When Hextall took over after the 13-14 season the roster included current players 28-14-93-17-24-12-47. Beyond that they had Hartnell, Streit, the Schenn brothers, Vinny, Timonen, Coburn, Grossmann, Gustafsson, Hall, McGinn, Rinaldo, Rosehill, VDV, Mason, Emergy, and the contract of Pronger.

He had said when he took over he was going to build from withing. Serious question to those who want to give their opinion, looking at the roster then and hearing him say he was building from within, at what point did you expect them to be a consistent playoff team and at what point a cup contender? Esp knowing the NHL isn't the NFL or NBA where people are drafted and play immediately. just curious.
- nastyflyergirl

I look at is more of wanting to see a steady progression moving forward as a team and building. Unfortunately to this point they are not doing that and have recently been moving backwards. A number of players have been disappointing so far. I'm hoping to see some veterans improve and maybe at some point this season a player like Patrick will take a few steps.

Is that an Iceberg dead ahead?
Yep the Metro division.

I look at is more of wanting to see a steady progression moving forward as a team and building. Unfortunately to this point they are not doing that and have recently been moving backwards. A number of players have been disappointing so far. I'm hoping to see some veterans improve and maybe at some point this season a player like Patrick will take a few steps.
- MJL

This. I think good partners could do a lot for that. What about him with g Jake for a game or 2 ?

The present is bleak hammar, the future is brighter than an infinite amount of suns.
- PLindbergh31

that's what i keep telling myself. AFAIAC, today is another step toward that bright future with morin and martel. i am not expecting them to turn this team around - because that's absurd - but they need to start getting the kids with talent up with the big team asap and stop being saddled with bags of poop like weise and lehtera.

I'm not even trying to prove a point in being right. Seriously asking the question. I think as fans we can be impatient and unrealistic at times because we all are championship deprived. I get it. I get that a vast majority on here has NEVER seen them win a cup. It sucks. All I know is the old way produced good times and good seasons but not a championship. I want to see a team built that will win for years and get that cup. Now time will tell if the picks Hextall has made are the right ones but until we start seeing them in the lineup I am being patient. I don't want to see them hand out any more Vinny contracts to UFAs.
- nastyflyergirl

You have to not only build through the draft, you also have to supplement through free agency and trades. So far, Hextall has drafted well, the system is by many accounts in better shape then it has been in a long time. (Still think they lack a bonifide stud offensively). Anyway many of the transactions Hextall has made in free agency, and the trade market have been flat out awful. Signing Wiese to that contract was absolutely asinine. The goaltending carousel continues. One journeyman after another. The Umberger/Hartnell trade was a fiasco. The early returns on this Schenn trade look dismal. I think right now you are another bad ten days away from a coaching change.

Football players at skill positions tend to come in instantly the rest are usually rotation players. With the exceptions of the high end guys of course. It is different but not as far off as you seem to be implying imo. A 53 man roster is extremely difficult to construct. Would Arizona for instance be enticed (since they're the browns of the nhl) by a high end prospect middle grade prospect and 2 first rounders for a top 3 pick assuming they get 1?
- Tfaehner

I honestly feel as tho a 23 man roster with a hard cap is harder to construct than a 53 man roster where you can cut players. make a mistake with a NHL contract and you can be (frank)ed a bit. Obviously its very important to draft well in the NHL but any way you slice it the majority of players drafted take time to develop enough to make it to the NHL.

I give Roseman MAJOR props for fixing the ship Chip and the end of the Andy era sunk/started to sink. getting that QB was HUGE. Having that QB on a rookie deal is a great luxury

Time for...

Giroux-Coots-TK
Martel-Patrick-Jake
Weal Filp Simmer
Raffl Laughton leier

Provorov hagg
Ghost manning
Morin sanheim

You have to not only build through the draft, you also have to supplement through free agency and trades. So far, Hextall has drafted well, the system is by many accounts in better shape then it has been in a long time. (Still think they lack a bonifide stud offensively). Anyway many of the transactions Hextall has made in free agency, and the trade market have been flat out awful. Signing Wiese to that contract was absolutely asinine. The goaltending carousel continues. One journeyman after another. The Umberger/Hartnell trade was a fiasco. The early returns on this Schenn trade look dismal. I think right now you are another bad ten days away from a coaching change.
- PLindbergh31

I think at this stage if a change was made it would be during Xmas break so new coach could get a few practices

This. I think good partners could do a lot for that. What about him with g Jake for a game or 2 ?
- Tfaehner

I'd rather move Jake down to Patrick's line and keep Giroux and Couturier together. However I can't guarantee that one or the other is better.

I look at is more of wanting to see a steady progression moving forward as a team and building. Unfortunately to this point they are not doing that and have recently been moving backwards. A number of players have been disappointing so far. I'm hoping to see some veterans improve and maybe at some point this season a player like Patrick will take a few steps.
- MJL

I'm disappointed in Simmonds. to a lesser degree but still disappointed with Gudas, Filppula and Weiss. Didn't expect much from Lehtera as I realized why he is here. I can't be surprised by the ups and downs of Sanheim, TK, Hagg and Patrick.

the pluses have been the bounce back seasons for Giroux and Jake and the step up from Coots. Provorov is just Provorov. I've liked Hagg's play.

missed that, who kicked his ass?
- nastyflyergirl

Deslaurieu, or however you spell his name, from Montreal.

No doubt. The effort last night was appalling in my opinion.
- MJL

Who does the lack of effort fall on?
Millionaires or the coach not getting effort from millionaires?

You have to not only build through the draft, you also have to supplement through free agency and trades. So far, Hextall has drafted well, the system is by many accounts in better shape then it has been in a long time. (Still think they lack a bonifide stud offensively). Anyway many of the transactions Hextall has made in free agency, and the trade market have been flat out awful. Signing Wiese to that contract was absolutely asinine. The goaltending carousel continues. One journeyman after another. The Umberger/Hartnell trade was a fiasco. The early returns on this Schenn trade look dismal. I think right now you are another bad ten days away from a coaching change.
- PLindbergh31

I agree that you have to do more than just build thru the draft and the signings have not worked out well with Weiss as you mentioned but I still believe you start first with building within. I still have no issue with the Hartnell trade outside of wanting a better draft pick back because I still believe that was about unloading Hartnell's contract. I liked Schenn. I didn't want to see him moved but do you really pass up on 2 firsts for him based on his play here? Either way I hold back opinions on that until I see Frost and what they do with this year's pick.

hey, if they keep this up they will be sellers and get another top pick which should make some happy

Also a good goalie can make a decent team look amazing if Carter Hart is as good as he is expected to be he is going to be a major factor in why this team is a contender in the future.
- FreshFlyer

all we can do is pray and hope that turns out to be true. for now, i am beginning to really regret the bryz/bob disaster.

When Hextall took over after the 13-14 season the roster included current players 28-14-93-17-24-12-47. Beyond that they had Hartnell, Streit, the Schenn brothers, Vinny, Timonen, Coburn, Grossmann, Gustafsson, Hall, McGinn, Rinaldo, Rosehill, VDV, Mason, Emergy, and the contract of Pronger.

He had said when he took over he was going to build from withing. Serious question to those who want to give their opinion, looking at the roster then and hearing him say he was building from within, at what point did you expect them to be a consistent playoff team and at what point a cup contender? Esp knowing the NHL isn't the NFL or NBA where people are drafted and play immediately. just curious.
- nastyflyergirl

My expectations were:
Bubble team: 14-15 thru 17-18
Solid playoff team: 18-19 thru 19-20
Legit contender: 20-21

My biggest concern is with the coach, not the rebuild. I don't think Hakstol is the guy you win with. They can keep him for the rest of the season, but unless he really gets them playing hard and with a purpose game in and game out, they need to replace him with an experienced NHL head coach for 18-19

I'm disappointed in Simmonds. to a lesser degree but still disappointed with Gudas, Filppula and Weiss. Didn't expect much from Lehtera as I realized why he is here. I can't be surprised by the ups and downs of Sanheim, TK, Hagg and Patrick.

the pluses have been the bounce back seasons for Giroux and Jake and the step up from Coots. Provorov is just Provorov. I've liked Hagg's play.
- nastyflyergirl

Simmonds has been the biggest disappointment overall after a hot start. I fully expect him to pick it up. I really like Filppula's game away from the puck but we need to count on him for offense. Weal has been a disappointment also. He clearly hasn't been the same player he was last season. Hopefully he gets back to that. Love Voracek's offensive production but he has been horrendous away from the puck.

Who does the lack of effort fall on?
Millionaires or the coach not getting effort from millionaires?
- Konalover

Millionaires, without a doubt.

See here is where I disagree. A good, confident coach would sit down with Simmonds in his office and say "Wayne, I love ya buddy, you're a (frank)ing warrior out there, but you're hurting right now. I need you at 100%. I'm gonna scratch you for a couple of games. Yeah, I know, you want to play and aren't happy about this, but I need a healthy Wayne Simmonds out there. It's best for you and it's best for the team so rest up and get well.

And, in regards to Jake, no, you do bench a guy for stuff like that. Maybe not a whole period, but at least for a shift or 2. If you don't think coaches like Babcock, Hitchcock, Quennville or Lavi would do that, you haven't been watching those guys coach. Yeah, it may be a leadership thing, but the coach has to send a message now and then and he's not doing well in that dept.
- BiggE

HA...don't you know coaches can't talk to them cause they are millionaires.
Nor can they do anything to discipline in game cause they only have the players to play certain spots and nothing can change in game.

Deslaurieu, or however you spell his name, from Montreal.
- jmatchett383

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWx34chaHaE

Simmonds has been the biggest disappointment overall after a hot start. I fully expect him to pick it up. I really like Filppula's game away from the puck but we need to count on him for offense. Weal has been a disappointment also. He's clearly hasn't been the same player he was last season. Hopefully he gets back to that. Love Voracek's offensive production but he has been horrendous away from the puck.
- MJL

If we didn't sign Weal and he signed anywhere else he would have 20 points by now. Poor us!

My expectations were:
Bubble team: 14-15 thru 17-18
Solid playoff team: 18-19 thru 19-20
Legit contender: 20-21

My biggest concern is with the coach, not the rebuild. I don't think Hakstol is the guy you win with. They can keep him for the rest of the season, but unless he really gets them playing hard and with a purpose game in and game out, they need to replace him with an experienced NHL head coach for 18-19
- BiggE

Is it coincidence that he leave ND...and with basically same players new coach steps in and wins it all? Chicken or Egg?

If we didn't sign Weal and he signed anywhere else he would have 20 points by now. Poor us!
- Konalover

Of course he would because another better coach would have him sufficiently motivated to play.

I agree that you have to do more than just build thru the draft and the signings have not worked out well with Weiss as you mentioned but I still believe you start first with building within. I still have no issue with the Hartnell trade outside of wanting a better draft pick back because I still believe that was about unloading Hartnell's contract. I liked Schenn. I didn't want to see him moved but do you really pass up on 2 firsts for him based on his play here? Either way I hold back opinions on that until I see Frost and what they do with this year's pick.

hey, if they keep this up they will be sellers and get another top pick which should make some happy
- nastyflyergirl

If we can't figure out how to be an average team at the very minimum under hasktol I would rather be sellers and get a high pick in a stacked draft. We fire hasktol. We sell off veterans who aren't in the future plans for any round pick we can get. We utilize our now top 5 pick plus all these other picks we now have to get dahlin and some other guys. Dahlin comes into the nhl immediately giving us the ability to sell one of our d prospects for a forward or goalie. Yes that's my fantasy goal if we can't be good

Question for the CBA nerds, Alt had to be waived to be sent down at the beginning of the season. Why not the last 2 times he was up and down?

Question for the CBA nerds, Alt had to be waived to be sent down at the beginning of the season. Why not the last 2 times he was up and down?
- nastyflyergirl

He did have to be waived to be sent back down.