You're creating a false dichotomy. What you need is both.
- gcomella34

NO you literally dont.

How did Chicago turn around their losing culture?
How did Pittsburgh?
how Did Tampa?
How did the Patriots?
Why haven't the Bills been good for the last 18 years? There is a video online that shows every coach talking about chaing the culture for teh last 15+ years. Why haven't they been able to do that? Because they haven't found a QB who can win.

No problem, just win the lottery
Dahlen- Risto
Scandella-Guhle
McCabe-Antipin
Bogosian
- mattmoulson

we deserve this one right

Or, maybe, he just is not as good as we thought. The entire Reinhart family has turned out to be not so great.

I'm so glad AHL time helped Luke Adam, Nathan Gerbe, Mark Mancari, Cory Conacher.
All AHL greats that came through the system.
- ImThatGuy

Look at Pittsburgh's roster last year

Outside of Crosby Malking and Letang most of their entire team spent significant time in the AHL...

Not everyone is Crosby

For accurately identifying half of the equation of establishing a solid franchise, yeah you're absolutely right.

And acquiring talent is harder than developing a winning culture, I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

But you need both, the depth of an organization shows when adversity hits. Teams with good depth and talent win their way out of it. Teams with good depth and no high-end talent, stay in it and handle it well without turning on each other. Teams with talent and no depth tend to self destruct in it.
- gcomella34

FTFY

Bogo part deux. Tanev can't play a whole season
- jcragcrumple

yeah but the 70 ish games he does play hes 10x better

Or, maybe, he just is not as good as we thought. The entire Reinhart family has turned out to be not so great.

I'm so glad AHL time helped Luke Adam, Nathan Gerbe, Mark Mancari, Cory Conacher.
All AHL greats that came through the system.
- ImThatGuy

Agreed, Reinhart may not be that good as we thought for sure, but he has had some solid point producing seasons, that's what's happened. He's still, what top 10 in NHL points for his draft class? And I think I'm being cautious.

Again, no one is saying ALL prospects in the AHL that are great become great NHL players. Merely the CHANCES are better.

But part of turning late round picks into success stories is their development. You need a solid AHL team to do that.

didnt the one world series red sox team drink beer and eat fried chicken before games

maybe thats the culture we need

Look at Pittsburgh's roster last year

Outside of Crosby Malking and Letang most of their entire team spent significant time in the AHL...

Not everyone is Crosby
- Stripes77

So the Penguins having 3 of the best players in the entire league has nothing to do with it?


So you are saying playing in the AHL has a direct correlation to success in the NHL? Because that is what i am getting out of this.

Next it will be you need to "Learn how to win"

yeah but the 70 ish games he does play hes 10x better
- Sabresfan-365

He's only played 70 games once in his career, and never played more

29
25
38
64
69
70
53
18 (this year)

FTFY
- jcragcrumple

Ok, so what you're saying is culture doesn't matter as long as you have talent? No talented team has ever imploded, those teams are always talent deficient?

Agreed, Reinhart may not be that good as we thought for sure, but he has had some solid point producing seasons, that's what's happened. He's still, what top 10 in NHL points for his draft class? And I think I'm being cautious.

Again, no one is saying ALL prospects in the AHL that are great become great NHL players. Merely the CHANCES are better.

But part of turning late round picks into success stories is their development. You need a solid AHL team to do that.
- gcomella34

I disagree, you cant develop talent. You either have it or you don't. Hitting on late round picks is purely luck.

So the Penguins having 3 of the best players in the entire league has nothing to do with it?


So you are saying playing in the AHL has a direct correlation to success in the NHL? Because that is what i am getting out of this.

Next it will be you need to "Learn how to win"
- ImThatGuy

Depth wins championships

That's why Chicago didn't get out of the first round last year

So the Penguins having 3 of the best players in the entire league has nothing to do with it?


So you are saying playing in the AHL has a direct correlation to success in the NHL? Because that is what i am getting out of this.

Next it will be you need to "Learn how to win"
- ImThatGuy

Who is saying that?

Look, if you're going to argue with someone, at least characterize their statements accurately. If you don't understand, ask the person what they mean.

It's a rather simple concept.

I disagree, you cant develop talent. You either have it or you don't. Hitting on late round picks is purely luck.
- ImThatGuy

OK, I don't feel the same way but it's fair.

Ok, so what you're saying is culture doesn't matter as long as you have talent? No talented team has ever imploded, those teams are always talent deficient?
- gcomella34

I can't think of the last talented team to implode, so yea.

"Everything is better when you are winning"

Old news.. Lehner maintenance day
- 51_Killer

Fun article. Glad to see John Scott is doing well.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/s...ting-debut-gone-hollywood

He's only played 70 games once in his career, and never played more

29
25
38
64
69
70
53
18 (this year)
- jcragcrumple

Those first three are a result of splitting time with the AHL affiliate


64,69,70,53 and 18/25

He'd still be our 2nd best d-man and literally the only one who can play defence.

Edit: that 53 game season was the one where he had mumps

didnt the one world series red sox team drink beer and eat fried chicken before games

maybe thats the culture we need
- robz228

Wade. Boggs.

I can't think of the last talented team to implode, so yea.

"Everything is better when you are winning"
- ImThatGuy

Are we talking only hockey?

Depth wins championships

That's why Chicago didn't get out of the first round last year
- Stripes77

Well of course, but that has no direct link to AHL time.

Chicago has just drafted extremely well and gotten very lucky.

didnt the one world series red sox team drink beer and eat fried chicken before games

maybe thats the culture we need
- robz228

Yeah, the year they COLLAPSED and missed the playoffs. That actually helps PROVE the culture and talent.

Ok, so what you're saying is culture doesn't matter as long as you have talent? No talented team has ever imploded, those teams are always talent deficient?
- gcomella34

I think something can get in a team's head, a la San Jose melting down in game 7 against the Kings. But no, i think culture is to sports terminology what synergy is to business. It's a meaningless buzzword associated with teams who are good. Have you ever heard of a team doing really well and someone says they have a terrible culture? of course not, because they're winning

Culture = Talent = Depth = Wins

Well of course, but that has no direct link to AHL time.

Chicago has just drafted extremely well and gotten very lucky.
- ImThatGuy

I literally said how most of Pittsburgh spent significant time in the AHL

Considering that's where Botterill came from he has fully bought in to the idea that you need to develop talent in the AHL.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's wrong

I think something can get in a team's head, a la San Jose melting down in game 7 against the Kings. But no, i think culture is to sports terminology what synergy is to business. It's a meaningless buzzword associated with teams who are good. Have you ever heard of a team doing really well and someone says they have a terrible culture? of course not, because they're winning

Culture = Talent = Depth = Wins
- jcragcrumple

Off the top of my head Dry Island/Philly comes to mind. They went to the finals that year