Do you trade Kane for multiple pieces coming back for a re-build? Even 88 looks like a dumpster fire. From #1 in the West last year to this. I know its a long season but how far back can we fall and expect to somehow make it to the playoffs? Tonight was damn hard to watch. Every pass was grenade. PP continues to be a circus. Where do you start?? Geezus

And right now with CC out.. 17, 12, 40 are your best players. Yep. Lance Bouma.


- z1990z

LOL. yep, Lance Bouma is getting it done. Last year was an aberration...collecting points because of insane tending by Crow and Darling, cashing in on the skills competition and generally good timing in the schedule. That "top in the west", was an absolute fluke, as proven by Nashville in that butt kicking and as proven this year.

I have no idea what to trade, who, how and to which team. It looks like the Hawks are hamstrung at this point given the diminished players getting massive unmovable salaries.

I think Kane, Keith, and Anisimov are the most movable, but 2 of them at least have NTCs and AA wouldn't bring you back a bounty. A team a goalie away from Cup contending would absolutely be interested in Crawford. But of course, moving Crawford would absolutely be the end...Forsberg and Berube' can't be expected to give up 2 or fewer goals every game...Crawford can often do it.

Keith ended up - 4 tonight. He's now -11 on the year which puts him at 12th worse in the league.

Hawks GF / GA 5-on-5 this year are 54/47, good for a +7. Yet, #2 is in the red big time.

Not a good season so far.
- Justin Lowe

I have Kane and Saad in my office pool...they were collectively -6 tonight. Ouch.

I have Kane and Saad in my office pool...they were collectively -6 tonight. Ouch.
- DarthKane

What the HELL is up with this team DK??

Boy the knives are out tonight ,and the same old same old , I know now who to just slide by . Injury and a tough schedule mean nothing . I still believe the game has changed and Q should be kicked upstairs to see what Stan deals with everyday . Bring Back Vinny !!!

Boy the knives are out tonight ,and the same old same old , I know now who to just slide by . Injury and a tough schedule mean nothing . I still believe the game has changed and Q should be kicked upstairs to see what Stan deals with everyday . Bring Back Vinny !!!
- oldduffman

Hopefully the Bowmans will be the first ones gone in the off-season

- Goalie-33

Should be the case... while this team probably has no chance to make the playoffs he is sitting around doing nothing to stop the bleeding or at least put a spark in this team for a jump...

Blowman does what blowman does best... sit in the suite with the company and pulls his d***

What the HELL is up with this team DK??


- z1990z

I don’t know buddy but they’re sure testing the limits of my positivity.

I don’t believe for a second that Toews, Saad, Kane and Keith are done. They may be on the decline (hopefully not Saad) but they still have some quality hockey left in them. Seabrook can still contribute when used right.

If somebody told me at the start of the season that Rutta, Forsling, Murphy and DeBrincat were all significant contributors (in their own way) at around the 30 game mark I would have thought the Hawks would be leading the West.

If the guys in the first group I mentioned can play up to their proven potential and the guys in the second group keep playing the way they are this team will have much better results.

out of curiosity, have you heard or would you care to share your thoughts on what you think these larger moves might look like?

I do not think many, if any teams would take on Brent Seabrook at this point. Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kanes contracts are both absolutely massive and would require hefty returns. And what will moving Corey Crawford with one year left on his contract really fetch them in return?

If they think the cap is gonna go up, along with removing Panarins bonus money, I can see them getting creative. But even now you have to wonder what free agents wanna come play for the Hawks when there are a lot of other younger and better teams emerging around the league.
- frafra

The Hawks are in a tough spot because I think they thought they had a few years left in this cup window. They still might think that, tbh.

Larger moves of Toews, Kane and/or Keith aren't happening unless it gets so bad that accept and have a PR spin to the fans that a rebuild is happening. They are really scared of this because of those dark times (just 10 years ago) with this organization. They really are banking on this momentum to continue like it did with Detroit. The problem being with that is a dynasty like that and the success Scotty had with those Red Wings teams are so hard to maintain in today's NHL.

So what a "larger move" could look like isn't hard to visualize with this team's current status:

- Toews is the Captain and the face of the franchise
- Kane is another face of the franchise, makes the team a lot of money and the only true game-breaker at the moment.
- Keith's contract is so good and can still be a top 4 D for the remainder of his contract
- Crawford is only getting better at keeping the Hawks in games and they don't have much for goaltending prospects in the pipeline. Keeping Darling over #50 would have been the time to move him for a return, but that opportunity have passed.


Therefore, I can see moving out pieces like Anisimov, Panik, Seabrook (potentially in a Seabs+prospect for next to nothing type deal) and maybe moving on from someone like Schmaltz or Hartman to get value players back as potential options.

One thing to keep an eye on is how Stan looks to redesign this team's "identity and character". It was something the he specifically called out to Bouma and Wingels when he signed them. Quotes like "we lost our way" highlight that he's looking to re-invent the foundation of this team internally, not just with the skill on the ice, but who is brought in as the next wave of supporting leadership.

Notice how he's tried to build chemistry through younger guys who knew each other from high school, minors, etc. like Hartman and Hinostroza (high school friends), Schmaltz, Hayden, Louis all from the Ill. area.

This was a big part when the Hawks were building something special around 2007-08 with guys like Colin Fraser, Kris Versteeg, Troy Brouwer, Keith, Seabrook; all guys played with or against each other in Western Canada.

It's something overlooked but shouldn't be, especially now with the cap salary era. If they can build something special with some of these guys, along with a great, winning culture in Rockford (hence the changes there to bring in Colliton) this goes a long way to creating a team that believes in and will do anything for each other.

There obviously has to be talent, it can't just be a bunch of "buddies" on the ice, but Stan's comments and moves over the last couple years seemed to signal that he's aiming to build back up a strong backbone to this team.

Question being, how long is this all going to take? Stan is trying to rebuild on the fly but you may see them look for a player like Wayne Simmonds (not him specifically, but he's a huge character guy) or Ryan Callahan (once again, not him, but plays a massive part for that TB team) type.


This is a really long winded way of saying, I think it's too early to see them move one of the big guys (with exception of a creative deal to move Seabrook) but keep an eye on those tier 2 guys they move out / bring in. I think we see a really strong character guy (or 2) brought in.

So,

How many fans will now drive an hour, pay an average per ticket price of $100, $30 to park, $10 for a Bud Light, $10 for a hot dog, and drive an hour home for this dumpster fire?

This my friends is the problem best solved by lighting a fire under the vets. If the fire doesn’t work, you know who to trade, and if the fire is too hot, NMCs mysteriously get waived.

Mike Keenan may be exactly the size and scope of the fire required, because Q aint gettin it done.

Mark Lazerus‏ @MarkLazerus

Duncan Keith: "I know I can be better and I have to be better. It’s not good enough. Everybody can see the standings, what they are, and we want to be better than what we have been right now. Obviously it’s not been good enough and we need to be better."

Q on if he needs to sit guys or call up some guys: "We’ll talk about it."

Q: "You can be misled by the shot clock, or maybe it looked like we had some looks there. ... Our shots hit them right int he chest, with no chance of getting a second opportunity. It’s almost like we gave the puck back to them, just putting it at the net with no purpose.”

Is Toews concerned? "When you say you’re concerned, it means that you doubt yourself and you don’t think that you have what it takes to be where you want to be in the standings. But for us, that’s not at all the case."

Laz: I know nobody wants to hear it. And I know it doesn't excuse this. But the Blackhawks look and sound dog-ass tired. Six games, 10 days, four cities. It's been brutal. Three home games against bad teams coming up. Let's see what happens.

=====

This year's schedule seems to be getting to them more than usual. And, I'd love to see their high shot/low goal issues addressed with some actual shooting drills (game simulated) with an legit offensive coach (like the guy Kane trains with in the summers). Zen-meister Toews needs to get a little of his infamous hyper-competitiveness back. All his total human optimization study isn't optimizing his performance (or Keith's for that matter), at least on ice.

The Hawks are in a tough spot because I think they thought they had a few years left in this cup window. They still might think that, tbh.

Larger moves of Toews, Kane and/or Keith aren't happening unless it gets so bad that accept and have a PR spin to the fans that a rebuild is happening. They are really scared of this because of those dark times (just 10 years ago) with this organization. They really are banking on this momentum to continue like it did with Detroit. The problem being with that is a dynasty like that and the success Scotty had with those Red Wings teams are so hard to maintain in today's NHL.

So what a "larger move" could look like isn't hard to visualize with this team's current status:

- Toews is the Captain and the face of the franchise
- Kane is another face of the franchise, makes the team a lot of money and the only true game-breaker at the moment.
- Keith's contract is so good and can still be a top 4 D for the remainder of his contract
- Crawford is only getting better at keeping the Hawks in games and they don't have much for goaltending prospects in the pipeline. Keeping Darling over #50 would have been the time to move him for a return, but that opportunity have passed.


Therefore, I can see moving out pieces like Anisimov, Panik, Seabrook (potentially in a Seabs+prospect for next to nothing type deal) and maybe moving on from someone like Schmaltz or Hartman to get value players back as potential options.

One thing to keep an eye on is how Stan looks to redesign this team's "identity and character". It was something the he specifically called out to Bouma and Wingels when he signed them. Quotes like "we lost our way" highlight that he's looking to re-invent the foundation of this team internally, not just with the skill on the ice, but who is brought in as the next wave of supporting leadership.

Notice how he's tried to build chemistry through younger guys who knew each other from high school, minors, etc. like Hartman and Hinostroza (high school friends), Schmaltz, Hayden, Louis all from the Ill. area.

This was a big part when the Hawks were building something special around 2007-08 with guys like Colin Fraser, Kris Versteeg, Troy Brouwer, Keith, Seabrook; all guys played with or against each other in Western Canada.

It's something overlooked but shouldn't be, especially now with the cap salary era. If they can build something special with some of these guys, along with a great, winning culture in Rockford (hence the changes there to bring in Colliton) this goes a long way to creating a team that believes in and will do anything for each other.

There obviously has to be talent, it can't just be a bunch of "buddies" on the ice, but Stan's comments and moves over the last couple years seemed to signal that he's aiming to build back up a strong backbone to this team.

Question being, how long is this all going to take? Stan is trying to rebuild on the fly but you may see them look for a player like Wayne Simmonds (not him specifically, but he's a huge character guy) or Ryan Callahan (once again, not him, but plays a massive part for that TB team) type.


This is a really long winded way of saying, I think it's too early to see them move one of the big guys (with exception of a creative deal to move Seabrook) but keep an eye on those tier 2 guys they move out / bring in. I think we see a really strong character guy (or 2) brought in.
- Justin Lowe

He does a similar thing with foreign players; he doesn't like having any "only's" on the team, he'll bring in a fellow countryman so guys have someone else on the team to relate to, especially their first year. Less important for a guy like AA now that he's been with the team a few years and has been around a while in the NHL.

Mark Lazerus‏ @MarkLazerus

Duncan Keith: "I know I can be better and I have to be better. It’s not good enough. Everybody can see the standings, what they are, and we want to be better than what we have been right now. Obviously it’s not been good enough and we need to be better."

Q on if he needs to sit guys or call up some guys: "We’ll talk about it."

Q: "You can be misled by the shot clock, or maybe it looked like we had some looks there. ... Our shots hit them right int he chest, with no chance of getting a second opportunity. It’s almost like we gave the puck back to them, just putting it at the net with no purpose.”

Is Toews concerned? "When you say you’re concerned, it means that you doubt yourself and you don’t think that you have what it takes to be where you want to be in the standings. But for us, that’s not at all the case."

Laz: I know nobody wants to hear it. And I know it doesn't excuse this. But the Blackhawks look and sound dog-ass tired. Six games, 10 days, four cities. It's been brutal. Three home games against bad teams coming up. Let's see what happens.

=====

This year's schedule seems to be getting to them more than usual. And, I'd love to see their high shot/low goal issues addressed with some actual shooting drills (game simulated) with an legit offensive coach (like the guy Kane trains with in the summers). Zen-meister Toews needs to get a little of his infamous hyper-competitiveness back. All his total human optimization study isn't optimizing his performance (or Keith's for that matter), at least on ice.
- pdx2ord

What's missing in your post is Q's tone of voice. Not a happy coach and well past 'disappointed'. He knows he has a mediocre hockey team that can't compete in the Central Division over 82 games without some big changes - both on the blue line and up front. They are a 5th place team in their division when guys like Kane, Saad, Toews, Hartman, Sharp and Schmaltz don't provide any offence. Don't score = can't win.

And as for the GM, firing coaches is the quick fix/easy way out. Time to get off your butt and make some personnel moves regardless of who can be claimed on waivers. What good is sitting out Kero and Kempny every night if they are deemed not good enough and not taking a look at a few guys from Rockford who might help.

Brooks Orpik as a tough guy is funny in the article. He's one of the biggest pansy's in the league.

And this pulling the goalie crap with 3 minutes left deflates the team and is PATHETIC QUENNEVILLE.
FIRE THIS HOF COACH PLEASE !!
It's time for change.
- Hawkytalk

Bring Mike Keenan back

Bab's would love him.

Maybe he's pissed he's playing w/Franson?
- gazza53

Maybe he’s pissed he’s being paid $5,000,000 this year and Seabrook’s getting paid $9,000,000!

- kwolf68

And that would be one to slide by without even a read ..Boring

This a team with no confidence and flawed team the way it was constructed. Bowman screwed up with the moves in the offseason he got rid of 4 very good defensive players hammer TVR darling and kruger. Also one best offensive players in panrin and what did we get return pretty much nothing again so if the hawks do miss the playoffs the bowman's have got to go how many f**k ups can one gm make and still keep is job. I know Wirtz and McDough are very loyal to the bowman's but its time to make the right business decision and clean house. Q is at fault also his old ways don't work no more and seems puzzeled on how fix what is going on this year nothing is working. I know I'll probably get roasted for this but maybe trading kane and kieth and starting the rebuild in the offseason wouldn't be a bad team just don't want the hawks end up like Detroit.

I have a hard time thinking McD is willing to move away from 2, 19, & 88 just yet.

The CBA might/could/probably will get opened up again in September 2019. That might be a time for cap-strapped teams to let go of a contract or two or three.

So, I'm wondering if maybe the front office is considering whether or not they could make one more cup run next year. They'd need comeback seasons from 2 & 7 & 19; big years from 88 & 50 & 20, a few additions that can contribute, and big jumps in development from the younger guys.

A LOT would need to come together to make it work. But they might want to take that chance with the CBA looming in the near future. And, if 19 and 7 can't regain more of their lost games, they might think about retirement or LTIR after giving it a good try.

I'd be tempted if I were them. See who can be acquired now or next summer that has a contract expiring at the end of next year (2019) who would be useful - Wayne Simmonds, Hammer, Pacioretty, etc. If it doesn't work, buy out whoever needs buying out and move on with the rebuild. But at least you'd have tried.

This year is looking like a lost cause right now. Stranger things have happened and I'd love to see them pull it together but it ain't looking good.
- matt_ahrens

Just addressing the CBA:

It’s apparent that the league is looking to expand to a 32nd team in Seattle by 2019-20 or the next year - another $500MM to split amongst themselves.

A lock-out / lost games / lost season would certainly put a crimp in that plan.

I’m thinking the owners would be much more willing to smooth player issues and keep the league going at a September 2019 re-opening, especially since the CBA would naturally expire after another 3 years.

This a team with no confidence and flawed team the way it was constructed. Bowman screwed up with the moves in the offseason he got rid of 4 very good defensive players hammer TVR darling and kruger. Also one best offensive players in panrin and what did we get return pretty much nothing again so if the hawks do miss the playoffs the bowman's have got to go how many f**k ups can one gm make and still keep is job. I know Wirtz and McDough are very loyal to the bowman's but its time to make the right business decision and clean house. Q is at fault also his old ways don't work no more and seems puzzeled on how fix what is going on this year nothing is working. I know I'll probably get roasted for this but maybe trading kane and kieth and starting the rebuild in the offseason wouldn't be a bad team just don't want the hawks end up like Detroit.
- Scott1977

Hate to say this ....WE ALREADY ARE.... So who's at fault GM/Coach or Players?? How is it that no one saw this coming??
I'm not mad to be honest having experiencing the Golden Era of Hawks Hockey between 2010-2015 with 3 Stanley Cups. For that I am truly appreciative with all that they have accomplished. What a joy ride just sad that its OVER..

Going Forward If the Hawks become the worst team in the Central next year or this year.

What are Toews and Kane to do?
“Face of the Franchise & winning is one thing
“Face of the Franchise & Losing is a different thing”

Chevrolet
Drive what Kane and Toews Drive- Yikes
- Colbyboy

Chevy will drop them and they will be doing toilet bowl and depends commercials.



Once again, I am so glad I didn't renew my tickets.

Bring Mike Keenan back
- vandymeer23

I'm entertained with the stuff you write, except not this time. Think of Keenan as a carpenter. If he came here now he'd be working without power tools. Keenan is and always has been a 2 year act with a 5 year contract. No way is he a good fit here now.

Kane makes plays and while not great anymore, Keith is still very good. Seabrook and Toews are so mediocre (at best) it's tough to watch. Wtf happened to those two guys...not even half the players they were in 2015
- EnzoD

If I had the answers

Just addressing the CBA:

It’s apparent that the league is looking to expand to a 32nd team in Seattle by 2019-20 or the next year - another $500MM to split amongst themselves.

A lock-out / lost games / lost season would certainly put a crimp in that plan.

I’m thinking the owners would be much more willing to smooth player issues and keep the league going at a September 2019 re-opening, especially since the CBA would naturally expire after another 3 years.
- StLBravesFan

Good point with this post and I hope you're right. If/when they do the next CBA hopefully they will give some cap consideration to a team that develops their own prospects. The longer a team has a player the more that player gets paid, and the more it hurts a team that does a good job drafting and developing. In my opinion it would be good for the game and fair to the fans of those teams. It would be one way for the NHL to make a case that it's not all just about the money and that the league actually cares about the fans as much as the money. Nothing in this league will ever be more important than the money.

Don't think that's happening anytime soon unfortunately.

Stan made big changes in the summer that were unpopular by some in the organization, but Stan got the blessing from McD and they were prepping for the future to keep this team competitive for years.

That was the thought anyway.

It appears that those moves did not work for the short-term. Well, that is a difficult thing to analyze actually, because the moves weren't terrible on their own, but couple them with the core that look tired and unproductive and you have trouble.

Now, what type of moves does Stan make from here.

I'm hearing that bigger changes won't happen until the off-season, so expect minor transactions (ie. Hinostroza call up and/or a depth acquistion) in the interim.
- Justin Lowe

Moves were needed to made for sure and anyone thinking Panarin
over Saad would be a fix is highly -----.

If so why not change coaches, oh marketing, I forgot the marketing.

DIING! I said this long ago, the Hawks core was great, but they won those Cups because of SUPERIOR depth. A few guys cashed in, were marketed well, but it took boys like Bolland, Oduya, Hossa, Vermette, Laddy, Buff, Richards, poop even NICK freaking Boynton to win Cups. Six guys NEVER did it alone. But were paid like it. Thanks to them for what they gave, they opted to cash in and now they should reside themselves to playing for 80 point teams at best in front of half empty barns.

All that said, HELL OF A RUN boys, 3 Stanley Cups...damn special.
- kwolf68

Yes, Yes, and Yes