The statements about “does this get on the scoreboard” irks me.

Yes, they do. They lead you to the scoreboard of you consistently do them well.

Ignoring the process is dumb
- sbroads24

The process in football is much more measurable (yards) than it is in hockey

Trying to analyze every single piece of a game that flows as much as hockey does is wasting a lot of man hours.

Except they're not. The forward that gains the opposing blueline (aka jack eichel is a puck carrying phenom) is much more likely to create sustained possession, playmaking and goals than the guy who's chipping and chasing.

Same with the defender who can prevent the opposition from gaining the blue line. prevents the other team from spending time in the o-zone and generating chances.
- Sabresfan-365

So the object is to have possession in the offensive zone in order to score goals, yes? So it stands to reason that winning an O-zone faceoff is very important since that's a way to gain possession on the way to scoring a goal, yet faceoffs are a red-headed step-child in the stats community.

The process in football is much more measurable (yards) than it is in hockey

Trying to analyze every single piece of a game that flows as much as hockey does is wasting a lot of man hours.
- Stripes77

It’s not much different

You get yards, you’re going to score points

You get shots, you’re going to score goals.

It’s all relevant.

So the object is to have possession in the offensive zone in order to score goals, yes? So it stands to reason that winning an O-zone faceoff is very important since that's a way to gain possession on the way to scoring a goal, yet faceoffs are a red-headed step-child in the stats community.
- Wetbandit1

Which is mind blowing
Bc it’s obviouly better to win the faceoff & have possession, than it is to lose the faceoff & then try to get the puck

Let’s try it this way: name any move made by Botterill that improved the Buffalo Sabres.
- Der Kaiser

Signed Eichel

Drafted Mittlestat






Held a press conference in the national spotlight admitting that trading Pysyk was this organizations biggest mistake.

It’s not much different

You get yards, you’re going to score points

You get shots, you’re going to score goals.

It’s all relevant.
- sbroads24

But u can take 100 shots from the point & not score
The quality of shots is more important than the quantity

Just looking at total shots is extremely misleading

Which is mind blowing
Bc it’s obviouly better to win the faceoff & have possession, than it is to lose the faceoff & then try to get the puck
- jdfitz77

I’m not sure anyone says it isn’t important

What they say is that signing players based on FO ability is really dumb because there isn’t a ton of variance.

The best team is the Jets at 52.8%. That’s slightly above 50%

The worst is 45.6%

The difference between the best and worst is like 2/3 FO wins per game

It’s not much different

You get yards, you’re going to score points

You get shots, you’re going to score goals.

It’s all relevant.
- sbroads24

But we know McCoy is better because at the end of the year he'll have more TDs than Tolbert unless it's a weird season where there were a bunch of 1 yard TDs like with Jerome Bettis at the end of his career when he had a ton of TDs but very few yards(9 TDs on 368 yards), but absolutely at the end of their careers McCoy will have more.

We know that because we watch the game.

My only issue is the one game sample size you used.

But u can take 100 shots from the point & not score
The quality of shots is more important than the quantity

Just looking at total shots is extremely misleading
- jdfitz77

You can get a ton of yards and kick field goals and not score TD’s

There are always variables

Which is mind blowing
Bc it’s obviouly better to win the faceoff & have possession, than it is to lose the faceoff & then try to get the puck
- jdfitz77

I was half trolling.

Kadri, Gardiner, Nylander. People love Reilly but he's basically just risto producing more offensively

Kuznetsov for the caps seems like an obvious #3 choice
- Sabresfan-365

Kadri and Kuznetsov take over games routinely?

Kessel, Malkin, Sid and Letang. You could throw Murray in there as well.
- sbroads24

I don't consider Kessel as a player that takes over games consistently, at least by himself.

Letang does...when he is healthy, which has been a rare occurrence for a few years now?

But we know McCoy is better because at the end of the year he'll have more TDs than Tolbert unless it's a weird season where there were a bunch of 1 yard TDs like with Jerome Bettis at the end of his career when he had a ton of TDs but very few yards(9 TDs on 368 yards), but absolutely at the end of their careers McCoy will have more.

We know that because we watch the game.

My only issue is the one game sample size you used.
- Wetbandit1

You’re making my point for me.

We know McCoy is better because over a larger sample he’s way better at the process, and eventually the results will show that

Except they're not. The forward that gains the opposing blueline (aka jack eichel is a puck carrying phenom) is much more likely to create sustained possession, playmaking and goals than the guy who's chipping and chasing.

Same with the defender who can prevent the opposition from gaining the blue line. prevents the other team from spending time in the o-zone and generating chances.
- Sabresfan-365

Do they have a stat for percentage of scoring success per zone entry and percentage of no goal success at stopping zone entry for defensemen?

That’s why a lot of these stats are bogus to a degree

How much value do you put in one stat compared to another?
That’s also an issue

Not that they aren’t helpful...
but I’ll always say the eye test is best
- jdfitz77

For me, this part is entirely up to you not specifically you but yeah lol.

My guess is league wide different management teams and analytics departments value these stats differently

Held a press conference in the national spotlight admitting that trading Pysyk was this organizations biggest mistake.
- washedup20

What...?

For me, this part is entirely up to you not specifically you but yeah lol.

My guess is league wide different management teams and analytics departments value these stats differently
- Sabresfan-365

Shouldn't the ultimate goal of these advanced stats be to help management place players they have in the best position to play well and help the team win?

Unrelated hockey note: did you get your car?

Do they have a stat for percentage of scoring success per zone entry and percentage of no goal success at stopping zone entry for defensemen?
- kingcong39

The first one would be interesting... im not sure i follow what you mean by the second.


I imagine the no goal success of stopping zone entry is pretty much 99% unless your goaltender poops himself

Kadri and Kuznetsov take over games routinely?
- kingcong39

I never said routinely.

It doesn’t even have to mean “take over” games as much as just being the best player that night.

Some nights guys like Kuznetsov or Malkin or Ehlers look like they are a level above everyone else.

We don’t have that guy outside of Eichel.

Shouldn't the ultimate goal of these advanced stats be to help management place players they have in the best position to play well and help the team win?

Unrelated hockey note: did you get your car?
- kingcong39

Right, but not all GMs value certain stats the same way. They've all got different philosophies on how to go about it. If im not mistaken GMTM was actually a pro analytics guy


Im aiming to get it in March, had some unforseen expenses come up in the last few months with family/health issues and what not


Edit: just caught that you called it a hockey note lol

Lets Go Amerks!

What...?
- kingcong39

Look it up, it's on periscope

I’m not sure anyone says it isn’t important

What they say is that signing players based on FO ability is really dumb because there isn’t a ton of variance.

The best team is the Jets at 52.8%. That’s slightly above 50%

The worst is 45.6%

The difference between the best and worst is like 2/3 FO wins per game
- sbroads24

Well I wouldn’t sign a guy solely on FO%
But even if the difference is just a few per game...
tell me u wouldn’t rather have ROR taking an important faceoff instead of Jack

Well I wouldn’t sign a guy solely on FO%
But even if the difference is just a few per game...
tell me u wouldn’t rather have ROR taking an important faceoff instead of Jack
- jdfitz77

Of course, but I don’t think any stats person would disagree either

You can get a ton of yards and kick field goals and not score TD’s

There are always variables
- sbroads24

I don’t really like the football vs hockey comparison in this case