides - they have to play together for a year or two. Like...14-15 of them and re-establish a core. The system the Hawks play takes time and they need to play in it together. Hence the massive inconsistency.

Hjarllmarsson was a good move. He's broken down in AZ and would be broken down here, a contract year.

Toews, Kane and Keith may be the only ones here in 2-3yrs for one more cup run for those 3.

Seabrook I could see being bought out. Crawford can be a very good trade chip - and this may be the best year to trade him IF he comes back. Anisimov too. Use those to try to find a younger Dman.
- PatShart

Per CapFriendly.com, if Seabrook's contract now carrying an annual cap hit of $6.875M through 2023-24 season was bought out, the Hawks would have a cap hit of $3.319M in 2018-19, $3.819M in 2019-2020, $6.819M in 2020-21, $3.819 in 2021--22, $6.819 in 2022-23, $5.319 in 2023-24, and then $0.944M in each of the seasons 2024-25 through 2029-30!! YIKES!! Better hope for LTIR for Seabs or new buyout provision under new CBA.

As to Crow (who reportedly exercised his NTC to kill a deal last year), it's doubtful another team would give much in view of his "vertigo/post concussion"problems in early 2016 and again this year, not to mention his age and other injuries the past few years. If he gets healthy, the Hawks, having no other elite/potentially elite goalie in their system, need him badly; if he doesn't get healthy, the Hawks will likely LTIR him as well.

The bottom line is that the Hawks had a great run while it lasted, and we all should be grateful for that. They are now already in rebuild mode. Q has been desperately trying to extend the playoff run (perhaps on orders from above), but other than Kane and Crow, the core has badly regressed, and the new guys haven't yet (and may never) sufficiently develop.

So Rocky and McD need to:

1) Acknowledge (to the fan base as well as themselves) where the Hawks really are at, and see whether the fan base will stay the course, perhaps supported by significant ticket price drops, through the retooling.

2) Decide whether Q is the right guy to lead a retooling (if he even wants to), and whether Stanbo is the right guy to make the draft picks and trades necessary to turn them into serious Cup contenders over the next few years. IMO I think a new coach and new GM are both desirable.

3) Make the correct GM choice if they do replace Stanbo.

The soap opera that is the Blackhawks should continue to be interesting, to say the least.

Enzo. I kinda like this.
- kwolf68

I second that. Schmaltz and Toews were killer together last year and Saad can really benefit with Kane.

Panarin is currently on pace for about 20 goals - 10 below his two year career NHL average. So how do you figure he has been so much better than Saad??

Do you really think Columbus wants to pay a 20 goal scorer - with a habit of disappearing once the playoffs stars 6 million a year?? Really??
- dahawks8819

Panarin was a point-per-game in the St. Louis series and just as bad as anyone else in the Nashville series. The 'disappearing playoff' story is bullpoop

Panarin was a point-per-game in the St. Louis series and just as bad as anyone else in the Nashville series. The 'disappearing playoff' story is bullpoop
- ObeseOprah

Not when the whole team disappears. Panarin is technically part of the whole team, therefore he disappeared.

I second that. Schmaltz and Toews were killer together last year and Saad can really benefit with Kane.
- JRoenick97

All these lines are great to talk about, but they aren't going to do a friggin thing unless they figure out their own end and transition game.

The last Winnipeg game was the best that I think they have played all year against a strong team. Great on the PK, lots of possession time in the ozone, breaking up rushes on their own blueline, and guys taking the quick and easy outs out of the zone.

Forsling and Keith especially have been their own worst enemies this year when they try to make some cute pass in their own zone around the net. I swear, if I see that between the legs pass from Keith into the slot in front of our goalie one more time, I'm throwing my TV.

All these lines are great to talk about, but they aren't going to do a friggin thing unless they figure out their own end and transition game.

The last Winnipeg game was the best that I think they have played all year against a strong team. Great on the PK, lots of possession time in the ozone, breaking up rushes on their own blueline, and guys taking the quick and easy outs out of the zone.

Forsling and Keith especially have been their own worst enemies this year when they try to make some cute pass in their own zone around the net. I swear, if I see that between the legs pass from Keith into the slot in front of our goalie one more time, I'm throwing my TV.
- Chunk

You're right, honestly. The team ins't hurting for offense, shots, or chances, they are just bleeding good chances against.

Saad was also very good in Columbus. It's really only this year that he hasn't looked like a great all around player. Panarin is, hands down, a better scorer for sure.
- JRoenick97

Panarin much better OFFENSIVE player

SAAD much better ALL AROUND player

The rebuild is finally on...Bouma is scratched

Blackhawks this morning:

Saad-Toews-Duclair
Sharp-Schmaltz-Kane
DeBrincat-Anisimov-Hartman
Jurco-Kampf-Hinostroza

Bouma and Wingels likely scratched.

— Mark Lazerus (@MarkLazerus) January 22, 2018

- DarthKane

fine but sharp has no business near top line role with kane

You're right, honestly. The team ins't hurting for offense, shots, or chances, they are just bleeding good chances against.
- JRoenick97

That's the real "pisser" though -- for anyone who's played the game, it (all of this) comes down to effort more than anything else.

All things being equal, if you ice guys that are NHL-caliber (meaning they can skate well and have a solid understanding of the game), it boils down the "want to" versus just lack of talent. Not saying they are equal to the top teams but there is a problem IMO on this club in giving a complete effort.

I heard on NBC's national game yesterday: "It's not what we say in the room that matters, it's what we do out on the ice."

I didn't catch who said it and if they were quoting a player.
This sort of quote is the kind we have heard before IOW from #19 and #2.
And to be honest, from #88.

And the only player living up to that at all is Kane.
From year-to-year he dedicates to improving some aspect of his game.
Comes to camp in-shape and we see him exhibit better skills every year.

Somehow I have to believe that stuff is noticed and taken seriously in the room. Toews and Keith can yack all they want to reporters and they can yack all they want to their teammates. However, actions speak louder than words. Don't think for a moment that guys in the room making 1/10 or 1/15 of what #19 makes can see he's not giving full effort -- whines to the refs endlessly and leads the team in penalties taken (at least last time I looked).

Yeah, I happen to believe a big part of the problem is in the room.

All these lines are great to talk about, but they aren't going to do a friggin thing unless they figure out their own end and transition game.

The last Winnipeg game was the best that I think they have played all year against a strong team. Great on the PK, lots of possession time in the ozone, breaking up rushes on their own blueline, and guys taking the quick and easy outs out of the zone.

Forsling and Keith especially have been their own worst enemies this year when they try to make some cute pass in their own zone around the net. I swear, if I see that between the legs pass from Keith into the slot in front of our goalie one more time, I'm throwing my TV.
- Chunk

Although I love projecting lineups and suggesting my own combinations, I agree that whatever the lineup happens to be won't make a significant difference. Some have talked about it already but I am starting to believe that the way Vegas plays may start to be a winning formula for many teams.

You don't need a bunch of elite players to be championship caliber. It helps but maybe not required anymore. What seems to matter more is having all players play a full 60 minutes, outwork the other team, and keep things to the fundamentals AND have a coach that stresses all of this and holds players accountable.

Do we have the horses to do that? Not really if the whole "country club atmosphere" is true and the current core is too tired or too entitled.

So this is where getting younger, faster, and tougher to play against is a good strategy that Bowman seems to be gravitating to, IMHO. Let the youngsters grow together, take their lumps, learn from mistakes, etc. Also, develop prospects the right way whether in Rockford or their respective junior leagues, college teams, European squads, etc.

Is Q the coach to guide them? I say no. Is Bowman the GM to continue with the rebuilding on the fly to get younger, faster, and tougher to play against? Sure, although I think there could be other potential GMs who could do the same. My money is on Q departing within the next half year (possibly along with Dineen) and Bowman staying put.

Panarin much better OFFENSIVE player

SAAD much better ALL AROUND player
- glennjpawlak22

Yes, agree with this succinct analysis. Panarin is by far the superior offensive player, but Saad is by far the better player in all 3 zones.

I like that trade, and I like to low-risk/high-reward trade for Duclair. At what point does Q separate Saad and Toews? Schmaltz and Toews had a great stretch of hockey together last year. If the offense continues to stagnate, I'd go with this....

Schmaltz-Toews-Duclair
Saad-Anisimov-Kane
Debrincat-Kampf-Hartman
Sharp-Wingels-Hayden
- EnzoD

I wouldn't mind even seeing Saad and ADB flipped with what you have. Saad Kampf Hartman would be an interesting 3rd line IMO.

I got yelled at for suggesting that you guys would be well-served in doing whatever it took to get out from under that Seabrook contract after the Nashville series.

I was respectful in how I said it then, and now: Nothing can take away from what the franchise has accomplished since 2010. It's not a crime to get old.

But this team needs to, again, get out from under Seabrook by any means necessary, look quietly if there is a landing spot for Toews, and embrace the draft this year and next
- AllInForFlyers

Seabrook is a key part to the leadership in that room... been the de facto Captain of this team for a long time. Now, this doesn't outweigh his on-ice performance and contract at this point in his career however, Stan is not going to attach a Dylan Sikura or Debrincat to him for a 3rd round pick at this point.

The Hawks might just have to bite the bullet on Seabs for now as they need those younger players more than ever.

All these lines are great to talk about, but they aren't going to do a friggin thing unless they figure out their own end and transition game.

The last Winnipeg game was the best that I think they have played all year against a strong team. Great on the PK, lots of possession time in the ozone, breaking up rushes on their own blueline, and guys taking the quick and easy outs out of the zone.

Forsling and Keith especially have been their own worst enemies this year when they try to make some cute pass in their own zone around the net. I swear, if I see that between the legs pass from Keith into the slot in front of our goalie one more time, I'm throwing my TV.
- Chunk

Why throw your TV? Throw Keith's instead!

Even if that were true about Schmaltz (which it's not) why would any other GM give the Hawks anything of value for Schmaltz?

Hartman is a different type of player than Shaw, they're not a one-for-one comparison. If anything, Hartman is more like Bolland than Shaw. I think it's hard to compare Hartman to either guy. Bolland and Shaw were playing on the team in their prime, Hartman is playing on the team's downward slide. Shaw isn't doing too great on a below average Montreal team, he wouldn't be doing much better here.

There are two things I want the Hawks to do during this transition period:

1. Don't make any panic trades (not to be confused with Panik trade). Stan has been pretty good in this regard, so I don't expect he will.

2. Continue to be a first class organization that players want to play for. Even though the team isn't winning now they can keep a winning culture and still be a choice destination (to some degree).
- DarthKane

I believe Nick Schmaltz is going to around for a while. He and Patrick Kane are really bonding and apparently spending a lot of time together as friends off-the-ice.

Nick might have been a bum in the gym in the past, but he's getting a real taste from one of the best in #88 on what he needs to do to be an elite professional.

That's the real "pisser" though -- for anyone who's played the game, it (all of this) comes down to effort more than anything else.

All things being equal, if you ice guys that are NHL-caliber (meaning they can skate well and have a solid understanding of the game), it boils down the "want to" versus just lack of talent. Not saying they are equal to the top teams but there is a problem IMO on this club in giving a complete effort.

I heard on NBC's national game yesterday: "It's not what we say in the room that matters, it's what we do out on the ice."

I didn't catch who said it and if they were quoting a player.
This sort of quote is the kind we have heard before IOW from #19 and #2.
And to be honest, from #88.

And the only player living up to that at all is Kane.
From year-to-year he dedicates to improving some aspect of his game.
Comes to camp in-shape and we see him exhibit better skills every year.

Somehow I have to believe that stuff is noticed and taken seriously in the room. Toews and Keith can yack all they want to reporters and they can yack all they want to their teammates. However, actions speak louder than words. Don't think for a moment that guys in the room making 1/10 or 1/15 of what #19 makes can see he's not giving full effort -- whines to the refs endlessly and leads the team in penalties taken (at least last time I looked).

Yeah, I happen to believe a big part of the problem is in the room.
- savvyone-1

You may be right, but I'm just focusing on thing I can quantify. They are giving up huge chances in close with 2 rookie goalies. Our d-core outside of 3 guys doesn't even have a season full of games under their belts. We need a shutdown pair if we're even going to think about pushing for a wild card spot.

I believe Nick Schmaltz is going to around for a while. He and Patrick Kane are really bonding and apparently spending a lot of time together as friends off-the-ice.

Nick might have been a bum in the gym in the past, but he's getting a real taste from one of the best in #88 on what he needs to do to be an elite professional.
- Justin Lowe

Schmaltz is untouchable in my eyes. He's got the most talent on the team outside of Kane. I know one dude on here doesn't like him for whatever reason he's made up, but he's top tier talent, and you don't just trade that away in the guys second year.

You may be right, but I'm just focusing on thing I can quantify. They are giving up huge chances in close with 2 rookie goalies. Our d-core outside of 3 guys doesn't even have a season full of games under their belts. We need a shutdown pair if we're even going to think about pushing for a wild card spot.
- JRoenick97

JR, not disagreeing with you.
Fact of the matter is, it simply takes effort (right?) and some level of skill (which presumably they all have, being NHL-level).

I see the reason for this not being so much skill/personnel-related as not giving the effort. Leaders yack with no accountability.