If you think their comeback was associated with Weise playing 9 minutes a night I don't know what to say. You've got your mind set on a certain thing being the reason for the failure. It seems as if you don't want to focus on reality, but instead on finding a scapegoat in a man you don't want as the coach.

Quenneville isn't perfect, but not giving Dale Weise "opportunities" certainly was not a mistake on his part. The guy just didn't pass the eye test. He got sour about his playing time and had his own pity party about it. You could hear it in his comments upon leaving the team.
- Hawks_49

We can agree that Q is all about winning. We can agree that it is usually mandatory with Q how a player has to be able to play or do certain things in his role. Regular season Q in past years gave a player occasionally an extended trial: see B Pirri. In the playoff year when Weisse came over, apparently he couldn't cut it.

The only real question is if you believe he couldn't cut it. Because do you think Q would jeopardize possibly loosing in the playoffs to stick it to Stan by not playing his [Bowman's] guys. I do not think the divide goes that deep between them. Q gives in, uses whom he had to if he has no other choice: he reluctanyly played Runblad despite his runs bad(ly).

When Bowman made those trades It was reported that Q stormed out. Low and behold look who made the team on defense. I think Q had to settle down and accept why Stan made the trades. So yes there is the tolerating of each other. But I do not think either Stan or Joel burn bridges over things. Beside the PP woes has a lot to do with passing the blame to numerous parties, for different reasons.

The Pp is a fiasco because all involved buck the better, smarter approach and no one is held accountable until after a season ends. Then the assistant coach is the scapegoat.

The Pp issue is on the players - at minimum certain players, on the assistant coach as well as Q and Stan.

I think that if any of us saw ourselves losing minutes to Mashinter in a beer league, no less the NHL, we'd be sour too.
- Dieselhead

Small sample size, but Mashinter was a 72% Corsi and 25.8 Corsi relative in his two playoff games in 2015-16. He had 9 hits and was responsible in his own zone.

Weise was a 45% Corsi and -6 relative. 9 hits and a goal in four games.

We can agree that Q is all about winning. We can agree that it is usually mandatory with Q how a player has to be able to play or do certain things in his role. Regular season Q in past years gave a player occasdionally an extended trial: see B Pirri. In the playoff year when Weisse came over, apparently he couldn't cut it.

The only real question is if you believe he couldn't cut it. Because do you think Q would jeopardize possibly loosing in the playoffs to stick it to Stan by not playing his
- jhawk59[Bowman's] guys. I do not think the divide goes that deep between them. Q gives in, uses whom he had to if he has no other choice: he reluctanyly played Rinblad despite his runs bad(ly).

When Bowman made those trades It was reported that W stormed out. Low and behold look who made the team on defense. I think Q had to settle down and accept why Stan made the trades. So yes there is the tolerating of each other. But I do not think either Stan or Joel burn bridges over things. Not even assistant coaches. Beside the PP woes has a lot to do with passing the blame to numerous parties, for different reasons. The Pp is a fiasco because all involved buck the better, smarter approach and no one is held accountable until after a season ends. Then the assistant coach is the scapegoat.

The Pp issue is on the players - at minimum certain players, on the assistant coach as well as Q and Stan.

+1. I agree.

Small sample size, but Mashinter was a 72% Corsi and 25.8 Corsi relative in his two playoff games in 2015-16. He had 9 hits and was responsible in his own zone.

Weise was a 45% Corsi and -6 relative. 9 hits and a goal in four games.
- Hawks_49

Does Q look at Corsi?
Late add; i dk (Don't know).

But in the best interest of everyone I feel after This season Q should resign. It's not all on him, this dismal record and likely playoff miss

I just know that would be ok with McDonough. He can then talk up how the team is changing for the better. He can THANK Joel for all he accomplished.

No McDonough has more class than to slip a notice of termination under the door. Stan better have more sensible transactions sndcthe team looks to be improving else he will hang by his own noose AFTER next season irregardless of sage father Scotty.

He was, is, and will always be a 4th liner. Tomas Fleischmann was a freaking Professional Try-Out player and 36 years old that season. It's an inexcusable trade to make, especially when David freaking Rundblad was in the defensive rotation and a Dman was the most acute need on the roster. Wasted opportunity with the Core still in their prime due to Bowman's incompetence.
- EnzoD

U win Cups with a good 4th line ,to bad that series one of are better ones was in the press box because Q Can't take advice from the best coach ever .U know Scotty was in on Stan getting Wiese for the playoffs .

Small sample size, but Mashinter was a 72% Corsi and 25.8 Corsi relative in his two playoff games in 2015-16. He had 9 hits and was responsible in his own zone.

Weise was a 45% Corsi and -6 relative. 9 hits and a goal in four games.
- Hawks_49

These numbers are cute ,guess Rumblad should still be here as he was a leader in +/-..

I have to disagree ,he was never given a chance because Q got his nose out of joint .Coach Q ego has been killing this team for a couple years now . And when Wiese started playing regularly against ST.L the team started their comeback ,it was just to late .
- oldduffman

You think Weise was the game change in that series? Come on. The guy barely saw the ice. The Hawks have a penchant for coming back late in playoff series. Detroit, Vancouver, Nashville, etc. Weise had nothing to do with it. He was bad. Flash was bad. Vermette took a while to get used to the system. Guys can't jsut come in and immediately contribute. Look at Duchene in Ottawa. Sucked for 2 weeks, then 9 points in 6 games. Players have to learn the system. It's not "Q's ego" or some other made up fan nonsense. It's a system. Some guys fit, others don't.

These numbers are cute ,guess Rumblad should still be here as he was a leader in +/-..
- oldduffman

+/- and possession stats aren't in the same realm?

Does Q look at Corsi?
Late add; i dk (Don't know).

But in the best interest of everyone I feel after This season Q should resign. It's not all on him, this dismal record and likely playoff miss

I just know that would be ok with McDonough. He can then talk up how the team is changing for the better. He can THANK Joel for all he accomplished.

No McDonough has more class than to slip a notice of termination under the door. Stan better have more sensible transactions sndcthe team looks to be improving else he will hang by his own noose AFTER next season irregardless of sage father Scotty.
- jhawk59

If the Hawks miss the playoffs I think a head coaching change will be in order. I'm not sure it happens if they get in, however. The Hawks tend to play their best hockey in February and March so I just don't know what to expect.

If the Hawks miss the playoffs I think a head coaching change will be in order. I'm not sure it happens if they get in, however. The Hawks tend to play their best hockey in February and March so I just don't know what to expect.
- Hawks_49

They better this year. Anything else and they don't make it.

1). Playoffs we need players who willingly check and play hard, at least two like that to deploy on
the top two or top three lines. Hopefully Saad would play his game if he could work better with correct linemattes. Anyway, it is still going to be a battle for our defensemen - as currently given - but at least a better equipped forwards might make a game out of it. That goes as far as drive to playoffs and if they almost miraculously get in.

2). The difference between last year and this season is that we conceivably would get soundly beat, but not thoroughly embarrassed....as the roster stands now. Toews and Seabrook contributions make the team performance either somewhat more encouraging, or worse....friends what version shows up those two players

3). Crawford has a concussion. He might be recovering from it now ....post concussion I do not know. I also do not know if he had vertigo again. But it is a concussion. That is the word but no one is willing to go on record from the Blackhawks last I heard
- jhawk59

Yes, hence size and grit.

Again the "youth movement" can be used for that, 19-7 won't take all the heat.

Most likely scenario....I'm of the guess that Malkin's hit put him over the top. DOPS and the league should be sued, I don't see player protection first at all. But
that's a story for another day.

U win Cups with a good 4th line ,to bad that series one of are better ones was in the press box because Q Can't take advice from the best coach ever .U know Scotty was in on Stan getting Wiese for the playoffs .
- oldduffman

Which is all the more puzzling. Because I thought the same....need a dman priority. But I cooled my jets because Weisse had a sensational playoffs on his resume. A fair talent, tough....ok....but really wanted a dman. So Scotty influenced a trade - i can believe that could be true. But neither player helped.

Just a passing thought.....veterans used to be counted on to help push a team into playoffs, or win once in playoffs. Nowadays I think it is true still but more relevant is a specialist almost. A third pair who can carry the mail, not a slower older cagey veteran forward so much. A cagey older dman also a "no?"

Depends if dman can play in your system. Can he do enough well enough and not a liability in skating or playing fast enough at speed?

Well I Cole was a valuable 5th depth dman on a Stanley Cup but now he sits because apparently greater emphasis on the new type dman and he is not good enough. But would just demoted P Martin have enough left in his tank to play how a team requests?

The one thing that is driving me crazy about the Q/Players rift is that most here will say Q is a HOF coach, yet on the other hand why is it a HOF coach could not get a player like Weise to fit into his system? Simple question, doesn't a HOF coach make any player better? I like Q, but for petes sake he had a stacked team that any coach could have had success with. Q has failed many times, and maybe he is not a HOF coach because he is being outcoached right now.

With some of the hits Crawford absorbed this year, other teams would have had 5 guys piling on the perpetrator. Our guys just shrug these events off. Our goalies are fair game because there are no consequences.
I know that this is not 1990, but there has to be some policing to allow our players to perform to their potential and to maintain their physical health.
- 67hawks

Yes, I totally agree, and Wingels/Bouma aren't the guys doing it, if anyone it was
Hayden who was standing up for the lads.

Which is all the more puzzling. Because I thought the same....need a dman priority. But I cooled my jets because Weisse had a sensational playoffs on his resume. A fair talent, tough....ok....but really wanted a dman. So Scotty influenced a trade - i can believe that could be true. But neither player helped.

Just a passing thought.....veterans used to be counted on to help push a team into playoffs, or win once in playoffs. Nowadays I think it is true still but more relevant is a specialist almost. A third pair who can carry the mail, not a slower older cagey veteran forward so much. A cagey older dman also a "no?"

Dep ends if dman can play in your system. Can he do enough well enough and not a liability in skating or playing fast enough at speed?

Well I Cole was a valuable 5th depth dman on a Stanley Cup but now he sits because apparently greater emphasis on the new type dman and he is not good enough. But would just demoted P Martin have enough left in his tank to play how a team requests?
- jhawk59

Which is all the more puzzling. Because I thought the same....need a dman priority. But I cooled my jets because Weisse had a sensational playoffs on his resume. A fair talent, tough....ok....but really wanted a dman. So Scotty influenced a trade - i can believe that could be true. But neither player helped.

Just a passing thought.....veterans used to be counted on to help push a team into playoffs, or win once in playoffs. Nowadays I think it is true still but more relevant is a specialist almost. A third pair who can carry the mail, not a slower older cagey veteran forward so much. A cagey older dman also a "no?"

Dep ends if dman can play in your system. Can he do enough well enough and not a liability in skating or playing fast enough at speed?

Well I Cole was a valuable 5th depth dman on a Stanley Cup but now he sits because apparently greater emphasis on the new type dman and he is not good enough. But would just demoted P Martin have enough left in his tank to play how a team requests?
- jhawk59

Martin is down for conditioning. the concern with him is his ankle 100% after surgery at 36 years old.

The one thing that is driving me crazy about the Q/Players rift is that most here will say Q is a HOF coach, yet on the other hand why is it a HOF coach could not get a player like Weise to fit into his system? Simple question, doesn't a HOF coach make any player better? I like Q, but for petes sake he had a stacked team that any coach could have had success with. Q has failed many times, and maybe he is not a HOF coach because he is being outcoached right now.
- powerenforcer

It's Dale Weise. He's a 4th line grinder at best. What's he going to get from him? Q likes defensively responsible players. Weise just isn't there.

It's Dale Weise. He's a 4th line grinder at best. What's he going to get from him? Q likes defensively responsible players. Weise just isn't there.
- JRoenick97

Which even strenghtens my point even more. Q is not a great coach. Q is a great coach when he has specific players that are great, ie fits HIS mold. A coach should be able to mold any player.

Which even strenghtens my point even more. Q is not a great coach. Q is a great coach when he has specific players that are great, ie fits HIS mold. A coach should be able to mold any player.
- powerenforcer

You're trying to take all the responsibility off of the player and place it on Q. Weise was bad because he was bad. He's been bad for every team he has ever played for except for a nice run over about 12 months in Montreal. The player has to take responsibility for his own actions. You can lead a horse to water, but....

Which even strenghtens my point even more. Q is not a great coach. Q is a great coach when he has specific players that are great, ie fits HIS mold. A coach should be able to mold any player.
- powerenforcer

One reason why he leaves after this season

You're trying to take all the responsibility off of the player and place it on Q. Weise was bad because he was bad. He's been bad for every team he has ever played for except for a nice run over about 12 months in Montreal. The player has to take responsibility for his own actions. You can lead a horse to water, but....
- Hawks_49

As does the General Manager for franking up the trade deadline and not appropriately addressing team needs on defense...all while giving up a 1st round pick and ideal 3C in Danault AND a 2nd round pick.

As does the General Manager for franking up the trade deadline and not appropriately addressing team needs on defense...all while giving up a 1st round pick and ideal 3C in Danault AND a 2nd round pick.
- EnzoD

But do you think Scotty influenced Stan on this trade? If so then sage advice was not sage advice on one occassion

As does the General Manager for franking up the trade deadline and not appropriately addressing team needs on defense...all while giving up a 1st round pick and ideal 3C in Danault AND a 2nd round pick.
- EnzoD

Absolutely. Just a bad situation for everyone involved.

Which even strenghtens my point even more. Q is not a great coach. Q is a great coach when he has specific players that are great, ie fits HIS mold. A coach should be able to mold any player.
- powerenforcer

Weise has a part in it also. If he can't play the role given and doesn't adjust, he isn't gonna play. Players are 50% of it too.

U win Cups with a good 4th line ,to bad that series one of are better ones was in the press box because Q Can't take advice from the best coach ever .U know Scotty was in on Stan getting Wiese for the playoffs .
- oldduffman

I call BS on this.