So is everything still terrible?

You know the lazy media will run with it though
- dragonoffrost

ELLIOT HATES PHILADELPHIA FANS

LIKES ROAD GAMES TO GET AWAY FROM STENCH

Right now, given the Flyers' record and all the ground they are trying to make up it's not about development. It's about trying to win games that particular night.

Long term, it won't hurt the young players. Their time will come where they're among the go-to players in crunch time.

History is a good teacher: Go back to 1999-2000, Flyers fans griped when Roger Neilson would elevate Valeri Zelepukin over Simon Gagne in crunch time during the first half of the season. Go back to 2005-06, Flyers fans really, really griped about Ken Hitchcock's "love affair" with Brian Savage and "why isn't Mike Richards getting more ice time" and "I understand why Forsberg was playing more than Jeff Carter but why a washed up Petr Nedved?"

It goes around and around and around. Only the names change. In the reasonably near future, the Weise/Lehterä/ Manning players will be gone and the go-to group will include Patrick, Konecny (although not necessarily when protecting late leads) and Sanheim.

All that being said, I thought Hakstol made the wrong decision to bench Konecny with a 3-goal deficit for most of the third period on Saturday. He was one of the few players creating offense that game and the Flyers were in dire need of a goal from any source that could provide it.
- bmeltzer

Hits the nail on the head. The overreactions to common coaching practices are really unnecessary.

I agree on the Boston game. Also should've broken up the top line in that game.

So is everything still terrible?
- BiggE

You know this board too well! Of course everything is still terrible...Hak isn't playing the kids enough, especially in the 3rd period. The two wins were against far inferior opponents, so those points mean little. It's the typical BS around here...

Not sure why notorious youth friendly coach, Ken Hitchcock, is always a go to example. He also ostracized Patrick Sharp. I really can't say if at some point Konecny doesn't fall into the same category. There's a problem there with him, exemplified no better than the Boston game. He's not a rookie, and it doesn't fly as well as last year to tear him down like one, especially when he is often a positive contributor on his various non-positive lines.

This is also a totally different era of hockey where the youth movement is full bore and ELCs -- productive ELC years -- are essential to not waste.

But honestly, usage like this in small sample isn't that big a deal, especially given the context. If it continues, fine. Sanheim is the exception. He deserves better, has looked very good for the most part after the first few weeks, and he has put in his pro time and it shows. He was very good tonight, but the trust is not there. Hell, when in crunch time, Hakstol trusted Alt more, which is something. We'll see what happens when Gudas returns and they can partner them again (they used them as a 3rd pair the first time despite their success, which was also a terrible usage of Gudas). But he probably would've been scratched on/off for Manning before his injury. I'd even say if they're going to use Laughton as the third line, why not try Konecny with him over Leier? But really I have other bigger issues with how they handle and evaluate young players across both pro teams than minutes in a game in December. That's not a positive statement.
- Mononoke

Alt is steadier and more consistent defensively than Sanheim is, albeit in a small sample.

But Bill, how often do we see juniors coaches or college coaches *ahem* not actually rely on young players and get their veteran crutches (like any other coach) when they arrive at the pro level? Just about every coach was a juniors coach at some point. It's part human nature, part necessity, so I'm not trying to make some other point besides what I wrote in my last post.

But in certain areas, push has to come to shove here, and the point of assembling all this youth was to indeed play them, or at least the ones who have earned their minutes, so to speak. This is not the surefire "playoff team" the team heads say. It's a development team still, and that needs to be kept in sight as well. Trust from their coach and confidence in themselves mean everything. Like I said, as someone who watches all of our prospects at all levels, my issues with development are bigger than minutes in a couple road games in December.
- Mononoke

The problem is that too many fans think developing young players is just to put them out and play them extended minutes in all situations regardless of how the player is playing. It's a process. One of the biggest lessons young players have to learn is that they have to earn ice time and earn the trust of a coach

trying to figure out Hakstol's line of thinking gave ME a concussion
- 2Real

Hits the nail on the head. The overreactions to common coaching practices are really unnecessary.

I agree on the Boston game. Also should've broken up the top line in that game.
- MJL

and yet you've questioned him yourself??

How did we play / look? I dosed off on the couch beginning of the 2nd.

Boesser, Oshie
- dragonoffrost

false

How did we play / look? I dosed off on the couch beginning of the 2nd.
- arichardson22

Very solid overall. They were much better in the neutral zone than in the Calgary game in my opinion. They faced some adversity in the 3rd period and they handled in much better than they have been

You know this board too well! Of course everything is still terrible...Hak isn't playing the kids enough, especially in the 3rd period. The two wins were against far inferior opponents, so those points mean little. It's the typical BS around here...
- aantny88

So, SSDD eh?

sigh

The problem is that too many fans think developing young players is just to put them out and play them extended minutes in all situations regardless of how the player is playing. It's a process. One of the biggest lessons young players have to learn is that they have to earn ice time and earn the trust of a coach
- MJL

not sure why you haven't figured out yet that this is what he has an issue with....the way ice time and trust is earned

false
- YuenglingJagr

DOH he got there the year Hak came here...

DOH he got there the year Hak came here...
- dragonoffrost

Hakstol may have left little clues behind once he left for Boesser to find and read...so maybe he did develop him

Don't let this distract you from everything still being literally terrible

The problem is that too many fans think developing young players is just to put them out and play them extended minutes in all situations regardless of how the player is playing. It's a process. One of the biggest lessons young players have to learn is that they have to earn ice time and earn the trust of a coach
- MJL

Agree with this....also get confused by people saying it ruins their confidence. Getting walked on a goal in the third to cause the team to lose can ruin confidence way more than not being on the ice to start with. Having to sit in the locker room knowing you caused the team to lose or go to OT because of your frank up can be even worse.

I get the frustration some have at the slope of the learning curve Hak employs but I dont think its that unreasonable when leading.

Just my 2 cents

not sure why you haven't figured out yet that this is what he has an issue with....the way ice time and trust is earned
- YuenglingJagr

Making it personal again


Patrick's game has deteriorated and he has been having puck management issues. Ice time is being used to try and correct those issues. I think there have been some decisions that I don't agree with such as the 3rd period in the Boston game but overall I have no problems with how Hakstol has been handling the young players.

not sure why you haven't figured out yet that this is what he has an issue with....the way ice time and trust is earned
- YuenglingJagr

Because he just wants to argue

I noticed Provorov has really upped his physical play and snarl in recent games. He has never been a soft player, but if this added element is a trend, my God he is going to be an animal.

Some observations from last night's game and just Flyers stuff in general:

Can really see now why Hextall preferred signing Elliott over re-signing Mason. Not only has his play been solid, but this guy is all about the team and never about himself. This is the attitude you want from your starting goalie. I also thought he played very well in each of the last 2 games, but I am a little concerned with him starting his 3rd game in 4 nights.

Ivan Provorov was a flat out horse last night. He shut down McJesus and gave the Flyers 28+ outstanding minutes. What he's doing at age 20 is just remarkable.

Coots made a rare mistake last night which led to the SH goal against, but he more than made up for it with his overall play. If he's not in discussion for the Selke trophy, it would be a disgrace.

Yeah, Mark Alt is a solid defensive Dman...in the AHL. In the NHL he's a deep reserve. Sanheim has been playing pretty well, Hak needs to give him a shot right now on the PK, at least until Gudas returns.

I understand shortening the bench and what Hak is doing to win games right now. In the short term it will do no harm to Patrick or Konecny. However, at some point this season, both need a chance to play more. I also think at some point soon, Hak should have them on different lines. Maybe something like:

G-Coots-Simmonds
Raffl-Patrick-Voracek
Weal-Filppula-TK
Leier-Laughton-Weise

While it's great to see them win back to back games, I still the playoffs are a longshot at best. They will still likely need at least 92 points minimum to get in and I just don't see this team picking up 65 points in 54 games. With that in mind, Hextall needs to at least listen to offers for guys like Simmonds and Gudas as the deadline approaches. And, if the offer is good enough, he needs to make the deal.

Don't let this distract you from everything still being literally terrible
- Giroux_Is_God

Always

I noticed Provorov has really upped his physical play and snarl in recent games. He has never been a soft player, but if this added element is a trend, my God he is going to be an animal.
- MBFlyerfan

Yup, the kid can do it all. He's going to be the cornerstone of this D group for a very long time and that's just awesome!

Because he just wants to argue
- Giroux_Is_God

No, it's because I think he is wrong. How does your comment here contribute to the quality of the conversation?

No, it's because I think he is wrong. How does your comment here contribute to the quality of the conversation?
- MJL

The quality of your conversations are quite low. I do believe it increased slightly.