Toews career zone starts: O-Zone 59.4% D-Zone 40.6%. Look at that defensive mother(frank)er.

Nonsense! He was 2nd overall! He needs to be the bestest!
- Wetbandit1

Wouldn't he just have to be the 2nd bestest?

Toews career zone starts: O-Zone 59.4% D-Zone 40.6%. Look at that defensive mother(frank)er.
- Wetbandit1

if i knew about the other thread would not have brought any of this up

Wouldn't he just have to be the 2nd bestest?
- Atomic Wedgie

First forward taken.

if i knew about the other thread would not have brought any of this up
- Sabresfan-365

Isn’t 40% pretty high?

If there are 3 zone start possibilities, 40% would likely be the majority

Do you watch hockey?
- Matthews_Auston

Inside joke, apparently like a Vanek slapshot over you head into the top shelf where Momma hides the cookies.
Next time, don’t show your ignorance so blatantly, it reflects poorly on yo7.

Isn’t 40% pretty high?

If there are 3 zone start possibilities, 40% would likely be the majority
- sbroads24

oh i didnt even see that. yeah that would mean he's taken like 0 neutral zone draws

Isn’t 40% pretty high?

If there are 3 zone start possibilities, 40% would likely be the majority
- sbroads24

5v5 since 09-10

o-zone: 36.16%
n-zone: 39.13%
d-zone: 24.71%

if i knew about the other thread would not have brought any of this up
- Sabresfan-365

Toews finished even in giveaways and takeaways with 37 each last year and started 55.4% in the O-Zone and STILL finished 5th in Selke voting. If that's not overrated I don't know what is.

ROR was +31 last year, 58 takeaways and 27 giveaways and started 54.1% in the D-Zone and finished 11th.



Toews career in 737 games, 588 takeaways to 263 giveaways, and 59.4% O-Zone to 40.6% D-Zone.

ROR 590 games, 578 takeaways to 221 giveaways, and 54.3% D-Zone to 45.7% O-Zone.

Toews finished even in giveaways and takeaways with 37 each last year and started 55.4% in the O-Zone and STILL finished 5th in Selke voting. If that's not overrated I don't know what is.

ROR was +31 last year, 58 takeaways and 27 giveaways and started 54.1% in the D-Zone and finished 11th.



Toews career in 737 games, 588 takeaways to 263 giveaways, and 59.4% O-Zone to 40.6% D-Zone.

ROR 590 games, 578 takeaways to 221 giveaways, and 54.3% D-Zone to 45.7% O-Zone.
- Wetbandit1

stop using hockeyreference and include neutral zone

Isn’t 40% pretty high?

If there are 3 zone start possibilities, 40% would likely be the majority
- sbroads24

Depends on the site. Hockey reference uses O and D zones only, no neutral zone, because let's be honest just outside your zone is a defensive faceoff.

stop using hockeyreference and include neutral zone

- Sabresfan-365

Corsica is still slow as (frank).

Plus, 5 feet outside your zone is a defensive faceoff.

And it treats everyone equally. It's not like it's giving one guy more than another.

5v5 since 09-10

o-zone: 36.16%
n-zone: 39.13%
d-zone: 24.71%
- Sabresfan-365

Ideally it would say which side of center ice they're taken. Because it makes a big difference.

Corsica is still slow as (frank).

Plus, 5 feet outside your zone is a defensive faceoff.

And it treats everyone equally. It's not like it's giving one guy more than another.
- Wetbandit1

does it actually say that's how it's being calculated? and what about centre ice faceoffs?

Regardless, even if you consider it a defensive faceoff (i don't personally) taking the draw outside the zone and losing it is less likely to result in sustained possession in the o-zone for the other team than if it were taken at either faceoff circle.

Ideally it would say which side of center ice they're taken. Because it makes a big difference.
- Wetbandit1

Agreed, it still illustrates the point you were making to gerbe but i prefer it split like this

Agreed, it still illustrates the point you were making to gerbe but i prefer it split like this
- Sabresfan-365

Ok then, throw out the zone starts, he's got 10 less takeaways in 147 less games than Toews. Isn't that why Datsyuk was always considered amazing? That's what they always showed when he won the Selkes.

He's just not fortunate enough to win 3 Cups and play in Chicago.

Any chance we can send Jack and Risto down to the big club in Roch...so they can experience some winning?

if i knew about the other thread would not have brought any of this up
- Sabresfan-365

Pollution.

Baloney sliced thin.

Ok then, throw out the zone starts, he's got 10 less takeaways in 147 less games than Toews. Isn't that why Datsyuk was always considered amazing? That's what they always showed when he won the Selkes.

He's just not fortunate enough to win 3 Cups and play in Chicago.
- Wetbandit1

I don’t think there is a huge difference between O’Reilly and Toews, besides Toews being a much better goal scorer at Oreilly’s age.

Both are over rated, and niether compare to Patrice Bergeron or Datsyuk in terms of defensive forwards

Toews finished even in giveaways and takeaways with 37 each last year and started 55.4% in the O-Zone and STILL finished 5th in Selke voting. If that's not overrated I don't know what is.

ROR was +31 last year, 58 takeaways and 27 giveaways and started 54.1% in the D-Zone and finished 11th.



Toews career in 737 games, 588 takeaways to 263 giveaways, and 59.4% O-Zone to 40.6% D-Zone.

ROR 590 games, 578 takeaways to 221 giveaways, and 54.3% D-Zone to 45.7% O-Zone.
- Wetbandit1

O’Reilly is so underrated on here it’s ridiculous

And I haven’t seen any of his detractors acknowledge how Jack is freed up so much more offensively bc ROR is taking on such a heavy defensive workload

Anyone who thinks that doesn’t “make a difference” is clueless!

5v5 since 09-10

o-zone: 36.16%
n-zone: 39.13%
d-zone: 24.71%
- Sabresfan-365

And O’Reilly’s numbers please?

I don’t think there is a huge difference between O’Reilly and Toews, besides Toews being a much better goal scorer at Oreilly’s age.

Both are over rated, and niether compare to Patrice Bergeron or Datsyuk in terms of defensive forwards
- sbroads24

ROR is torching Bergeron this year.

I know he’s not playing, but if Kane and Bogo get painted with the injury brush, so does Bergeron.

I don’t get why ROR is taking as much heat on here as I have read. There are probably 20+ players who should be targeted before him, imho.

I recall that he was brought in as a 2 way center who could play against the oppositions top line to free Jack from that burden. His roll was that of support personnel, not ever thought to be “the man”, yet he pulls all the D assignments. He ain’t the problem.

He also isn’t the leader of the team. Though he along with other seasoned Vets who were counted on to steer the ship have failed miserably. He isn’t the leader that was expected.

O’Reilly is so underrated on here it’s ridiculous

And I haven’t seen any of his detractors acknowledge how Jack is freed up so much more offensively bc ROR is taking on such a heavy defensive workload

Anyone who thinks that doesn’t “make a difference” is clueless!
- jdfitz77

“Defensive workload” is an over rated term in hockey.

You realize he’s on the ice to produce offense first, like his “defensive responsibility” isn’t to sit in his zone for a minute and a half. It’s to play offense

ROR is torching Bergeron this year.

I know he’s not playing, but if Kane and Bogo get painted with the injury brush, so does Bergeron.
- Der Kaiser

Bergeron has 12 points in 14 games. How is he torching him?

And hasn’t O’Reilly missed like 10-15 games each of the last few years?