I really thought we had a chance to win yesterday but we just couldn't capitalize on many of the great chances we had. It would be great to have a pure sniper or player like Gaudreau on the team

They scratched Umberger or put him plenty on 4th line when it was clear by middle of 1st year back that he was a shell of the player he once was. Then he was bought out with a year left on his contract.

True, and he was the cost of moving Hartnell's contract. I have no problem with the deal or how they dealt with him.

Lecavalier was tried many different places in the lineup, then sent to scratched or 4th line realm.

My only gripe, was that they tried for too long, but it's a small quibble. Kudos to Hextall for unloading him and actually getting some quality in return.

MacDonald got dispatched to the Phantoms for three quarters of 2015-16 season.
My biggest gripe with Mac is that gave him too much term and a little too much money. I would have let him walk. However, this is on Holmgren, not Hextall.


Luke Schenn became a periodic healthy scratch in year two, a regular healthy scrtach after Gudas was acquired.

The actual trade for Schenn is what bothered me, much more than his usage. I believed it was a bad deal at the time and it's even worse now. At the very least Holmgren should have insisted on a 2nd round pick being thrown in, or he shouldn't of made the deal.

Weise was scratched quite a few times last year and once this season.

I can live with Weise in limited minutes on the 4th line if need be. It's using him in the top 9 and giving him any pp time that I don't like.

Lehterä has been scratched plenty.

Amen. And he was simply the cost of landing an additional 1st. No matter how well B., Schenn is playing right now, it's too soon to judge this deal.

Matt Read has become a spare part and is bound to be waived and sent back to the Phantoms again sooner or later.
- bmeltzer

Probably should have happened by mid season last year, but it's really not a big deal.

I really thought we had a chance to win yesterday but we just couldn't capitalize on many of the great chances we had. It would be great to have a pure sniper or player like Gaudreau on the team
- 2Real

I agree. It seems to team adheres a little too religiously to the "200 foot player" mentality when drafting and considering player moves in general.

Sometimes you need that guy who plays defense by pinning the other team in their own zone raining shot after shot..

I agree. It seems to team adheres a little too religiously to the "200 foot player" mentality when drafting and considering player moves in general.

Sometimes you need that guy who plays defense by pinning the other team in their own zone raining shot after shot..
- MBFlyerfan

I think no matter where the best player in the coming draft is for that we should trade up/down to get him. It's really the glaring hole we have right now. So many chances yesterday had me screaming

Not sure how Hextall is giving Weise too much rope. Unless you believe that he is demanding Hak play him, which I don't believe for a second. The coach makes the lineups. With Weal injured and Read pretty much shot, he doesn't have much choice but to dress him right now. Where I disagree with Hak is in his usage. IMO, Weise should be strictly on the 4th line and getting no more than 8 minutes or so of ice time per game. He should be avoided at all costs on special teams too.
- BiggE

I personally think that Raffl is a better player than Weise and I'd like to see those two swap places. I understand using Weise with Weal out on the PP as a physical presence, but I much rather see them switch up personnel usage and give Sanheim some PP time using two defenseman.

The Flyers have at least one player who is driving their offense but is a liability away from the puck. Voracek is the team's leading scorer whose defensive breakdowns have cost the team numerous times this season. There is no reason for a top player not to be responsible defensively. I think there should be an expectation of every player to play well away from the puck and not one single player given a pass on that regardless of how many points or goals he scores. A coach has limited tools, one only to use against a player who comes up short defensively. That can be biting off your nose to spite your face. Better off having the team leadership group handle that.


Flyers have drafted players like Gostisbehere, Konecny, Martel and others that aren't exactly known as 2 way forwards. When I look at the Flyers approach, I see balance.

I think the issue with Weise's ice time has mostly been that there's always two or three guys also deserving of some pine. Read, Lehtera, Manning when we're healthy, a rookie needing a wakeup (classic Flyers), etc. Our fourth line has been real good, and we weren't gonna bring up someone from the A just to stunt them. That leaves Weise on the third with guys we'd like to see playing with better players. PP2 time is certainly... An experiment? I guess? I was appalled seeing it last night as well, but it's not like we didn't need a shakeup and Simmer was on PP1 with da boys. His 'sandpaper' and 'intangibles' are much more appealing when he's not taking penalties negating flyers scoring chances. Hopefully he doesn't last long there. With Vecchione looking as good as he does I can see Hexy feeling some heat considering we've actually been playing pretty well. Not a bad idea to get the first line some secondary scoring up if we have it, who knows how long they'll be red hot.

The Flyers have at least one player who is driving their offense but is a liability away from the puck. Voracek is the team's leading scorer whose defensive breakdowns have cost the team numerous times this season. There is no reason for a top player not to be responsible defensively. I think there should be an expectation of every player to play well away from the puck and not one single player given a pass on that regardless of how many points or goals he scores. A coach has limited tools, one only to use against a player who comes up short defensively. That can be biting off your nose to spite your face. Better off having the team leadership group handle that.


Flyers have drafted players like Gostisbehere, Konecny, Martel and others that aren't exactly known as 2 way forwards. When I look at the Flyers approach, I see balance.
- MJL

Not one of these players you mentioned I would call a pure sniper. Not even close. But I get your point. Ill sour on Konecny fast if he doesn't actually start producing at some point.

I personally think that Raffl is a better player than Weise and I'd like to see those two swap places. I understand using Weise with Weal out on the PP as a physical presence, but I much rather see them switch up personnel usage and give Sanheim some PP time using two defenseman.
- MJL

At least when Raffl is not scoring....like the last 40 or so games....he does a lot of little thinks that make him useful. He never seems to do things detrimental to the team. Not sure how that projects for his role going forward but I would take him over Weise any day.

We should be the ones thanking you, Bill! As hockey coverage has transitioned from traditional print media outlets (and their associated websites) to blog-focused coverage, the one constant has been your absolutely stellar coverage of the Flyers. As I have stated ad nauseam, there is not a more balanced, knowledgeable, or passionate writer of all things Flyers out there than you! For most of us (certainly me), you are the go to authority on the Flyers. Enjoy spending Thanksgiving and some extra time with your family - you deserve it!

I really thought we had a chance to win yesterday but we just couldn't capitalize on many of the great chances we had. It would be great to have a pure sniper or player like Gaudreau on the team
- 2Real

There was absolutely no way they should have lost that game yesterday. Finding ways to lose games are something bad teams do.

There was absolutely no way they should have lost that game yesterday. Finding ways to lose games are something bad teams do.
- landros 2

And I put that on the leadership group and veterans. They are the ones who need to get it straightened out. This team plays scared with a lead.

We should be the ones thanking you, Bill! As hockey coverage has transitioned from traditional print media outlets (and their associated websites) to blog-focused coverage, the one constant has been your absolutely stellar coverage of the Flyers. As I have stated ad nauseam, there is not a more balanced, knowledgeable, or passionate writer of all things Flyers out there than you! For most of us (certainly me), you are the go to authority on the Flyers. Enjoy spending Thanksgiving and some extra time with your family - you deserve it!
- BOSS_TWEED

Pretty much perfect.
For Flyers and ProWrestling he is a gift.

I personally think that Raffl is a better player than Weise and I'd like to see those two swap places. I understand using Weise with Weal out on the PP as a physical presence, but I much rather see them switch up personnel usage and give Sanheim some PP time using two defenseman.
- MJL

Yup, especially since Weise really doesn't add much of a physical presence even though he has decent size. With Weal out, I'd rather see them just go with Filppula, Patrick and Konecny with Provorov and Sanheim on the points. Filppula can get in front of the net if need be and they can also create openings with rapid puck movement as all 5 of these guys have good skills.

Not one of these players you mentioned I would call a pure sniper. Not even close. But I get your point. Ill sour on Konecny fast if he doesn't actually start producing at some point.
- MBFlyerfan

You're right, I agree but they're offensive players. I also think that the Flyers preference for 200 foot players is position related. They definitely prefer Centers with two way games.

I agree. It seems to team adheres a little too religiously to the "200 foot player" mentality when drafting and considering player moves in general.

Sometimes you need that guy who plays defense by pinning the other team in their own zone raining shot after shot..
- MBFlyerfan

Agreed and in every era that the FLyers have been successful they've had a guy or 2 that could do that.

mid to late 70's: Macleish and Leach

mid 80s: Kerr and Propp

mid 90s: Leclair and Lindros

03-04: Roenick and still, to some extent, Leclair.

07-08 through 2011: Carter and Briere

You can't win a cup just by being defensively responsible or having all of your best offensive players be pass first type of players. You need a sniper or 2.

Vecchione is deserving of a call up for sure. If Weal is out long-term, Martel could also be a worthy call up. Something like this:

Giroux-Couts-Voracek
Martel-Patrick-Simmonds
Filpulla-Vecchione-Konecny
Raffl-Laughton-Leier

That's a change in parameters of what was said. Your points relate mostly to whether the moves should've been made in the first place. That's a different discussion. Some of the moves weren't even made by Hextall.
- MJL

Parameters, as you called it, didn't change. If you cared to read and understand instead of looking to criticize, you'd see that.

I agreed with VCL, Weise, Lehtera, and Read receiving too much ice time. Read (last year) being the only player who was just not effective any longer and ran his course. VCL, Weise, and Lehtera were/are not helping the team and are given too much playing time, some of it valuable.

Others brought up, but not by me, I believe didn't fit into the argument. They were recipients of either a bad contract (AMac) or a bad trade (LSchenn).

We should be the ones thanking you, Bill! As hockey coverage has transitioned from traditional print media outlets (and their associated websites) to blog-focused coverage, the one constant has been your absolutely stellar coverage of the Flyers. As I have stated ad nauseam, there is not a more balanced, knowledgeable, or passionate writer of all things Flyers out there than you! For most of us (certainly me), you are the go to authority on the Flyers. Enjoy spending Thanksgiving and some extra time with your family - you deserve it!
- BOSS_TWEED

DILLY DILLY

DILLY DILLY
- KINGKENZO

I agree. It seems to team adheres a little too religiously to the "200 foot player" mentality when drafting and considering player moves in general.

Sometimes you need that guy who plays defense by pinning the other team in their own zone raining shot after shot..
- MBFlyerfan

Absolutely.

Nothing wrong with guys who can play a well rounded game. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with who solely excels at burying the puck in the back of the net even if he lacks that defensive element.

Parameters, as you called it, didn't change. If you cared to read and understand instead of looking to criticize, you'd see that.

I agreed with VCL, Weise, Lehtera, and Read receiving too much ice time. Read (last year) being the only player who was just not effective any longer and ran his course. VCL, Weise, and Lehtera were/are not helping the team and are given too much playing time, some of it valuable.

Others brought up, but not by me, I believe didn't fit into the argument. They were recipients of either a bad contract (AMac) or a bad trade (LSchenn).
- 77rams

This was the original comment.

"It really does bother me that the Flyers feel the need to validate signings and trades by overplaying guys rather than just admitting they made a mistake"

You discussed whether the moves should've been made in the first place which is a different discussion that the team overplaying players to validate the moves, which was proven to be a false narrative. It's not criticism, it's just a fact.

Fantastic stuff as always Bill, thanks!

Re the advance stat info you are looking for:

My guess, is that all of these things are already being tracked, at least to some degree, by the team. This is why player usage may not always correspond to what Corsi or Fenwick tells us. These other stats, regular scoring stats and, of course, the eye test is what will determine a players usage. IMO, Hagg is doing a solid job on the top pair with Provorov and should remain there when AMac returns. I like the physical element that he has added to the pairing and the way he uses his strength and reach to his advantage while also staying out of the penalty box.

FWIW, here are my positives/negatives at the quarter pole:

POSITIVES:

Obviously the top line, and especially Couturier breakthrough offensively. I have always been a Couturier supporter, so it's just that much more gratifying to see!

The goaltending, for the most part, has been solid and good enough to win on most nights. That's the most you can ask for from this tandem

Ivan Provorov. He is doing a phenomenal job, it's hard to believe he's only 20 years old

Andrew MacDonald coming out and playing the best he has since he's been in Philly. Good for him!

Nolan Patrick looking fully healthy and having perhaps his strongest game of the season last night. On a team desperately looking for secondary scoring, this is really important.

Sanheim's consistent improvement as the season has gone on and the relatively steady and solid play of Manning are both pluses.

NEGATIVES

Dear lord, this team needs to find secondary scoring and fast if they want to stay in the playoff hunt. Konecny is really pressing, and, if Weal was healthy, I'd be calling for him to sit for a game. He needs to relax and just play his game.

After getting off to quick starts, both Simmonds and Filppula have been disappointing. Filppula hasn't been terrible, but he is not contributing much right now. Simmonds had a stretch where he just looked awful over the last 3-4 weeks. He looked better against the Jets and so-so yesterday. Either way, they need more from him and they need it fast.

The second team pp, again after a decent start, has once again gone dry. Perhaps it's time to try 2 Dmen and start giving Sanheim a look? Hopefully a healthy Nolan Patrick can jump start this unit. On a side note, Dale Weise should never be on the pp. More on him later.

Ghost started the season playing very well, but his play has really tailed off the last few weeks. He needs to play better, and he needs to learn from his loss of control yesterday and keep his cool from here on in.

Radko GUdas has pretty much been the worst Dman on this team all season. When you now factor in his upcoming suspension and his general stupidity, well, lets just say I wouldn't be upset to see him go.

Lehtera and Weise. Lehtera has actually been the better of the 2. He can at least win a faceoff and make a play once in a while, but his overall lack of speed is not helping a team that can use all the speed they can get. Weise, OTOH, is basically just a body that can skate fairly well. I just don't see him bringing anything else to the table. Right now, at LHV, I don't know what else Vecchione needs to still "develop". But if it was up to me, REad would be waived, Weise would be scratched and Filppula would be moved to wing to get Vecchione into the lineup. If they need to make room for a 7th Dman, they can just waive Weise. He won't be missed.

NEITHER POSITIVE or NEGATIVE

Coaching: The coaching has been ok. Kudos for putting Coots on the top line and for moving G to wing. Could be doing a a bit better job of juggling the lines to get more secondary scoring and I just don't get what he sees in Dale Weise. Overall I'll reserve judgement on the coaching for now.
- BiggE

Very nice write up BiggE, you pretty much nailed it. The key point is Simmonds is skating in quick sand and his reaction to the play is way off. Weise should not be on the team period and the only thing I have to disagree on is coaching being okay. Yes the Couturier move was bold and outstanding and the coaches challenge recenty was great, however overall his line matching and line juggling is really bad.

They scratched Umberger or put him plenty on 4th line when it was clear by middle of 1st year back that he was a shell of the player he once was. Then he was bought out with a year left on his contract.

Lecavalier was tried many different places in the lineup, then sent to scratched or 4th line realm.

MacDonald got dispatched to the Phantoms for three quarters of 2015-16 season.

Luke Schenn became a periodic healthy scratch in year two, a regular healthy scrtach after Gudas was acquired.

Weise was scratched quite a few times last year and once this season.


Point well take Bill, but Weise, Read need to be next. Also Gudas should be turfed, he hurts the team with his reputation alone, you are never going to catch a break with him on the back end. He is good but he is also brain dead.
Lehterä has been scratched plenty.

Matt Read has become a spare part and is bound to be waived and sent back to the Phantoms again sooner or later.
- bmeltzer

Very nice write up BiggE, you pretty much nailed it. The key point is Simmonds is skating in quick sand and his reaction to the play is way off. Weise should not be on the team period and the only thing I have to disagree on is coaching being okay. Yes the Couturier move was bold and outstanding and the coaches challenge recenty was great, however overall his line matching and line juggling is really bad.
- joegreif17

Some fans think there is some obvious magical line combination available to solve all of the Flyers issues that Hakstol is just blind to. That's shortsighted.

You criticized Hakstol's matchup against Calgary's top line last game. Why was that a mistake?