but but but but but but but

http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...em-shopping-evander-kane/

TREASURE TROVE?
- TheGame316

Kane has his issues, but he's been a saint this year (as far as we know) and is scoring on a team that doesn't score. The game has passed him by? Come on...

Kane has his issues, but he's been a saint this year (as far as we know) and is scoring on a team that doesn't score. The game has passed him by? Come on...
- Freyster98

Fighting with teammates during practice = Cancer

Fighting with teammates during practice = Cancer
- TheGame316

So Falk is also a cancer? And all the Bills players who fight during training camp?

So Falk is also a cancer? And all the Bills players who fight during training camp?
- Freyster98

yes

Fighting with teammates during practice = Cancer
- TheGame316

Someone didn't listen to the interviews afterwards.

Actually you probably did...just trying to suppress those responses I assume.

Do all the empty net goals Gretzky scored in his career diminish his greatness? I am not comparing Eichel to Gretzky, I am saying that players get put into those situations because the coach trust them to get the job done and the job is to finish off the game be it by an empty net goal or just killing off the time. Eichel's defensive game has improved dramatically this year, he is way more dedicated to his 200 foot game, he is playing more physical on occasion, It is clearly obvious that no matter what he does in his career he will never be considered to be any good by Toronto fans who post to Garth's ramblings. I am quite sure that when Matthews gains a little more of Babcock's trust he too will start to collect those dreaded empty net goals that apparently diminish what a player accomplishes over the course of a season.
a goal is a goal.

Someone didn't listen to the interviews afterwards.

Actually you probably did...just trying to suppress those responses I assume.
- RhinoFan

I think his douchebaggery and teammates dislike has been a consistent message.

Fighting with teammates during practice = Cancer
- TheGame316

Not really. If the coach doesn't call out the problems with the way the team plays . Why not the players. Sucks not having a real captain to do it .Good wake up call and the team played better after that.

Do all the empty net goals Gretzky scored in his career diminish his greatness? I am not comparing Eichel to Gretzky, I am saying that players get put into those situations because the coach trust them to get the job done and the job is to finish off the game be it by an empty net goal or just killing off the time. Eichel's defensive game has improved dramatically this year, he is way more dedicated to his 200 foot game, he is playing more physical on occasion, It is clearly obvious that no matter what he does in his career he will never be considered to be any good by Toronto fans who post to Garth's ramblings. I am quite sure that when Matthews gains a little more of Babcock's trust he too will start to collect those dreaded empty net goals that apparently diminish what a player accomplishes over the course of a season.
a goal is a goal.
- macman9

Now Eichel is being compared to Gretzky. WOW. Gretzky scored 92. Imagine scoring 25 empty netters (the approx equivalent)
Eichel has scored a max of 24 goals a season. Greatness?

why? do we criticize how many goals that players have when they ping pong of skates and into the net? Good Players are on the ice in those situations for a reason.
- hehateme

I have to agree with this. I wish Matthews was on the ice in the last minute and scoring EN goals...would take some stress off the game for me!

Eichel is a great talent, but I find there are too many games where I never even notice him out there. Sure, there are games when he dominates, but if you are supposed to be a franchise, "generational" talent, then you need to bring it every night, not every second night.

Now Eichel is being compared to Gretzky. WOW. Gretzky scored 92. Imagine scoring 25 empty netters (the approx equivalent)
Eichel has scored a max of 24 goals a season. Greatness?
- BernardShakey

Read the second line of the quote, I clearly said I wasn't comparing Eichel to Gretzky, it's right there, you used the quote in your response. so either learn how to read or don't hate on someone's comments using false statements.

I have to agree with this. I wish Matthews was on the ice in the last minute and scoring EN goals...would take some stress off the game for me!
- bullethead7

I agree. I'd like Matthews on for empty net goals, too. He's the Leafs best player and has the highest chance of putting the puck into the empty net.

But that wasn't the point of what we were saying. The guy said that scoring a few empty net goals doesn't change things. And I pointed out that it absolutely does, when the player has scored 19 and 4 or 5 are empty netters. That's 20-25% of his goals into an empty net. It's the definition of "changing things" and padding/inflating stats.

I agree. I'd like Matthews on for empty net goals, too. He's the Leafs best player and has the highest chance of putting the puck into the empty net.

But that wasn't the point of what we were saying. The guy said that scoring a few empty net goals doesn't change things. And I pointed out that it absolutely does, when the player has scored 19 and 4 or 5 are empty netters. That's 20-25% of his goals into an empty net. It's the definition of "changing things" and padding/inflating stats.
- GreatGigInTheSky

I respectfully disagree. What is more important......an empty net goal to lock down a 4-2 win, or the last goal (for either team...take your pick).....in a 9-3 game? I'd take the empty net goal. Some empty net goals are easy, but some are results of great defensive hockey and individual effort. You can see more skill on one of those than one of the 50 goals a year that Polak deflects into the Leafs own net off his skate.

I get what you are saying, but I understand his point too.

I respectfully disagree. What is more important......an empty net goal to lock down a 4-2 win, or the last goal (for either team...take your pick).....in a 9-3 game? I'd take the empty net goal. Some empty net goals are easy, but some are results of great defensive hockey and individual effort. You can see more skill on one of those than one of the 50 goals a year that Polak deflects into the Leafs own net off his skate.

I get what you are saying, but I understand his point too.
- bullethead7

It's not an opinion based topic, though. It's a fact. His stats are inflated because he shoots the puck into an empty net.

Like I said on the last page, I'm not knocking him for doing his job and icing the game. He's doing what he is supposed to do. But it's still a fact 20-25% of his goals are into empty nets.

Sidenote- I thought he had 19 goals. NHL.com is saying 18. Did they take a goal away from him or something?

It's not an opinion based topic, though. It's a fact. His stats are inflated because he shoots the puck into an empty net.

Like I said on the last page, I'm not knocking him for doing his job and icing the game. He's doing what he is supposed to do. But it's still a fact 20-25% of his goals are into empty nets.

Sidenote- I thought he had 19 goals. NHL.com is saying 18. Did they take a goal away from him or something?
- GreatGigInTheSky

Sorry...still have to disagree. While it is fact that 25% of his goals are into an empty net, it is your view that this means his goal totals are inflated (and like I said....I get that view). If it was a fact then the NHL would treat them as such in their official records (e.g. All-Time leading goal scorer, minus Empty Net goals).

THIS!!!

God Buffalo fans can be so delusional. I've caught my fair share of Buffalo games this season (sad to admit) and Eichel is AWFUL defensively. Matthews is already a top 5 center in the league defensively, without question.
- LeafGuy89

He's awful defensively? Lol. If you do watch Sabres games, then you don't know what you're watching. He is becoming one of the best defensive centres in the league. His back checking, and ability to read the play are elite already. And lately, he's been going hard into the corners and retrieving 50/50 pucks in all 3 zones. And he does all of this playing with the pressure of knowing he has to put up mind boggling numbers just to give his team a chance to win. People look at his +/- and corsi and assume he's bad defensively. But considering who he plays with -- and the fact he's almost 50% rel CF, it's amazing it's even.

But keep ripping on him. It doesn't matter. He's quickly becoming one of the best players in the world, and a lot of national media is starting to take notice. And he's doing it on an absolutely terrible team, with very little help from his line mates (which are changed every other game) and terrible defenseman.

He still does have some work to do, and isn't perfect, but if you really did watch him and don't notice how dominant he is on both ends, then you really don't have a clue what you're watching. I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I just don't get what you see.

It's not an opinion based topic, though. It's a fact. His stats are inflated because he shoots the puck into an empty net.

Like I said on the last page, I'm not knocking him for doing his job and icing the game. He's doing what he is supposed to do. But it's still a fact 20-25% of his goals are into empty nets.

Sidenote- I thought he had 19 goals. NHL.com is saying 18. Did they take a goal away from him or something?
- GreatGigInTheSky

Not all EN goals are cake. 2 of them only a handful of players would have been able to score. And his points are almost all primary. In fact, he leads the league in primary%. If he had better players and a better PP, he would be raking up way more secondary assists -- but I think he has 2. So the EN kinda makes up for lack of PP scoring and secondary assists. It all usually evens out though by the end of the season.

He's awful defensively? Lol. If you do watch Sabres games, then you don't know what you're watching. He is becoming one of the best defensive centres in the league. His back checking, and ability to read the play are elite already. And lately, he's been going hard into the corners and retrieving 50/50 pucks in all 3 zones. And he does all of this playing with the pressure of knowing he has to put up mind boggling numbers just to give his team a chance to win. People look at his +/- and corsi and assume he's bad defensively. But considering who he plays with -- and the fact he's almost 50% rel CF, it's amazing it's even.

But keep ripping on him. It doesn't matter. He's quickly becoming one of the best players in the world, and a lot of national media is starting to take notice. And he's doing it on an absolutely terrible team, with very little help from his line mates (which are changed every other game) and terrible defenseman.

He still does have some work to do, and isn't perfect, but if you really did watch him and don't notice how dominant he is on both ends, then you really don't have a clue what you're watching. I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I just don't get what you see.
- Dukey3030

Eichel is -13 this year. -42 for his career. His face off winning percentage this year is 41%, 40% for his career. Yup, Eichel is the man you want taking big draws to protect leads

Sorry...still have to disagree. While it is fact that 25% of his goals are into an empty net, it is your view that this means his goal totals are inflated (and like I said....I get that view). If it was a fact then the NHL would treat them as such in their official records (e.g. All-Time leading goal scorer, minus Empty Net goals).
- bullethead7

Then this can't go any further if you're gonna disagree with facts.

He's awful defensively? Lol. If you do watch Sabres games, then you don't know what you're watching. He is becoming one of the best defensive centres in the league. His back checking, and ability to read the play are elite already. And lately, he's been going hard into the corners and retrieving 50/50 pucks in all 3 zones. And he does all of this playing with the pressure of knowing he has to put up mind boggling numbers just to give his team a chance to win. People look at his +/- and corsi and assume he's bad defensively. But considering who he plays with -- and the fact he's almost 50% rel CF, it's amazing it's even.

But keep ripping on him. It doesn't matter. He's quickly becoming one of the best players in the world, and a lot of national media is starting to take notice. And he's doing it on an absolutely terrible team, with very little help from his line mates (which are changed every other game) and terrible defenseman.

He still does have some work to do, and isn't perfect, but if you really did watch him and don't notice how dominant he is on both ends, then you really don't have a clue what you're watching. I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I just don't get what you see.
- Dukey3030

I think maybe you should watch some hockey. 'Cause the part I highlighted in bold couldn't be further from the truth.

Not all EN goals are cake. 2 of them only a handful of players would have been able to score. And his points are almost all primary. In fact, he leads the league in primary%. If he had better players and a better PP, he would be raking up way more secondary assists -- but I think he has 2. So the EN kinda makes up for lack of PP scoring and secondary assists. It all usually evens out though by the end of the season.
- Dukey3030

Of the 3 that I watched live, 1 was from a few feet out slam dunk, and the other 2 he just iced and they went in. Real hard, those goals.

Then this can't go any further if you're gonna disagree with facts.


- GreatGigInTheSky

The official NHL stats do not consider empty net goals any differently than other goals. That's a fact. Don't confuse your opinion with facts.

The official NHL stats do not consider empty net goals any differently than other goals. That's a fact. Don't confuse your opinion with facts.
- bullethead7

That's nice. Anyone with a brain can tell that empty net goals are a (frank) of a lot easier than when the goalie is in the net. Don't confuse common (frank)ing sense with stupidity.