The Flyers as an organ-eye-zation love them some playoff round monies. Gotta try to make the playoffs and develop the kids at the same time.
- Flyskippy

I want to see us compete don't get me wrong. But we had a 3 goal lead. Its not like it was 1 goal in a tight game. They should of been given the opportunity to play some. If it went poorly you shorten the bench. We also shortened it way too early. It's scared coaching. It's no good for winning games and it's no good for player development.

This team can be a playoff team. They should be fighting for a wild card spot. And I am not sure how him sitting some rookies is hurting them in final moments. Hakstol isn't the only coach that would do it. Any coach is going to put his best players at protecting a lead out. Right now that is not guys like Konecny, Patrick, Sanheim or Weal.

It's delusional just to assume that the best way to develop a young player is to just sick him out in every situation and see if they fight or freeze.

I love the youth that is starting to join this team but i also know that development isn't just "play them and it will all work out"
- J35Bacher

Agreed, the best way is to play them between 7 and 9 minutes per game and to sit them for a period even if they have not played worse than everyone else.

We are not a playoff team. There are 5 teams in our division alone who are legitimately better than us. I thought at the season if we beat expectations we might get a wild card. We got our worst fears instead.

Having a young guy play 7 8 minutes a night is developing nobody. You want them to get better at things you have to develop them in those areas and than give them the opportunity to execute them. I don't need the kids to see 5 minutes protecting a lead but it was a 3 GOAL LEAD. They should have been out some. If it's cut to 2 you shorten the bench. We are coaching and playing beyond scared. And it's not benching them for the final few minutes it's entire third periods. It's a joke. If our team window is not now you don't sit your young guys every third period to win a few more games you let them develop. I disagree 110% with everything you said and I'm going to just discontinue the rest of this debate because there's 0 common ground.
- Tfaehner

On average the young players are playing far more than 7-8 minutes a night. The Patrick line with Koncecny and Weise got shellacked last night. They weren't generating any offense and were bleeding shots against. I think the thought that there is a difference between 2 and 3 goals up with this team is shortsighted. This team has been very fragile and one goal scored against on this team when they've had a lead has quickly escalated into more. Hakstol did the right thing last night.

On average the young players are playing far more than 7-8 minutes a night. The Patrick line with Koncecny and Weise got shellacked last night. They weren't generating any offense and were bleeding shots against. I think the thought that there is a difference between 2 and 3 goals up with this team is shortsighted. This team has been very fragile and one goal scored against on this team when they've had a lead has quickly escalated into more. Hakstol did the right thing last night.
- MJL

The coach put that line together. I actually want to see tk and simmer switch places next game I think that would be better for those 2 lines. See how that goes. Going into Edmonton I already know the young lines won't get any time late in the game because we need 3 lines to neutralize the mcdavid line right? Good coaching right?

The coach put that line together. I actually want to see tk and simmer switch places next game I think that would be better for those 2 lines. See how that goes. Going into Edmonton I already know the young lines won't get any time late in the game because we need 3 lines to neutralize the mcdavid line right? Good coaching right?
- Tfaehner

Based on what was happening last night, what Hakstol did last night was good coaching. As opposed to the Boston game where he refused to break up the top line even though they were getting shutdown by the Bergeron/Chara matchup.

We are not a playoff team. There are 5 teams in our division alone who are legitimately better than us. I thought at the season if we beat expectations we might get a wild card. We got our worst fears instead.

Having a young guy play 7 8 minutes a night is developing nobody. You want them to get better at things you have to develop them in those areas and than give them the opportunity to execute them. I don't need the kids to see 5 minutes protecting a lead but it was a 3 GOAL LEAD. They should have been out some. If it's cut to 2 you shorten the bench. We are coaching and playing beyond scared. And it's not benching them for the final few minutes it's entire third periods. It's a joke. If our team window is not now you don't sit your young guys every third period to win a few more games you let them develop. I disagree 110% with everything you said and I'm going to just discontinue the rest of this debate because there's 0 common ground.
- Tfaehner

If they weren't on a 10 game losing streak you might have seen the kids out there with a 3 goal lead. Last night they had to shorten the bench and get the win. This team was playing scared because they are scared. 10 game losing streaks are rarely tolerated. The players are now on notice that the GM isn't firing the coach so it's their asses on the line. Coach is going to play the vets last night and if they choke then we know who can go. Last night was about finding out if the vets have the testicular fortitude to hunker down and win that game. You may see the same thing for a few games with leads. But as the season wears on I expect the kids to get some lead protecting time.

People being hard on Patrick need to relax. All I will say is look at Coots.
- Buzzo

agreed as only took 7 years to "break out" offensively.

Glad to see the boys win one last night and actually show a pulse! The key though will be, can they follow this up with wins vs Edmonton and/or Vancouver.

Also, if what Bill alludes is true, and Sanheim takes a seat when Gudas returns, Im not going to be happy. The kid needs to play. The last thing this team needs are kids like Sanheim, Konecny and Patrick playing scared that any mistake will have them glued to the bench or scratched. Unless they keep making the same mistakes over and over again, you need to let them play through it and learn from their miscues.
- BiggE

good God.

Based on what was happening last night, what Hakstol did last night was good coaching. As opposed to the Boston game where he refused to break up the top line even though they were getting shutdown by the Bergeron/Chara matchup.
- MJL

It was a panic move from a desperate coach. It worked but it's not above critiscim. If the benching of young players like this continues I promise you hasktol seat won't getting any less hot. Regardless of what our record is. It would be like the Sixers benching joel embiid for amir Johnson late it games cause he makes mistakes. They have given up and lost more than a few leads. But guess what ? That will never happen. Because they know the future of the team is him learning how to close out games.

No issue with the coach's use of personal at all last night.

Hopefully Weise is out for the Edmonton game. He was just useless out there. At this point, I'd rather see Lehtera in.

Hopefully Weise is out for the Edmonton game. He was just useless out there. At this point, I'd rather see Lehtera in.
- BiggE

I'd rather see neither in, but don't want to see it happen due to any serious injury.

However, was it Weal or Konecny that took the hit, they'd be held out for 2-3 months for "precautionary reasons."

If they weren't on a 10 game losing streak you might have seen the kids out there with a 3 goal lead. Last night they had to shorten the bench and get the win. This team was playing scared because they are scared. 10 game losing streaks are rarely tolerated. The players are now on notice that the GM isn't firing the coach so it's their asses on the line. Coach is going to play the vets last night and if they choke then we know who can go. Last night was about finding out if the vets have the testicular fortitude to hunker down and win that game. You may see the same thing for a few games with leads. But as the season wears on I expect the kids to get some lead protecting time.
- dragonoffrost

He can't trade away the whole team regardless of what he says. And I think if we remain a bottom 5 team he has no choice but to fire hasktol. I don't care if that's now or at the end of the season though as I don't think any of the mid season coaching choices are all that great. We did not play this great game last night.

It was a panic move from a desperate coach. It worked but it's not above critiscim. If the benching of young players like this continues I promise you hasktol seat won't getting any less hot. Regardless of what our record is. It would be like the Sixers benching joel embiid for amir Johnson late it games cause he makes mistakes. They have given up and lost more than a few leads. But guess what ? That will never happen. Because they know the future of the team is him learning how to close out games.
- Tfaehner

It's not even remotely close to a panic move. No reason to criticize it last night. It worked. They were aided by the bad 5 match penalty call but the strategy worked. Criticizing the coach for that is not being objective in my opinion.

Yea, let's compare basketball to hockey.

Rest assured though, Hakstol is still on the hot seat.

I get it. But I just think Manning is a better skater and just has better puck skills. Just my opinion.
- J35Bacher

Hopefully Weise is out for the Edmonton game. He was just useless out there. At this point, I'd rather see Lehtera in.
- BiggE

Those two are interchangeable parts to me. One or the other in fine. But both shouldn't be in the same game unless injuries dictate it and even then I'd rather get a kid from Lehigh up.

It's not even remotely close to a panic move. No reason to criticize it last night. It worked. They were aided by the bad 5 match penalty call but the strategy worked. Criticizing the coach for that is not being objective in my opinion.

Yea, let's compare basketball to hockey.

Rest assured though, Hakstol is still on the hot seat.
- MJL

Compare any sport. The best way to develop a kid is to coach him and than give him a chance to execute what you coached and than give him feedback after. We seem to be missing steps 1 and 2.

It's not even remotely close to a panic move. No reason to criticize it last night. It worked. They were aided by the bad 5 match penalty call but the strategy worked. Criticizing the coach for that is not being objective in my opinion.

Yea, let's compare basketball to hockey.

Rest assured though, Hakstol is still on the hot seat.
- MJL

Everyone is on the hot seat. But I feel the players are on a little hotter right now. Hextall realizes that this core has had 3 coaches and the same poop happens.

Agreed, the best way is to play them between 7 and 9 minutes per game and to sit them for a period even if they have not played worse than everyone else.
- jmatchett383

The Patrick line wasn't that great last night.

Here are some ATOI for this season I was able to find:

Travis Konecny - 14.07
Robert Hagg - 19.23
Jordan Weal - 12.56
Nolan Patrick - 12.31

Other names:
Nico Heischier - 16.14
Pavel Zacha - 13.40
Patrick Laine - 16.22
Mark Jankowski - 12.37
Curtis Lazar - 10.22
Zemgus Girgenson - 11.47
Sam Reinhart - 16.14


Now it's not perfect because of PP and SH situations. but can you honestly say that our young players are playing so much less then others.

The Patrick line wasn't that great last night.

Here are some ATOI for this season I was able to find:

Travis Konecny - 14.07
Robert Hagg - 19.23
Jordan Weal - 12.56
Nolan Patrick - 12.31

Other names:
Nico Heischier - 16.14
Pavel Zacha - 13.40
Patrick Laine - 16.22
Mark Jankowski - 12.37
Curtis Lazar - 10.22
Zemgus Girgenson - 11.47
Sam Reinhart - 16.14


Now it's not perfect because of PP and SH situations. but can you honestly say that our young players are playing so much less then others.
- J35Bacher

Outside hagg whose responsibilities have continually increased the rest started the season playing more minutes and they have gradually decreased as the season went on. So yes. I have an issue. Also lets evaluate the team each of these are on. Are they bottom dwellers?

Those two are interchangeable parts to me. One or the other in fine. But both shouldn't be in the same game unless injuries dictate it and even then I'd rather get a kid from Lehigh up.
- dragonoffrost

Realistically, I'd rather see any of Vecchione, Lindblom or Martel in for either one of the 2 stiffs, but I'm not holding my breath.

Compare any sport. The best way to develop a kid is to coach him and than give him a chance to execute what you coached and than give him feedback after. We seem to be missing steps 1 and 2.
- Tfaehner

How can you say step one is missing. And with TK step 1 and 2 have happened which leads to step 3 which is him sitting on the pine. It was pointed out about the passes up the boards that go to the other team. TK keeps making them he's going to keep seeing time on the pine. The idea that he singles out kids for mistakes is right but it's because you hope to stop the behavior before it become normal.

Realistically, I'd rather see any of Vecchione, Lindblom or Martel in for either one of the 2 stiffs, but I'm not holding my breath.
- BiggE

they're not ready...

Outside hagg whose responsibilities have continually increased the rest started the season playing more minutes and they have gradually decreased as the season went on. So yes. I have an issue. Also lets evaluate the team each of these are on. Are they bottom dwellers?
- Tfaehner

2 Buffalo and 2 Calgary I'd say are where we are...

2 Jersey players not so much.

Outside hagg whose responsibilities have continually increased the rest started the season playing more minutes and they have gradually decreased as the season went on. So yes. I have an issue. Also lets evaluate the team each of these are on. Are they bottom dwellers?
- Tfaehner

I named two from Buffalo so yes they are.

And I said it wasn't perfect. Yes some of these teams have better supporting casts.