This draft looks like 2008 and being defense heavy. Lots of 5'11 offensive defenders who are totally not 5'7...TOTALLY NOT. DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT.
- AdamFrench

My point is that if a valuable asset such as Eberle was ever going to be traded, he should have been in a trade involving a Top 4 defender. I don't care whether that trade was this previous offseason or the next. Even if Sekera comes back our defense is alright at best. We need skilled depth defensively, especially if we want have a shot at the Conference Finals.

Also, from a GM perspective, you shouldn't really be banking on a 3-4 month fix. You know your defense at its best is alright, not great, but alright. You have assets on the table that can be used to get skilled depth defensively. So why not go and try to improve the short term and long term approach to this team.

Also, why wouldn't Hamonic/Trouba be targets Chia should have had in mind, especially if you're willing to trade away Eberle. We need solid top 4 options, not prospective top 4 options (such as Nurse/Benning).
- EdmHockeyMan

Okay, great. Let's say he goes out and acquires Hamonic- a guy whose results last year were inferior to Russell's in a number of respects- what then? They wouldn't resign Russell in that event so the team is in exactly the same position of being short one top-4 Dman until Sekera returns. The season is likely exactly where it is now except it's Nurse struggling with the weight of expectations and we're down a 1st and two 2nds. Those are assets which this team absolutely NEEDS to be able to preserve any hope at long term competitive viability.

Great.

You can prefer Hamonic to Russell all you want but don't pretend that his acquisition fixes our current problem or that it doesn't further exacerbate an underlying one.

That's kind of what I mean. The core is fine, but I don't think the supporting cast is in great shape by any stretch.
- BINGO!

as long as they dont get sentimental with some of the Dmen, they can start to flip out guys like Brodie. Hamonic, even Gio when they are a year out of UFA to try to gain some fwd assets.

Okay, great. Let's say he goes out and acquires Hamonic- a guy whose results last year were inferior to Russell's in a number of respects- what then? They wouldn't resign Russell in that event so the team is in exactly the same position of being short one top-4 Dman until Sekera returns. The season is likely exactly where it is now except it's Nurse struggling with the weight of expectations and we're down a 1st and two 2nds. Those are assets which this team absolutely NEEDS to be able to preserve any hope at long term competitive viability.

Great.

You can prefer Hamonic to Russell all you want but don't pretend that his acquisition fixes our current problem or that it doesn't further exacerbate an underlying one.
- MaximumBone

Hamonic makes Pronger look like Danny Syvret

Star Wars buzz? Im already jacked for the last jedi
- DDM-Coga

Nowhere to go but up from #7. The worst Star Wars movie to date.

Nowhere to go but up from #7. The worst Star Wars movie to date.
- Oildrum

this is a bad take....really bad

Force Awakens is possibly 4th. Original trilogy, then Rogue One and Force are pretty equal...not great but not bad.

What about Solo?
- Iggysbff

no trailers yet so not as jacked. Until see Donald Glover wearing a Lando cape....im not getting hot and bothered about it

Okay, great. Let's say he goes out and acquires Hamonic- a guy whose results last year were inferior to Russell's in a number of respects- what then? They wouldn't resign Russell in that event so the team is in exactly the same position of being short one top-4 Dman until Sekera returns. The season is likely exactly where it is now except it's Nurse struggling with the weight of expectations and we're down a 1st and two 2nds. Those are assets which this team absolutely NEEDS to be able to preserve any hope at long term competitive viability.

Great.

You can prefer Hamonic to Russell all you want but don't pretend that his acquisition fixes our current problem or that it doesn't further exacerbate an underlying one.
- MaximumBone

I see what you're trying to say.
To me, I just don't see Russell as a top 4 defender at all, and I think that is where we start to disagree. You have his numbers so you probably see a more analytical version of him, which could definitely value him more, but his style of play is quite worrisome, at least to me. He values going deep into the defensive zone rather than to try and close the gap between an attacker, which to me, is a horrid playing style if left as the static default (great against snipers, terrible against playmakers).

As for Hamonic, it doesn't have to be him per say (he had a down year imo, most likely due to family issues and some injury trouble). Trouba or Barrie could have fulfilled that option and they were both in the market (it so seemed) for a period of time.

Hell, maybe even an Ebs/Russell (extension pending) package could have been discussed if the 1st/2nd were a priority.

this is a bad take....really bad

Force Awakens is possibly 4th. Original trilogy, then Rogue One and Force are pretty equal...not great but not bad.
- DDM-Coga

None of the Star Wars movies are good #LukewarmTakes

None of the Star Wars movies are good #LukewarmTakes
- MaximumBone

None of the Star Wars movies are good #LukewarmTakes
- MaximumBone

You're correct.

You're correct.
- BINGO!

Friends off

Question: How many virgins does it take to watch a Star Wars film?

Answer: All of them.

OK here we go Russell = Hamonic.....

You guys are nuts

I see what you're trying to say.
To me, I just don't see Russell as a top 4 defender and I think that is where we start to disagree. You have his numbers so you probably see a more analytical version of him, which could definitely value him more, but his style of play is quite worrisome, at least to me. He values going deep into the defensive zone rather than to try and close the gap between an attacker, which to me, is a horrid playing style if left as the static default (great against snipers, terrible against playmakers).

As for Hamonic, it doesn't have to be him per say (he had a down year imo, most likely due to family issues and some injury trouble). Trouba or Barrie could have fulfilled that option and they were both in the market (it so seemed) for a period of time.

Hell, maybe even an Ebs/Russell (extension pending) package could have been discussed if the 1st/2nd were a priority.
- EdmHockeyMan

The stats that I use to value Dmen are pretty simple. In his career, he historically has a positive impact on preventing goals against and he has a greater than team average goal share (GF%) in the majority of his seasons.

Visually, he has his flaws- including the backing off and getting outmuscled in the corners- but those flaws are taken with the understanding that the style he's built over the years has led to tangible positive results in more seasons than not (according to stats.hockeyanalysis.com's numbers before they shut down). He may allow a high number of a certain type of chance but overall prevents goals against more effectively than most Dmen.

As for the possibility if those other Dmen, sure but Eberle doesn't even start a conversation for either Barrie or Trouba. Neither team was/is in any form of need of a high scoring winger. Both teams wanted D in return and both were seeking equivalent valued so you'd be looking at moving either Klefbom or Larsson. Nurse++ might've worked but if the fanbases of each team are to be believed then the answer was often a resounding "no".

So once again, the team is hardly further along regardless of how strongly I feel Trouba is on the cusp of being an elite D.

The only answer that I can see making your point is assuming one's plan is to put all our eggs in one basket (this season) and keep Eberle, trade for Hamonic (1st and two 2nds), acquire a guy like Schlemko to cover for Sekera and then be prepared to either trade or see Nurse as our #7 Dman. Gearing up for a short term push at the expense of any form of long term stability.

- DDM-Coga

So I'm gonna die 6 years ago? You'd better find yourself a DeLorean and prepare for child murder.

You're correct.
- BINGO!

The stats that I use to value Dmen are pretty simple. In his career, he historically has a positive impact on preventing goals against and he has a greater than team average goal share (GF%) in the majority of his seasons.

Visually, he has his flaws- including the backing off and getting outmuscled in the corners- but those flaws are taken with the understanding that the style he's built over the years has led to tangible positive results in more seasons than not (according to stats.hockeyanalysis.com's numbers before they shut down). He may allow a high number of a certain type of chance but overall prevents goals against more effectively than most Dmen.

As for the possibility if those other Dmen, sure but Eberle doesn't even start a conversation for either Barrie or Trouba. Neither team was/is in any form of need of a high scoring winger. Both teams wanted D in return and both were seeking equivalent valued so you'd be looking at moving either Klefbom or Larsson. Nurse++ might've worked but if the fanbases of each team are to be believed then the answer was often a resounding "no".

So once again, the team is hardly further along regardless of how strongly I feel Trouba is on the cusp of being an elite D.

The only answer that I can see making your point is assuming one's plan is to put all our eggs in one basket (this season) and keep Eberle, trade for Hamonic (1st and two 2nds), acquire a guy like Schlemko to cover for Sekera and then be prepared to either trade or see Nurse as our #7 Dman. Gearing up for a short term push at the expense of long term stability.
- MaximumBone

I mean trading a first and 2 seconds doesn't really cost you long term stability at all....

The stats that I use to value Dmen are pretty simple. In his career, he historically has a positive impact on preventing goals against and he has a greater than team average goal share (GF%) in the majority of his seasons.

Visually, he has his flaws- including the backing off and getting outmuscled in the corners- but those flaws are taken with the understanding that the style he's built over the years has led to tangible positive results in more seasons than not (according to stats.hockeyanalysis.com's numbers before they shut down). He may allow a high number of a certain type of chance but overall prevents goals against more effectively than most Dmen.

As for the possibility if those other Dmen, sure but Eberle doesn't even start a conversation for either Barrie or Trouba. Neither team was/is in any form of need of a high scoring winger. Both teams wanted D in return and both were seeking equivalent valued so you'd be looking at moving either Klefbom or Larsson. Nurse++ might've worked but if the fanbases of each team are to be believed then the answer was often a resounding "no".

So once again, the team is hardly further along regardless of how strongly I feel Trouba is on the cusp of being an elite D.

The only answer that I can see making your point is assuming one's plan is to put all our eggs in one basket (this season) and keep Eberle, trade for Hamonic (1st and two 2nds), acquire a guy like Schlemko to cover for Sekera and then be prepared to either trade or see Nurse as our #7 Dman. Gearing up for a short term push at the expense of any form of long term stability.
- MaximumBone

Can you post this in 5 posts. Way too much for me to read in one post

I have to think Sekera is only skating so they can see just how badly they should be looking for help

I mean trading a first and 2 seconds doesn't really cost you long term stability at all....
- The-O-G

How does it not? Leaves a pretty gaping hole in potential assets in a time when the Oilers don't really have the assets to throw around.

Just look at the Reinhart trade and how much different this team could be had they just drafted Eriksson-Ek and Carlo (the plan per Stauffer). They'd have a bunch of cheaper assets replacing their aging ones. That's how much one year's worth of a 1st and 2nd can do and how much of a hole can be left without them. At least with Hamonic you'd be getting a tangible NHL player in return, but in 3 or 4 years he's not likely much of an "asset" anymore.

Can you post this in 5 posts. Way too much for me to read in one post
- Lahey

Nope. Tough it out

How does it not? Leaves a pretty gaping hole in potential assets in a time when the Oilers don't really have the assets to throw around.

Just look at the Reinhart trade and how much different this team could be had they just drafted Eriksson-Ek and Carlo (the plan per Stauffer). They'd have a bunch of cheaper assets replacing their aging ones. That's how much one year's worth of a 1st and 2nd can do and how much of a hole can be left without them. At least with Hamonic you'd be getting a tangible NHL player in return, but in 3 or 4 years he's not likely much of an "asset" anymore.
- MaximumBone

Haha well the Reinhart trade was just stupid. Just an awful move. But that's the very extreme of the example. As far as a guy like Hamonic is concerned, he's far more established. The Oilers would get 3 full years of Hamonic plus the realistic ability to recoup a first round pick in 2.5 years at the deadline.

Haha well the Reinhart trade was just stupid. Just an awful move. But that's the very extreme of the example. As far as a guy like Hamonic is concerned, he's far more established. The Oilers would get 3 full years of Hamonic plus the realistic ability to recoup a first round pick in 2.5 years at the deadline.
- The-O-G

That argument of "recouping a return" doesn't really stand in my opinion. Sure you might but any number of things could happen before then. Hamonic could continue his current trend of injuries and be on IR by that time. The condition of his knee could further degrade to the point where he's not worth even a 2nd. Your management could fail to assess whether "right time" to retool is and keep him in an attempt to push for the Cup again as this year is definitely the year (most teams tend to overestimate themselves).

What examples are there of trading significant assets for a guy and then moving him 2.5 years later and recouping most of the assets lost?

Haha well the Reinhart trade was just stupid. Just an awful move. But that's the very extreme of the example. As far as a guy like Hamonic is concerned, he's far more established. The Oilers would get 3 full years of Hamonic plus the realistic ability to recoup a first round pick in 2.5 years at the deadline.
- The-O-G

At the end of the day if we are adding a quality NHLer and it only costs picks it's not really that bad of a deal for us. We are close to a win now mode. Where Talbot was playing his best hockey and the team was gelling really well. If it costs you picks to get more competitive for the short term, you have to do it.