Two guys already in Martin when thornburn grabbed him. How that was even was a joke.

Matthews gets tackled from behind in the twice no call. Refs may as well not be there
- burn

That is Morton he is a farce of a ref and was just as bad if not worse in the AHL. Most Hamilton Bulldogs fans hated his utter guts he was that incompetent. Him and Poochy Pochmara were always public enemy number one.

Why was Lee even out there as the second ref though? All he did was stand about with his whistle up his arse playing the invisble man to Morton. Why even have two refs if he too doesn't have the balls to make the call.

Granted Marner was bad on the last play but he was elbowed in the head, AND our other guy was utterly upended and dumped with the stick off the faceoff. No calls there either.

Any of the Matthews mugging and those two get called, outcome is definitely different.

For (frank) sakes

Bennet has .39 PPG in his first 200 games

Mackinnon had .70 PPG in his first 218

Stop trying to compare the two
- Santo_44

I'm not comparing the two. He said nobody was saying they thought he was a bust and somebody literally said it.

Two guys already in Martin when thornburn grabbed him. How that was even was a joke.

Matthews gets tackled from behind in the twice no call. Refs may as well not be there
- burn

That is Morton he is a farce of a ref and was just as bad if not worse in the AHL. Most Hamilton Bulldogs fans hated his utter guts he was that incompetent. Him and Poochy Pochmara were always public enemy number one.

Why was Lee even out there as the second ref though? All he did was stand about with his whistle up his arse playing the invisble man to Morton. Why even have two refs if he too doesn't have the balls to make the call.

Granted Marner was bad on the last play but he was elbowed in the head, AND our other guy was utterly upended and dumped with the stick off the faceoff. No calls there either.

Any of the Matthews mugging and those two get called, outcome is definitely different.
- Roadrunner75

Polak does that and he'd get a penalty, plus he'd get 10 millions tweets from fans hoping he dies.

So a goon jumped a Leaf player for no good reason, clutched his sweater for a minute, nullified a goal by the Leafs, and the rule that should have given him two minutes is stupid?
- Atomic Wedgie

In that circumstance, a goon jumped a goon but it makes sense to give Thorburn an instigator for retaliation for a clean hit. But, in general, the instigator is stupid because there are scenarios where a guy deserves a beating (Sean Avery for example) and can just run away from it. The instigator should apply if a guy like Reaves grabs Matthews and starts punching him for no reason.

It's about the spirit of the rule. It's like calling offside on a guy who has his foot off the ice above the blueline? By the letter of the law, it's offside but it's kind of stupid.

Yeah, lets trade Brown for that guy UG loves.
- bobbyisno1

Never said trade Brown.

Trade Hyman, yes, but not Brown.

Watching Boston, knowing what's ahead with TB: I'm leaning towards us selling all these UFAs, bringing up some more kids to fill out the roster, and seeing how it goes.

I just don't think we have to do anything right now, this season. Some of the media are going on like once the kids are signed, we'll be (frank)ed with the cap and won't be able to round out our roster, so we have to make a run now while we have cap space.

What did that get us? Marleau?

We can probably get some kind of a combination of 1st/2nd/good prospects for JVR at the deadline; Bozak, Komarov, Polak, whatever we can get.

Load up on picks and move up a few slots or package it up for an actually top 4 D instead of some overpriced has-been/never-been options like Green or Gudbranson.
- gravyface

You got it bang on.

You got it bang on.
- Unholy_Goalie

Hyman

Trade him for what

Someone put a turd in the bottom of his corona there it looks like
- Roadrunner75

ok you got me, it was I.....

Hyman

Trade him for what
- annoyed

A real 1st line LW?

Literally give him away just to clear the cap space so you can give it to JVR.

I agree but also would say out of the big three he IS the question mark. Talent and skilled sure, but also small and not sure he has bought in as much as Nylander who seems ahead of him right now. Hoping he pans out but don't know. I mean Daigle had talent and skill too but was a nothing in the end too so... I think you give him time and chance to show it but have to be prepared to call it as well and move him when you think it isn't going to pan out.
- Roadrunner75

I think comparing him to Daigle is a tad unfair. Marner can play in the NHL and isn't going to up and quit to be an actor. He's certainly not a bust.

I think it's a question of how good he'll be, but he's already established that he is a top 6 player.

The guy got 60 points last year. He broke the Leafs record for most assists by a rookie.

Even if he never gets any better he's still a serviceable player. But he's certainly not perfect as is.
He will get better though. He's only 20 and playing in his sophomore season. He'll improve.


P.S. I'd also point out that Nylander, who you suggest has bought into Babcock's system more than Marner, was stapled to the bench with Brown playing on his line in the third when Babcock was trying to protect their lead. Both are good young players, but both need to get better.

I think comparing him to Daigle is a tad unfair. Marner can play in the NHL and isn't going to up and quit to be an actor. He's certainly not a bust.

I think it's a question of how good he'll be, but he's already established that he is a top 6 player.

The guy got 60 points last year. He broke the Leafs record for most assists by a rookie.
Even if he never gets any better he's still a serviceable player. But he's certainly not perfect as is.
He will get better though.
- Thecakeisalie

Comparing Marner to Daigle is idiotic. Marner just needs to get stronger. It's no different than when Kadri first started except Marner has more talent than Kadri does. A lot of people, including Babcock, would blame him for that goal in OT. To me, it looked like he got elbowed in the face but he's 20 years old. Most 20 year olds do not play in the NHL and certainly don't put up points like he did last year. People forget that there's a period of time between drafting top prospects and winning Cups. These guys have to learn by making mistakes.

Comparing Marner to Daigle is idiotic. Marner just needs to get stronger. It's no different than when Kadri first started except Marner has more talent than Kadri does. A lot of people, including Babcock, would blame him for that goal in OT. To me, it looked like he got elbowed in the face but he's 20 years old. Most 20 year olds do not play in the NHL and certainly don't put up points like he did last year. People forget that there's a period of time between drafting top prospects and winning Cups. These guys have to learn by making mistakes.
- Unholy_Goalie

Exactly! I actually pointed out a few pages ago how much Kadri needed to improve when he was first drafted compared to now. When he was drafted he was a turnover machine. He's now Babcock's trusted shut down center.

I also think it could be a lack of experience at 3 on 3 hockey. That skate behind the net might not have been quite so costly if they'd been playing 5 on 5. He just needs to learn when to take his chances and when to play it safe.

Couldn't agree more UG.

Exactly! I actually pointed out how much Kadri needed to improve when he was first drafted compared to now. When he was drafted he was a turnover machine. He's now Babcock's trusted shut down center.

I also think it could be a lack of experience at 3 on 3 hockey. That skate behind the net might not have been quite so costly if they'd been playing 5 on 5. He just needs to learn when to take his chances and when to play it safe.

Couldn't agree more UG.
- Thecakeisalie

Marner, at 19, scored 61 points. Kadri, at 26, scored 61 points. Just wait until Marner is 26 and see what the difference is. People said all the same things about Kadri. He's soft, he's weak, he gives the puck away, he can't play center, he plays junior hockey, trade him, and so on and so on. Look at him now (hasn't been scoring for months but I mean look at his game overall). It took Kadri 5 years to become a full time NHLer and Marner is already doing it at 20 years old.

3 on 3 is bullpoop and so is the shootout. It's ridiculous. They should play 20 minutes, 5 on 5 OT and if it's a tie, it's a tie. This skills competition poop almost defeats the purpose of playing for 60 minutes.

Marner, at 19, scored 61 points. Kadri, at 26, scored 61 points. Just wait until Marner is 26 and see what the difference is. People said all the same things about Kadri. He's soft, he's weak, he gives the puck away, he can't play center, he plays junior hockey, trade him, and so on and so on. Look at him now (hasn't been scoring for months but I mean look at his game overall). It took Kadri 5 years to become a full time NHLer and Marner is already doing it at 20 years old.

3 on 3 is bullpoop and so is the shootout. It's ridiculous. They should play 20 minutes, 5 on 5 OT and if it's a tie, it's a tie. This skills competition poop almost defeats the purpose of playing for 60 minutes.
- Unholy_Goalie

Yep. Marner is more gifted offensively and can learn the defense.

I agree about the OT. I hate the shootout. I'd love continuous OT except I understand that could be too exhausting for players if they're having to do it often all season long. 20 min and then a tie if they still can't end it would be fine for the regular season. Then continous OT in the playoffs.

Damn Bettman and his changes. Ooooh it's more exciting! I remember recently reading some article where like 80% of the people they polled said they liked the shootout. I couldn't help wondering where they did their little fake survey. Probably Florida or California or something and asked a bunch of people that have watched 5 hockey games in their whole lives.

Yep. Marner is more gifted offensively and can learn the defense.

I agree about the OT. I hate the shootout. I'd love continuous OT except I understand that could be too exhausting for players if they're having to do it often all season long. 20 min and then a tie if they still can't end it would be fine for the regular season. Then continous OT in the playoffs.

Damn Bettman and his changes. Ooooh it's more exciting! I remember recently reading some article where like 80% of the people they polled said they liked the shootout. I couldn't help wondering where they did their little fake survey. Probably Florida or California or something and asked a bunch of people that have watched 5 hockey games in their whole lives.
- Thecakeisalie

Marner is already pretty good at playing two-way hockey. If he wasn't, he wouldn't be in the NHL under Babcock. He's just not perfect. But that takes time and that's okay. Marner leads the Leafs in takeaways and despite what people think, has less giveaways than Matthews. And he has to play with JVR and Bozak.

I've heard the argument that the NHLPA and the players wouldn't want to play a full 20 min OT but the fact is, it would benefit both sides. You increase the roster size (more jobs) which allows guys to get more days off if required. Also, the possibility of playing longer OT means coaches are going to stop carrying goons (especially for road games) who play 4 minutes a night and start picking more skilled players.

3 on 3 and the shootout is for "casual" fans. They're selling out part of the sport. It's like putting advertisements on the jersey. Everything is for sale now.

Marner is already pretty good at playing two-way hockey. If he wasn't, he wouldn't be in the NHL under Babcock. He's just not perfect. But that takes time and that's okay. Marner leads the Leafs in takeaways and despite what people think, has less giveaways than Matthews.

I've heard the argument that the NHLPA and the players wouldn't want to play continuous OT but the fact is, it would benefit both sides. You increase the roster size (more jobs) which allows guys to get more days off if required. Also, the possibility of playing longer OT means coaches are going to stop carrying goons (especially for road games) who play 4 minutes a night and start picking more skilled players.

3 on 3 and the shootout is for "casual" fans. They're selling out part of the sport. It's like putting advertisements on the jersey. Everything is for sale now.
- Unholy_Goalie

you are one crusty mf'er

you are one crusty mf'er
- Arctic_AARDVARK

- Unholy_Goalie

It's ironic, because you are complaining about hockey selling out, and Krusty is a total sellout as part of his character.

Like camp Krusty, or all the useless Krusty brand items that are absolute poop. I love the Simpsons.

It's ironic, because you are complaining about hockey selling out, and Krusty is a total sellout as part of his character.

Like camp Krusty, or all the useless Krusty brand items that are absolute poop. I love the Simpsons.
- Thecakeisalie

That's right.

Even the names of the arenas. Once upon a time, it was Maple Leaf Gardens. Now it's the Air Canada Center. Next, it's the Scotiabank Arena. I understand why they do it, it's obvious that it's because the money is huge but as a fan, it's a little disappointing that every little thing they can put a price tag on is sold to the highest bidder. Or that Maple Leaf Gardens got turned into a (frank)ing Loblaws instead of moving the Hockey Hall of Fame into the building. poop like that.

NHL wants to bury them all; hobos, sea captains, Joey Bishop, the Special Olympics...

A real 1st line LW?

Literally give him away just to clear the cap space so you can give it to JVR.
- Unholy_Goalie

Lol go to bed

That's right.

Even the names of the arenas. Once upon a time, it was Maple Leaf Gardens. Now it's the Air Canada Center. Next, it's the Scotiabank Arena. I understand why they do it, it's obvious that it's because the money is huge but as a fan, it's a little disappointing that every little thing they can put a price tag on is sold to the highest bidder. Or that Maple Leaf Gardens got turned into a (frank)ing Loblaws instead of moving the Hockey Hall of Fame into the building. poop like that.

NHL wants to bury them all; hobos, sea captains, Joey Bishop, the Special Olympics...
- Unholy_Goalie

The world of entertainment is a cold, hard, business.
There is always a new up and coming star ready to steal your spot.

Pronmans mid season ranking for prospects

Liljegren #13
Kapanen #15
Bracco #50
- Santo_44

Pronman is an imbecile but I still want to know his entire list. Plus I'm poor as poop. Gimme a run down on his list. haha

Two guys already in Martin when thornburn grabbed him. How that was even was a joke.

Matthews gets tackled from behind in the twice no call. Refs may as well not be there
- burn

The officiating has been a complete joke all season.

Not just for the Leafs (although, they've been especially bad against them), but league wide.

A real 1st line LW?

Literally give him away just to clear the cap space so you can give it to JVR.
- Unholy_Goalie

Already got one. His name is Patrick Marleau.