Vegas has given Shipachayev permission to find a trade. How about Hagelen, Archibald and a 2nd for his services?
- Dcoms

I know we have to wash some of the salary, but that's too much to give up for an unproven....

Vegas has given Shipachayev permission to find a trade. How about Hagelen, Archibald and a 2nd for his services?
- Dcoms

Seems like a major red flag he can't make the LV roster. Especially for a guy with a pretty expensive 2 year deal.

Did I not just see Toronto teach the Sixers some humility not that long ago? You want to talk about team building. The Raptors have drafted better than any team in pro sports the last few years considering what they have gotten for higher draft picks. Yes the Sixers could be good someday but they are literally the Oilers before they got McDavid. They have had top picks for years for years now and still are bottom 5 in the league.
- Dcoms

Well this is laughably inaccurate. Joel Embiid is the Connor McDavid of the NBA and Simmons baby LeBron. This is the first year they take the court together and our recent first overall is currently injured and needs time. Once they all get time to jell together they’ll be a force and will likely be perennial EC Champs after the LeBron era ends which is the goal.

I don’t know where you’re getting your info that the Raptors have been drafting the best in all pro sports. That’d be the Warriors taking Steph, Klay, and Barns in the mid to late loto and Green in the second. Plenty of teams have drafted on par with the Raptors.

IMO, unless Vegas was willing to retain AT LEAST 50%, I'd be very hesitant. I also would not be willing to give up anything significant, so I don't see what incentive they would require to get that done.

I really wonder what's going on in this situation. He played limited time in the pre-season and has barely sniffed ice during the regular season.

Maybe they realized they didn't need him and are trying to slither out of this.

IMO, unless Vegas was willing to retain AT LEAST 50%, I'd be very hesitant. I also would not be willing to give up anything significant, so I don't see what incentive they would require to get that done.

I really wonder what's going on in this situation. He played limited time in the pre-season and has barely sniffed ice during the regular season.

Maybe they realized they didn't need him and are trying to slither out of this.
- Rinosaur

McKenzie says he has simply been outplayed by the other players on the roster. I have no frame of reference with this guy (never seen him play), but the NHL is MILES ahead of the KHL so it's not hard to believe that a 30 year old guy coming from that league would prove unable to play at this level.

McKenzie says he has simply been outplayed by the other players on the roster. I have no frame of reference with this guy (never seen him play), but the NHL is MILES ahead of the KHL so it's not hard to believe that a 30 year old guy coming from that league would prove unable to play at this level.
- madmike71

Yeah... hard pass. If he stays in the NHL, my guess is you'll see a team like the Rangers or Canucks make a dumb move.

Seems like a major red flag he can't make the LV roster. Especially for a guy with a pretty expensive 2 year deal.
- madmike71

It's not that he can't make the LV team it's that he is one of their few players who is eligible to go to the AHL without waivers. And they have too many dmen right now.

Well this is laughably inaccurate. Joel Embiid is the Connor McDavid of the NBA and Simmons baby LeBron. This is the first year they take the court together and our recent first overall is currently injured and needs time. Once they all get time to jell together they’ll be a force and will likely be perennial EC Champs after the LeBron era ends which is the goal.

I don’t know where you’re getting your info that the Raptors have been drafting the best in all pro sports. That’d be the Warriors taking Steph, Klay, and Barns in the mid to late loto and Green in the second. Plenty of teams have drafted on par with the Raptors.
- Victoro311

Yeah maybe if Embiid could play every game on the schedule without hurting himself he might be the next Greg Oden. And Lebron was better at 16 than Simmons will ever be. The Raptors are top 3 in the east, play 12 guys in their regular rotation and only 3 of them they didn't draft. All without having a top 5 pick.

Yeah maybe if Embiid could play every game on the schedule without hurting himself he might be the next Greg Oden. And Lebron was better at 16 than Simmons will ever be. The Raptors are top 3 in the east, play 12 guys in their regular rotation and only 3 of them they didn't draft. All without having a top 5 pick.
- Dcoms

NBA’s not hockey bro. Top 3 in a very bad East might as well be the eighth seed. You have no legit super star of which you need 3 to win. DeRozen and Lowery are good 3rd options on a team but don’t have the star power to get past anyone. Ross is good but again, you’re missing the backbone of what makes a championship contender. There’s a reason why the pundits were asking if it was time for the Raptors to blow it up and cash in DeRozen for assets this offseason. You act like rotation players are this big accomplishment when drafting. They’re not. Basketball is an extremely individualistic sport. It’s all about acquiring your stars and then rotating the supporting cast with good contracts. The Duncan era Spurs were a good example of this (you wanna talk about good drafting? The Spurs) and the Warriors are following suit.

I don’t really argue about the merits of the Process anymore. It seems like the only people that argue it’s a bad idea anymore are teams that perennially do nothing in the playoffs like Wizards fans and I guess Raptors fans if you’re any indication. If you guys can ever get past a LeBron lead team in the playoffs and win the east, feel free to come back and rub it in my face. The NBA isn’t the NHL. There’s no parity.

McKenzie says he has simply been outplayed by the other players on the roster. I have no frame of reference with this guy (never seen him play), but the NHL is MILES ahead of the KHL so it's not hard to believe that a 30 year old guy coming from that league would prove unable to play at this level.
- madmike71

It seems more like he doesn't fit Vegas' style. They're up tempo and a grinding team. He needs more open space and time to watch the play unfold. Also, one of the reasons he may not be a fit on the north American ice surface?

Back to the game on Tuesday....the one thing that JR has done, that I thought was noticeable against Edmonton, was adding players with size who can skate. We already had Malkin and Dumo. Adding Reaves (though I still don't like what we gave up) and Sheahan gives the Pens two more players with those two characteristics....size and speed.

I'm fairly excited to see how that works against a team like Winnipeg who usually physically dominates us.

Also, Reeves isn't a bad hockey player. I'd like to see him get between 8-12 minutes to help wear the other team down more. I wouldn't say that about a guy who I didn't think could play the game.

Back to the game on Tuesday....the one thing that JR has done, that I thought was noticeable against Edmonton, was adding players with size who can skate. We already had Malkin and Dumo. Adding Reaves (though I still don't like what we gave up) and Sheahan gives the Pens two more players with those two characteristics....size and speed.

I'm fairly excited to see how that works against a team like Winnipeg who usually physically dominates us.

Also, Reeves isn't a bad hockey player. I'd like to see him get between 8-12 minutes to help wear the other team down more. I wouldn't say that about a guy who I didn't think could play the game.
- cranktheradio

I think the 3 minute a game Reaves was getting tough love from Sully. It looked to me like they are working on his game & doing it the hard way by limiting playing time - that's my take anyway. Pens play a pretty different game than the Blues so it was/is probably pretty difficult at times.

Sounding like Trotman will be called up.

Anyone follow Bengtsson or Prow? I thought they were supposed to be some fairly decent prospects, no?
- Rinosaur

Guys like that....people get excited every year over these off the radar signings. Sometimes you get Sheary but they're usually busts. Don't think they deserved as much attention as they got until they proved something as pros, but we don't have many blue chip guys so we need someone besides Sprong to talk about.

I don't watch, just read, but Pros still has trouble staying in the AHL line-up, doubt he amounts to much.

Bengtsson is basically a rookie and putting up alot of points so that's promising, but probably too early for a call-up. Been hoping to find some more info on him myself.

NBA’s not hockey bro. Top 3 in a very bad East might as well be the eighth seed. You have no legit super star of which you need 3 to win. DeRozen and Lowery are good 3rd options on a team but don’t have the star power to get past anyone. Ross is good but again, you’re missing the backbone of what makes a championship contender. There’s a reason why the pundits were asking if it was time for the Raptors to blow it up and cash in DeRozen for assets this offseason. You act like rotation players are this big accomplishment when drafting. They’re not. Basketball is an extremely individualistic sport. It’s all about acquiring your stars and then rotating the supporting cast with good contracts. The Duncan era Spurs were a good example of this (you wanna talk about good drafting? The Spurs) and the Warriors are following suit.

I don’t really argue about the merits of the Process anymore. It seems like the only people that argue it’s a bad idea anymore are teams that perennially do nothing in the playoffs like Wizards fans and I guess Raptors fans if you’re any indication. If you guys can ever get past a LeBron lead team in the playoffs and win the east, feel free to come back and rub it in my face. The NBA isn’t the NHL. There’s no parity.
- Victoro311

Derozan was 5th in scoring last year, higher than Curry and Lebron. That is hardly third option. They will not be breaking their team up. The Americans always hate when the Raptors have a good team, they have been saying that crap since they had Carter. Ross was traded last year for Ibaka. They had a bad playoffs last year but made the conference finals the year before. They needed a guy who can hit 3s and now have one of the best. Add to that a rookie who is a lockdown defender and they are going to have a big year. Clevelands days are numbered that whole team is over 30 and injury prone. You'll see. At least they are better than the Sixers, who haven't had any kind of team since Iverson,

Guys like that....people get excited every year over these off the radar signings. Sometimes you get Sheary but they're usually busts. Don't think they deserved as much attention as they got until they proved something as pros, but we don't have many blue chip guys so we need someone besides Sprong to talk about.

I don't watch, just read, but Pros still has trouble staying in the AHL line-up, doubt he amounts to much.

Bengtsson is basically a rookie and putting up alot of points so that's promising, but probably too early for a call-up. Been hoping to find some more info on him myself.
- Tojo.

Bengsston and Prow are on different levels talent wise. I've seen them both play live. Bengsston has way more talent. If Shultz is out he should get a chance because he's a puck mover.

Derozan was 5th in scoring last year, higher than Curry and Lebron. That is hardly third option. They will not be breaking their team up. The Americans always hate when the Raptors have a good team, they have been saying that crap since they had Carter. Ross was traded last year for Ibaka. They had a bad playoffs last year but made the conference finals the year before. They needed a guy who can hit 3s and now have one of the best. Add to that a rookie who is a lockdown defender and they are going to have a big year. Clevelands days are numbered that whole team is over 30 and injury prone. You'll see. At least they are better than the Sixers, who haven't had any kind of team since Iverson,
- Dcoms

You should really look at DeRozan's efficiency numbers and real +/-.

He has the same issue as Devin Booker: scores a lot, but it usually takes a lot of shots to get there (although he made big strides there last season. He's also an abysmal 3 pt shooter, which plays into his inefficiency and is really really bad trait for a SG to have in a space and pace league.

But the real issue is his real +/-. The Raptors are a good team and they tend to in general lose the point scoring differential when DeRozan is on the court. If the Raptors were bad, that'd be one thing, but that's a huge red flag when you're on a #3 or #4 seed and calls into question whether or not DeRozan is actually a net positive.

You're right about Ross being gone. I always get him and Powell confused because they're both really good wing defenders and play in general the same role except Ross can't shoot. I forgot which one you traded.

Your last point is something teams with no shot at winning an ECF don't understand. Who cares if you're better than the Sixers? That's not an accomplishment. We've been tanking and holding out first round picks for entire seasons for the past 5 years. Making the playoffs regardless of seed literally doesn't matter unless you can actually contend, which the Raptors can't due to lack of high end star power. DeRozan is not that regardless of how many PPG he's averaging (that's like saying Kobe was a star-caliber player his last two seasons in the league because he put up #pointzzzz) and Kyle Lowry, who I've actually always liked a lot, is old at 31 and only has about two more years of high end use left in him.

The Process may not work out. Embiid may die and Fultz may bust, but Simmons is looking like a pretty sure thing and a healthy Embiid proved he was a high end super star when he's on the court as early as November of last season. That's the point of the Process: acquire high end star caliber players by any means possible so that when we finally are ready to make the playoffs we can actually do something with it rather than just lose to LeBron. That means gambling on the best player in the draft despite his health issues. That means missing the playoffs year in and year out for a while. But after sitting through countless seasons of the later Allen Iverson era and the Andre Iguodala era where the Sixers where in the same boat the Raptors are now of making the playoffs every year but having less than zero chance at a title, The Process was the right call. Simply making the playoffs doesn't do it for me anymore. Not in the NBA.

I know we have to wash some of the salary, but that's too much to give up for an unproven....
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Have to agree here, and with the addition of Sheahan already, I just dont see the Pens pursuing another C now until they see what they have with #15

Have to agree here, and with the addition of Sheahan already, I just dont see the Pens pursuing another C now until they see what they have with #15
- MattStrat

Guess they might still want a more offensive -minded center. But I agree, I'd wait. I've been among those wanting a more offensive 3C and copy what Toronto has, but maybe with our wings having Sheahan be the defensive conscience between say Sheary and Sprong will work out. Seemed to be how Detroit used him in his best years.

Guess they might still want a more offensive -minded center. But I agree, I'd wait. I've been among those wanting a more offensive 3C and copy what Toronto has, but maybe with our wings having Sheahan be the defensive conscience between say Sheary and Sprong will work out. Seemed to be how Detroit used him in his best years.
- Tojo.

I agree with this as well...which is why I wouldnt of minded giving up 3 or 4 pieces for Duchene.

I don't think Shipshayev is the answer but I could see the Pens flipping him for Sheehan and a prospect if he came with salary retained. I think Vegas is just looking to move on from him.

Duchene is still the guy to target. Though with Mackinnon's struggles I'd offer Schultz and Sprong to see if Sakic will bite on trading him instead. I want the Cole Harbor connection to happen at some point!

I don't think Shipshayev is the answer but I could see the Pens flipping him for Sheehan and a prospect if he came with salary retained. I think Vegas is just looking to move on from him.

Duchene is still the guy to target. Though with Mackinnon's struggles I'd offer Schultz and Sprong to see if Sakic will bite on trading him instead. I want the Cole Harbor connection to happen at some point!
- MacPatty

Schultz and Sprong for Duchene is insane. Even if Sakic would do that, GMJR would be insane to do this trade.

Schultz and Sprong for Duchene is insane. Even if Sakic would do that, GMJR would be insane to do this trade.
- simethos

Schultz might be a bit much there but I'd have no problems with Sprong being included. If the Pens had Duchene at 3C their top 3 lines would be power. Chances of 3peat rise significantly.

If any of you guys have a subscription to the athletic, Justin Bourne dissected the Pens PP, really solid read.

If any of you guys have a subscription to the athletic, Justin Bourne dissected the Pens PP, really solid read.
- j.boyd919

Need to get on there now that Yohe and Bodner are over there.

Schultz might be a bit much there but I'd have no problems with Sprong being included. If the Pens had Duchene at 3C their top 3 lines would be power. Chances of 3peat rise significantly.
- MattStrat

That depends on the length of Duchene's contract. If he's only signed for one year, and he's all that Pittsburgh is getting, there is no way I'd make that trade. They better be taking Reaves's salary, and giving up draft picks or something.