Probably Washington's or Minnesota's. They both have over 30 points as a line. St. Louis's is solid too. (Also using Dailyfaceoff.com's line combos for today to compare numbers, as someone else stated, 4th lines change) I know at one point Kunitz-Paquette-Callahan was a line and I think they'd be around 20-25 points right now. For comparisons sake, I think Pens 4th lines when Rowney/McKegg were centers were like 14'ish points. With Sheahan the line has looked much better, they're production is around 20ish.
- j.boyd919

Wow what a 4th line. I figured Kunitz to be in bottom 6 there but 4th line with those other two is a powerful line if only getting 10ish mins a night.

Wow what a 4th line. I figured Kunitz to be in bottom 6 there but 4th line with those other two is a powerful line if only getting 10ish mins a night.
- MattStrat

Callahan's production has fallen off a cliff. 6 points in 34 games, he sucks ass now. Kunitz has 11 points, but I actually think he's in the top 6 now. I think Conacher is on the 4th line at the moment. I know Kuni has been bouncing around a lot.

4th lines get switched up so often. The Leafs have a pretty good one in Moore Martin and Brown. Points wise anyway.
- Thorny87

Very true. I think that most teams 1st two lines kinda cancel each other out but when the 3rd line is a big mismatch, it really ups the chances of a W. Not so much if the 4th line matchup is uneven. So in saying this, Im really liking what I'm seeing with the Pens 3rd line with Kessel there and Ive always wanted Kessel to have his own line. Guentzel should stay 3C IMO.

Callahan's production has fallen off a cliff. 6 points in 34 games, he sucks ass now. Kunitz has 11 points, but I actually think he's in the top 6 now. I think Conacher is on the 4th line at the moment. I know Kuni has been bouncing around a lot.
- j.boyd919

His hero chart for last year looks fantastic for a 4th liner...

His hero chart for last year looks fantastic for a 4th liner...
- MattStrat

He only played 18 games, had 4 points in 18 games. So I think that most of his REALLY positive data was coming from his 54 point and 28 point seasons before it.

His hero chart for last year looks fantastic for a 4th liner...
- MattStrat

His numbers from last year. Whoops. Gotta fix that.

EDIT: fixed.

His numbers from last year. Whoops. Gotta fix that.

EDIT: fixed.
- j.boyd919

Haha yeah, thats not so hot...

Haha yeah, thats not so hot...
- MattStrat

Yeah that was one of the quicker declines in production I've ever seen lol 50 points to 13 points (what he's on pace for this season) 3 seasons later.

Todd Haley gone. Good (frank)ing riddance.

All this ripping apart the Pens 4th line this season and not one person wants to tell me which 4th line in hockey they think is the best...alright, alright.
- MattStrat

Clutterbuck, Cizikas, Matt Martin

Clutterbuck, Cizikas, Matt Martin
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Thankfully does not exist anymore. I detested that line.

Clutterbuck, Cizikas, Matt Martin
- YouMeAndDupuis9

That was a doozy of one, yeah. No longer intact though, thankfully.

Todd Haley gone. Good (frank)ing riddance.
- Victoro311

I know right, who replaces him though? I honestly am not a fan of Tomlin either.

Todd Haley gone. Good (frank)ing riddance.
- Victoro311

I don't know... the Steelers have had a damn good offence with him. IMO the firing order should have been:

Butler
Tomlin
Haley

Feels like Tomlin is just coddling to Roethlisberger.

I don't know... the Steelers have had a damn good offence with him. IMO the firing order should have been:

Butler
Tomlin
Haley

Feels like Tomlin is just coddling to Roethlisberger.
- MacPatty

Well the defense was awesome until they lost one of the best LBs in football. That really (frank)ed them in the arse hard. They gave up 350+ yards in 5 out of 6 games without him. As good as their offense was, they couldn't really get off the field on 3rd downs in that Jags game, and some of those 4 and 1 calls were atrocious. I know in the grand scheme of things they were only 2 plays and they did put up 40 somethin points, but early in the game, better playcalling on those plays could have changed a lot.

Well the defense was awesome until they lost one of the best LBs in football. That really (frank)ed them in the arse hard. They gave up 350+ yards in 5 out of 6 games without him. As good as their offense was, they couldn't really get off the field on 3rd downs in that Jags game, and some of those 4 and 1 calls were atrocious. I know in the grand scheme of things they were only 2 plays and they did put up 40 somethin points, but early in the game, better playcalling on those plays could have changed a lot.
- j.boyd919

Yeah, Shazier really is a great player. I've always felt like Ben just doesnt like doing sneaks even though hes been effective at it. Also thought the onside kick was a way worse call than either of the 4th downs. Either way, hopefully they can do something good in the offseason.

Yeah, Shazier really is a great player. I've always felt like Ben just doesnt like doing sneaks even though hes been effective at it. Also thought the onside kick was a way worse call than either of the 4th downs. Either way, hopefully they can do something good in the offseason.
- MacPatty

he's 18 for 19 career on 4th down sneaks. He actually came out and said on the radio that it wasn't even in the playbook, there was no audible for it. He's mentioned to Tomlin that they should put it in the book but Tomlin would laugh and say "maybe in your younger days." Why does he have to be young to gain half a yard? It's so stupid. Also, when was the last time a QB got injured in a QB sneak?

I don't know... the Steelers have had a damn good offence with him. IMO the firing order should have been:

Butler
Tomlin
Haley

Feels like Tomlin is just coddling to Roethlisberger.
- MacPatty

Defense was good this year until we lost Shazier. Fact is you’re just not going to be good at stopping the run when you lose your star int guy and replace him with Sean Spence.

Our offense was good in spite of Haley. It’s impossible to not be good with the killer bs and now JuJu. Haley’s insistence that Ben not run the no huddle because he thinks his play calling is superb was always a fireable offense. Ben is a no huddle QB. Every single game where we’re down cus Haley’s getting out schemed, Haley begrudgingly gives Ben the green light to go no huddle, and we come back. That’s not coincidence. Ben is a better O Cord than Todd Haley.

I’m totally fine with dumping Tomlin. He gets out coached on a game to game basis.

Well the defense was awesome until they lost one of the best LBs in football. That really (frank)ed them in the arse hard. They gave up 350+ yards in 5 out of 6 games without him. As good as their offense was, they couldn't really get off the field on 3rd downs in that Jags game, and some of those 4 and 1 calls were atrocious. I know in the grand scheme of things they were only 2 plays and they did put up 40 somethin points, but early in the game, better playcalling on those plays could have changed a lot.
- j.boyd919

Those two plays were atrocious 4th and inches calls by Haley.

Yeah, Shazier really is a great player. I've always felt like Ben just doesnt like doing sneaks even though hes been effective at it. Also thought the onside kick was a way worse call than either of the 4th downs. Either way, hopefully they can do something good in the offseason.
- MacPatty

The onside kick I understood - the defense hadn't stopped the Jaguars all day and a first down would have basically won the game. Taking a chance there didn't bother me.

Not sneaking was stupid.

And not coming out no-huddle 85% of the time and acting like you've actually got the best assemblage of offensive players in the league is asinine.

I would imagine Munchak will be the new OC.

Defense was good this year until we lost Shazier. Fact is you’re just not going to be good at stopping the run when you lose your star int guy and replace him with Sean Spence.

Our offense was good in spite of Haley. It’s impossible to not be good with the killer bs and now JuJu. Haley’s insistence that Ben not run the no huddle because he thinks his play calling is superb was always a fireable offense. Ben is a no huddle QB. Every single game where we’re down cus Haley’s getting out schemed, Haley begrudgingly gives Ben the green light to go no huddle, and we come back. That’s not coincidence. Ben is a better O Cord than Todd Haley.

I’m totally fine with dumping Tomlin. He gets out coached on a game to game basis.
- Victoro311

Who's the big fish out there? McDaniels? I actually saw an article that some of the shareholders of the Steelers want Tomlin out.

The onside kick I understood - the defense hadn't stopped the Jaguars all day and a first down would have basically won the game. Taking a chance there didn't bother me.

Not sneaking was stupid.

And not coming out no-huddle 85% of the time and acting like you've actually got the best assemblage of offensive players in the league is asinine.

I would imagine Munchak will be the new OC.
- hardnosed

Kaboly suggested quarterback coach Randy Fichtner

Who's the big fish out there? McDaniels? I actually saw an article that some of the shareholders of the Steelers want Tomlin out.
- j.boyd919

Honestly I thought half of the fanbase wanted Tomlin out at this point. His clock management skills are awful. His in-game adjustments are non-existent. He's supposed to be a "player's coach", yet we have guys tweeting about the AFC championship game before the Jags game. I don't think he's a very good football coach, he's just been blessed with quality drafts and teams riddled with talent.

Honestly I thought half of the fanbase wanted Tomlin out at this point. His clock management skills are awful. His in-game adjustments are non-existent. He's supposed to be a "player's coach", yet we have guys tweeting about the AFC championship game before the Jags game. I don't think he's a very good football coach, he's just been blessed with quality drafts and teams riddled with talent.
- MikeyKay

He’s not even that good at drafting. He’s had a ton of misses.

And yeah I don’t buy the player coach thing. I guy who explicitly says “I don’t deal with the locker room stuff, I just let the players sort it out themselves,” isn’t a players coach. He’s just a bad leader of men that lets the players do whatever the (frank) they want. I stand by that if it wasn’t for Ben that locker room would have fallen apart ages ago with all the egos and personalities in there.

He’s not even that good at drafting. He’s had a ton of misses.

And yeah I don’t buy the player coach thing. I guy who explicitly says “I don’t deal with the locker room stuff, I just let the players sort it out themselves,” isn’t a players coach. He’s just a bad leader of men that lets the players do whatever the (frank) they want. I stand by that if it wasn’t for Ben that locker room would have fallen apart ages ago with all the egos and personalities in there.
- Victoro311

He's a "Player's Coach" because players like him because he treats players like his buddies and not like a disciplinarian. It doesn't have anything to do with the players responding to his coaching.