I firmly believe watching PEB and VDV pretend to play hockey for 2 years is one of the layers of hell
- YuenglingJagr

Agreed. It is the fifth circle of hell.

The only time I thought they were truly in "cap hell" was when they had to sign an amateur player to have a complete roster because they were completely out of cap space. That was ugly.

Now that being said, there have been time where I've felt they could have done a better job at managing their cap situation. However I think they've done a very good job of this under Hextall.
- BiggE

I think the Flyers managed the cap according to their philosophy of trying to win every year. Nothing was due to mismanagement or by accident.

Isn't Morin waiver exempt next year? I might be wrong.
- landros 2

https://www.capfriendly.c...ator/samuel-morin#results

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOa--Dhu11M

My biggest issue is that, where is Morin's spot next year? And if he impresses in camp similar to Sanheim, where is Myer's spot?

All this young D prospect pool we have is great, and seeing what Ghost, Provorov, Hagg, and Sanheim can do is nice. But both MacDonald and Gudas are signed towards next year, and the organization doesn't seem keen to sitting them or trading them, which means another season with only 2 spots between Hagg, Sanheim, Morin, and Myers. Gudas could be moved, but the Flyers seem fixated on having a RHD (which Myers is, also), and while AMac could be moved, it would either be for an equally paid player, or it would require retained money and/or additional assets. I'm hoping that Hextall has accounted for all of this, but I just wonder what the plan would be for later on this season and next.

Let's say the following happens: Provorov goes out for a month (DOOMED!) and Morin is recalled. During his recall, Morin plays exceptionally well, plays great defense and is able to chip in a handful of points. Assuming everyone's play remains strong, when Provorov comes back, do you send Morin back down after he's shown that he belongs? Do you send one of Hagg/Sanheim back, Do you sit Ghost? Or do you bite the bullet and admit that maybe having 3 good rookies in your lineup is acceptable and do the unthinkable of sitting one of the vets?
- jmatchett383

In the past 3 years, the Flyers have found a way to introduce at least 1 rookie onto their blue line. I think after this season they will re-evaluate who fits next season but it's still too early for Hextall to be putting together a plan of how to fit all rookies as fixtures on the blue line let alone Myers. Hextall needs this season to evaluate. Next year, Ghost, Provorov and likely at least 2 other rookie Dmen will be much more experienced. So maybe AMac or Gudas become more expendable. But for now, I can respect the line of thinking which requires veterans in the lineup.

The only time I thought they were truly in "cap hell" was when they had to sign an amateur player to have a complete roster because they were completely out of cap space. That was ugly.

Now that being said, there have been time where I've felt they could have done a better job at managing their cap situation. However I think they've done a very good job of this under Hextall.
- BiggE

Hextall has managed the cap pretty well....he just has to avoid the "bad" contract going forward....there should be enough youth that he shouldn't be tempted.

I firmly believe watching PEB and VDV pretend to play hockey for 2 years is one of the layers of hell
- YuenglingJagr

So you aren't forgetting about it. I would think with the level of condescension you offered you would have a better retort. That's more of a question of talent and roster choices than cap issues. Both Bellemare and Vandevelde could've been waived and removed from the roster at any time. Cap space did not prevent them from doing so.

Bill

This may have been asked already. But do you think it would be in the team's and Morin's best interest if they tried to get him some right side experience while down in the AHL?

It is an instructional league in some ways and maybe that wouldn't be such a bad experiment?

Why or why not?
- MBFlyerfan

They can experiment. Not sure they'd want Morin regularly on his backhand but perhaps he could adjust. On the other hand, the Phantoms are loaded with natural right side D men.

Hextall has managed the cap pretty well....he just has to avoid the "bad" contract going forward....there should be enough youth that he shouldn't be tempted.
- landros 2

There is always going to be a bad contract or two. Nature of the business. As the Flyers get better and better and hopefully their young players develop, they'll get tighter to the cap again.

http://www.courierpostonl...ight-salary-cap/91697942/

“We have to look at all our options,” Hextall said. “One might affect the other like dominoes. Player X you might have to do something you don’t want to do because of the cap. The roster now is not an issue. The cap is.”

So you aren't forgetting about it. I would think with the level of condescension you offered you would have a better retort. That's more of a question of talent and roster choices than cap issues. Both Bellemare and Vandevelde could've been waived and removed from the roster at any time. Cap space did not prevent them from doing so.
- MJL

I try to forget about it, but the night sweats and flashbacks every time I see the number 7 followed by a 6 make it very difficult

A couple of years ago they had to call up Chris Conner as a spare forward for a road trip because they only had about $600,000 in cap space.

Hell doesn't exist, but that's far from an ideal situation. Where they are now with the cap is much better.
- Feanor

Of course it is much better. That's normally a question of injuries and temporary roster issues. I don't consider that cap hell. What I consider cap hell is losing players that you don't want to lose and being forced to make moves you don't want to make. Despite the Flyers being in a perceived cap hell they have always been able to make moves based on choices they've decided on and always were able to add player to try and improve the team. The Flyers cap issues over the year were vastly overblown by a fraction of the fan base and the media.

They can experiment. Not sure they'd want Morin regularly on his backhand but perhaps he could adjust. On the other hand, the Phantoms are loaded with natural right side D men.
- bmeltzer

Yeah, they now have 3 LHD and 5 RHD.

I don't think Morin is going to start playing the right side and he doesn't need to since Provorov is the only other left-side only dman we have. Ghost and Hagg can play right, and Sanheim can too although I think he's better offensively on his strong side.

They can experiment. Not sure they'd want Morin regularly on his backhand but perhaps he could adjust. On the other hand, the Phantoms are loaded with natural right side D men.
- bmeltzer

Thanks.

I was just exploring some options.

Of course it is much better. That's normally a question of injuries and temporary roster issues. I don't consider that cap hell. What I consider cap hell is losing players that you don't want to lose and being forced to make moves you don't want to make. Despite the Flyers being in a perceived cap hell they have always been able to make moves based on choices they've decided on and always were able to add player to try and improve the team. The Flyers cap issues over the year were vastly overblown by a fraction of the fan base and the media.
- MJL

See the Caps last summer.

Thanks.

I was just exploring some options.
- MBFlyerfan

have you thought about actually performing surgery to switch his left and right hands?

The Flyers cap issues over the year were vastly overblown by a fraction of the fan base and the media.
- MJL

And the GM.

http://www.philly.com/phi...w_on_building_Flyers.html

"The salary cap is hard," Hextall said in an interview with the Daily News. "There's no way around it, so you've got to stay within it. You always have to be cognizant of it. I can't sit behind my desk and look at this year, or just this year and next year. I've got to look two, three, four years. As hard as it is to project where the salary cap's going to be and what you're going to have to pay certain players, I don't want to get into a position where we're forced to trade a young player. So you just have to constantly be on top of it.

"You have to constantly be monitoring where you're at, where you think you're going to be at in one year, two years, three years. There's guys you've got to look at and say, 'OK, in three years, this guy is up, or these four guys are up.' And we better have some space. So you can't make moves to help you - sign a guy to a long-term deal that might help you for a year or two, it's going to hurt you in three or four years. We're just not going to do that."

And the GM.

http://www.philly.com/phi...w_on_building_Flyers.html
- Feanor

Hextall isn't overblowing the cap there, he's explaining the reality of it. The cap is doing what it is designed to do and limit the amount of spending that a team can do. That limit is there for every single team. It affects teams more like the Flyers who are a large market team and like to spend money on players. The Flyers position with the cap and the limit on maneuverability within it for past years especially under Holmgren was by choice and not due to mismanagement. They were always able to do what they wanted to do. We can look at some of the choices they made in hindsight and disagree with them but once this teams young players advance, we'll see the Flyers tighter and tighter to the cap. Hopefully they continue to draft and develop well to help with that by adding good players on ELC's.

I think the Flyers managed the cap according to their philosophy of trying to win every year. Nothing was due to mismanagement or by accident.
- MJL

Accident no, mismanagement, well sorry, but there was some mismanagement. Signing a guy like VLC because he wants to play for Laviolette and his offense driven system, then firing that coach and replacing him with a guy who puts in a D first system was not the smartest move.

I think Holmgren went overboard a few times in signing FA's where he would have done better just to walk away. Bryz I get, Snider pretty much put a gun to his head, but giving VLC 5 years and paying AMac 5 million over 6 years were not good cap management decisions. At some point, you can't be afraid to just walk away from a deal and I think Holmgren never learned that. I would have never offered VLC more than 3 years and if he says no, you move on. Same with AMac; my final offer would have been 5 years, 22.5 million, period. If he says no, again, you move on.

All that being said, I think "cap hell" for the most part, is a little over the top, but they have not, at least until Hextall took over, managed the cap as well as they could have.

Great blog today Bill. I really appreciate how well you flesh out the details in the reasoning of the Flyers higher-ups.

We're lucky to have you!

All that being said, I think "cap hell" for the most part, is a little over the top, but they have not, at least until Hextall took over, managed the cap as well as they could have.
- BiggE

It doesn't matter if you don't want to call it cap hell. They were just in hell. They had one of the worst rosters (top to bottom) and one of the worst cap situations in the entire NHL for multiple seasons. They didn't lose anyone because of the salary cap because there was no one to lose. Instead the team had no choice but to stealth tank their way into restocking their prospect pool.

If Coots scores 50 or Simmonds was signed to a bridge deal, something would've had to happen. It also took an idiot (dean lombardi) and a favor (VLC retiring 2 years early) to get them off with just a flesh wound. Ask Claude Giroux's prime if they weren't in hell. Having a smart GM that knew how to get out of the situation doesn't change the situation the Flyers were in.

And the GM.

http://www.philly.com/phi...w_on_building_Flyers.html
- Feanor

Doesn't read like an overblown situation to me. Seems like an acknowledgement that the cap is always a consideration. :shrug:

It doesn't matter if you don't want to call it cap hell. They were just in hell. They had one of the worst rosters (top to bottom) and one of the worst cap situations in the entire NHL for multiple seasons. They didn't lose anyone because of the salary cap because there was no one to lose. Instead the team had no choice but to stealth tank their way into restocking their prospect pool.

If Coots scores 50 or Simmonds was signed to a bridge deal, something would've had to happen. It also took an idiot (dean lombardi) and a favor (VLC retiring 2 years early) to get them off with just a flesh wound. Ask Claude Giroux's prime if they weren't in hell. Having a smart GM that knew how to get out of the situation doesn't change the situation the Flyers were in.
- YuenglingJagr

Don't forget the couple of "get out of jail free" cards they played after CBA negotiations. The Bryz contract would have been a travesty. Hexy will not let those types of things happen.

It doesn't matter if you don't want to call it cap hell. They were just in hell. They had one of the worst rosters (top to bottom) and one of the worst cap situations in the entire NHL for multiple seasons. They didn't lose anyone because of the salary cap because there was no one to lose. Instead the team had no choice but to stealth tank their way into restocking their prospect pool.

If Coots scores 50 or Simmonds was signed to a bridge deal, something would've had to happen. It also took an idiot (dean lombardi) and a favor (VLC retiring 2 years early) to get them off with just a flesh wound. Ask Claude Giroux's prime if they weren't in hell. Having a smart GM that knew how to get out of the situation doesn't change the situation the Flyers were in.
- YuenglingJagr

Can't argue with any of this. Holmgren did not work the cap well, there can be no denying it. I don't think they will have the same problems under Hextall. Also, though it's not a given, I would think that the next CBA which kicks in 2021 will probably once again give teams a cap free buyout, the big money/market teams will insist on it. At that time, I'm pretty sure the Flyers will be saying goodbye to either the last 2 years on Giroux's deal or the last four years of Voracek's.

Apparently even Coots can't make Giroux and Jake backcheck effectively

- BiggE

Back checking isnt a wingers job. They are to cover the Dmen

Accident no, mismanagement, well sorry, but there was some mismanagement. Signing a guy like VLC because he wants to play for Laviolette and his offense driven system, then firing that coach and replacing him with a guy who puts in a D first system was not the smartest move.


- BiggE

That's not a cap mismanagement issue. That's more of a player evaluation issue and a player signing that didn't work out. Easy to do in hindsight. Even though we read about how that was going to kill the Flyers and the cap, we see that it didn't. Perfect example of how cap issues are often overblown.

I think Holmgren went overboard a few times in signing FA's where he would have done better just to walk away. Bryz I get, Snider pretty much put a gun to his head, but giving VLC 5 years and paying AMac 5 million over 6 years were not good cap management decisions. At some point, you can't be afraid to just walk away from a deal and I think Holmgren never learned that. I would have never offered VLC more than 3 years and if he says no, you move on. Same with AMac; my final offer would have been 5 years, 22.5 million, period. If he says no, again, you move on.


- BiggE

Player evaluation issues again.