Fine, but there's a world of difference between 2 1sts and 2 2nds. If it was 2 2nds, Hexy probably hangs up and laughs. I say this in the most non-condescending way possible, please do your best to gets your facts straight before talking about how poor something is. I made the same mistake this morning with the waiver claim rule, it happens.
- jmatchett383

We all make mistakes and if I make one I am sorry. I just hope that respectfully we can point out mistakes without being Richards. All good, just enjoy this part of HB, some opinions are great, some not so great and not everyone has to agree or disagree

Hahaha! You can break down Schenn's game situationally all you want, he put pucks in the net. The Flyers don't have those guys growing on trees unfortunately . . . so for at least this year . . . the deal seems a minus for now. Lindblom and Patrick could combine for 40+ goals and change that.

Long term, Frost is already looking nice for down the road. The trade is what it is now. I look to it as a positive sign Hextall is stepping up the kids and we'll see more of that in who finally does make the team.
- fls13

He put pucks in the net on the PP, and he was ineffective both offensively and defensively at 5v5. Much like Briere in his later years in Philadelphia, what he brought on the PP (to me) wasn't enough to outweigh his deficiencies at 5v5.

Yes, they would score more goals this year with him in the lineup as opposed to Lehtera, but that doesn't mean they'd be a better team.

We all make mistakes and if I make one I am sorry. I just hope that respectfully we can point out mistakes without being Richards. All good, just enjoy this part of HB, some opinions are great, some not so great and not everyone has to agree or disagree
- joegreif17

If you disagree with me, you are a bigot Nazi.

I think that's a fair, healthy outlook to have in life.

Not everyone would agree but time will tell. I still feel that Schenn will have his best years ahead of him. The Canucks rushed Cam Neely once upon a time and gave up on him and we all know how that turned out. Just sayin
- joegreif17

Well, think about the trade where Pittsburgh traded their first round pick for Ryan Reaves.

Ryan Reaves is a player who has a pretty good body of work to look at, and in no universe does that body of work warrant the use of a first round pick. Regardless of what he does as a member of the Penguins, it was not a good trade bacuse 1) the Pens could have acquired more for their pick or 2) given less for Reaves. The fact that they targeted and fell in love with him clouded their judgement, and it was a bad trade no matter what happens from here on out.

He put pucks in the net on the PP, and he was ineffective both offensively and defensively at 5v5. Much like Briere in his later years in Philadelphia, what he brought on the PP (to me) wasn't enough to outweigh his deficiencies at 5v5.

Yes, they would score more goals this year with him in the lineup as opposed to Lehtera, but that doesn't mean they'd be a better team.
- jmatchett383

If Schenn didn't put those pucks in the net on the PP, who would have?

Based on early results, it seems Lindblom and Patrick will both be more diligent in their end but they need to score at a pace too. Last year, the Flyers were at the bottom of the middle third of the league and there's a very real chance they dip into the bottom third this year. Somebody has to score the goals and it seems there's a chance the guys who are this exe season will be heading to the Phantoms.

I do figure Lindblom/Patrick put up, if not surpass, whatever Schenn and whoever else is pushed from the Top 9 score. If that happens, they've broken even for this year. That is certainly doable but I think they'll need more. You can't win 1-0 consistently.
- fls13

Yes, the idea was to increase scoring from last year, not break even.

He put pucks in the net on the PP, and he was ineffective both offensively and defensively at 5v5. Much like Briere in his later years in Philadelphia, what he brought on the PP (to me) wasn't enough to outweigh his deficiencies at 5v5.

Yes, they would score more goals this year with him in the lineup as opposed to Lehtera, but that doesn't mean they'd be a better team.
- jmatchett383

Well it is not fair to single out Schenn 5 on 5. The big guns Giroux and Voracek were as bad or worse, Simmonds did nothing after the all star break. I partly blame Hakstol for not putting the right players together, he seemed to sink each line with a cull type player and was famous for pointing a finger at Gost and Travis when the real problem was 93 and 28 and himself.

If Schenn didn't put those pucks in the net on the PP, who would have?

Based on early results, it seems Lindblom and Patrick will both be more diligent in their end but they need to score at a pace too. Last year, the Flyers were at the bottom of the middle third of the league and there's a very real chance they dip into the bottom third this year. Somebody has to score the goals and it seems there's a chance the guys who are this exe season will be heading to the Phantoms.
- fls13

I'm not saying their PP production will go up or stay the same. There's a very real chance it goes down.

At the same time, there's a very real chance that his exit from the lineup at 5v5, where the majority of the game is played, may lead to more goals for and/or less goals against.

Given the choice to have him or not, I'd rather have him. But when you get a chance to add 2 first-round picks for a guy whose only contribution is on the PP and who actually makes you worse 5v5, I say you take it.

If Hakstol is serious about starting the season with Giroux at LW and Couturier as the number one center, I think Couturier is undervaluing the number one center spot and Couturier's importance in a checking role.

To a certain extent. I just think that Schenn didn't play the way Hextall sees the team playing and it was a matter of time before he was traded. I don't think two first round picks is enough of a return for a "core" player you see sticking around
- YuenglingJagr

Two first round picks as a large haul for Schenn who was a core player before being traded. If the offer wasn't as good, Schenn would still be a Flyer.

Well it is not fair to single out Schenn 5 on 5. The big guns Giroux and Voracek were as bad or worse, Simmonds did nothing after the all star break. I partly blame Hakstol for not putting the right players together, he seemed to sink each line with a cull type player and was famous for pointing a finger at Gost and Travis when the real problem was 93 and 28 and himself.
- joegreif17

Absolutely, they were a bad 5v5 team last year. Giroux and Voracek had down years as did a lot of people. I'm not singling him out. But I do also think that Giroux and Jake had down years because they've shown they can be elite in the past. Schenn has not, outside of the PP.

As I said, I'd rather have Schenn than not have him in a vacuum. But given his track record, 2 1st round picks for him is a damn good return.

Yes, the idea was to increase scoring from last year, not break even.
- MJL

I agree, that's the idea . . . but will it work?

They might not break even, they might fall back. I do think they'll put out a better team D so GA will go down. I'm actually very confident on that.

I agree, that's the idea . . . but will it work?

They might not break even, they might fall back. I do think they'll put out a better team D so GA will go down. I'm actually very confident on that.
- fls13

In my opinion, the departure of Schenn will lead to a decrease in PP scoring, but an increase in ES goal differential.

In the end, this team will go as far as Giroux, Voracek, and the goaltending take them.

Poll:

If the Flyers keep the #27 overall pick in 2008 and select John Carlson with it, do they win the 2010 Cup?

Two first round picks as a large haul for Schenn who was a core player before being traded. If the offer wasn't as good, Schenn would still be a Flyer.
- MJL

It might have been a matter of time until Schenn got traded and I think it's massively ignored that the majority of this team was bad at five on five last season. With this said, the Schenn trade was every bit as good as what we got for Richards, Carter and Coburn. It wasn't a deal I would have made but St Louis paid a heavy price.

Poll:

If the Flyers keep the #27 overall pick in 2008 and select John Carlson with it, do they win the 2010 Cup?
- jmatchett383

No.

Poll:

If the Flyers keep the #27 overall pick in 2008 and select John Carlson with it, do they win the 2010 Cup?
- jmatchett383

No, we would have traded Carlson for Pronger.

If Hakstol is serious about starting the season with Giroux at LW and Couturier as the number one center, I think Couturier is undervaluing the number one center spot and Couturier's importance in a checking role.
- SuperSchennBros

The issue to me, if it even is one, is less about Giroux not being the "#1 Center" and more about Giroux, Voracek and Couturier all playing on the same line. It better be one hell of an effective line or you have to distribute your horses better. I do think the Flyers are recognizing their depth as a strength which is why they're experimenting.

In my opinion, the departure of Schenn will lead to a decrease in PP scoring, but an increase in ES goal differential.

In the end, this team will go as far as Giroux, Voracek, and the goaltending take them.
- jmatchett383

I believe Giroux cannot get anywhere than he was last season.

In my opinion, the departure of Schenn will lead to a decrease in PP scoring, but an increase in ES goal differential.

In the end, this team will go as far as Giroux, Voracek, and the goaltending take them.
- jmatchett383

I wouldn't even go as far to say it's going to decrease PP scoring. Seems like the most likely outcome but many factors have changed. New PP coach, new options for 1st and 2nd units.

The issue to me, if it even is one, is less about Giroux not being the "#1 Center" and more about Giroux, Voracek and Couturier all playing on the same line. It better be one hell of an effective line or you have to distribute your horses better. I do think the Flyers are recognizing their depth as a strength which is why they're experimenting.
- Baxter27

In my opinion, the number one center role is so important to a team. Take Toronto for example. In the last remaining seasons Mats Sundin was a Leaf, he had zero around him. Sundin moves on, Toronto builds a team with everything but a legitimate number one center. I think Toronto makes the playoffs not just because Austin Matthews is legit but the kid has a legitimate team around him as a center piece.

In my opinion, the departure of Schenn will lead to a decrease in PP scoring, but an increase in ES goal differential.

In the end, this team will go as far as Giroux, Voracek, and the goaltending take them.
- jmatchett383

I think the D corps will be better and continue to get better as the season goes on. Even if they chicken out and don't keep Sanheim, we'll see him soon enough.

G and Jake need to finish too. I think this might be Hakstol's Top 6 right now.

28 Claude Giroux – 14 Sean Couturier – 93 Jakub Voracek
40 Jordan Weal – 64 Nolan Patrick – 17 Wayne Simmonds

It will be interesting to see how G at LW plays out. Coots has always needed to play with better offensive players.

I wouldn't even go as far to say it's going to decrease PP scoring. Seems like the most likely outcome but many factors have changed. New PP coach, new options for 1st and 2nd units.
- Baxter27

It's what I would expect to happen, not that it will come to fruition.

I think the D corps will be better and continue to get better as the season goes on. Even if they chicken out and don't keep Sanheim, we'll see him soon enough.

G and Jake need finish too. I think this might be Hakstol's Top 6 right now.

28 Claude Giroux – 14 Sean Couturier – 93 Jakub Voracek
40 Jordan Weal – 64 Nolan Patrick – 17 Wayne Simmonds

It will be interesting to see how G at LW plays out. Coots has always needed to play with better offensive players.
- fls13

I think Giroux will be back at center by Game 10. Just a feeling.

In my opinion, the number one center role is so important to a team. Take Toronto for example. In the last remaining seasons Mats Sundin was a Leaf, he had zero around him. Sundin moves on, Toronto builds a team with everything but a legitimate number one center. I think Toronto makes the playoffs not just because Austin Matthews is legit but the kid has a legitimate team around him as a center piece.
- SuperSchennBros

Toronto made the playoffs last season because they had 3 absolutely lethal scoring lines. Matthews was a big part of it but he wasn't alone.