I get the premise but I think Hagg is better suited then Gudas is. Also as much as Hagg is a rookie this is a guy who did play against men in sweden and played 3 full seasons in the AHL.

I think his skill set and the fact is he isn't a dynamic guy like Sanheim or Gostisbehere actually plays to his strength. He is just a solid all around defender.
- J35Bacher

I agree, but with all of his experience, he has never faced top line NHL competition playing at a regular season pace. Let him get his feet wet on the second pairing for the first few weeks of the season, then, if he's playing well, you can move him up to the first unit.

OT, but how about a 10 top Flyers hitters of all time, taking into account frequency as well as magnitude and whatever other factors you want.
- jmatchett383

Hmm, got a think a bit for that one. I would definitely balance ferocity with frequency when making up the list. Give me a little time for this one.

I could live with either, honestly. I'd prefer to start with Gudas and see how Hagg does as the season moves along.
- jmatchett383

I could live with it. I like Gudas but I just think Hagg would be fine. He has a Provorov type element to his game. Not as dynamic but just sound.

I agree, but with all of his experience, he has never faced top line NHL competition playing at a regular season pace. Let him get his feet wet on the second pairing for the first few weeks of the season, then, if he's playing well, you can move him up to the first unit.
- BiggE

I guess.

I just don't see a huge difference between 1st pair and 2nd pair. Your top 4 are all going to play heavy minutes.

I just prefer the pairings better due to skill sets.

I guess.

I just don't see a huge difference between 1st pair and 2nd pair. Your top 4 are all going to play heavy minutes.

I just prefer the pairings better due to skill sets.
- J35Bacher

A lot depends on the specific team you are playing. If the opponent has a really stacked top line and a significant drop off to the 2nd, then I want, at least for now, Provy and Gudas matching up against that top line. If you are playing a team that has more balance among their top 2 or even 3 lines, then going Provy/Hagg and Sanheim or even at times Morin with Gudas makes more sense.

As well as Hagg as played, I don't think it's best for him to be starting his NHL career on the top pair and matching up against the opponents best line every night, especially when their first 4 games are on the road and they will have a hard time controlling matchups. I would go with the same 6, but my pairings would be:

Provorov-Gudas
Sanheim-Hagg
Morin-Ghost
- BiggE

I do think they are ready but I am worried about how Hakstol will utilize them. The good thing about only having 2 rookies (or hell even just 1) is that you can shelter them and bring them along slower. Even Provorov was sheltered a bit to start the year and took on more responsibility as the year went on.

To me it really isn't about who is good enough to make the team. The 3 rookies were good enough to make the team last year, I just think there won't be 3 rookies starting every night for a bit. I would imagine that the pairings would rotate somewhat around during the game and situations, but it pushes someone into it right away (or one is scratched).

It is a big reason why I wanted Hagg or Morin here last year

Me yesterday: He's definitely played well enough to make the team, but I can understand him starting in the AHL.

Me today: They can't justify sending him down to start the year.
- jmatchett383

I was on the whole "send him down" train early in camp.

I'm not so sure anymore.

I'm still not sold on three rookies starting on D. When is the last time you saw an NHL team do that(if ever)? Sanheim looks very good, Hagg has been hot and cold, and Morin has been good, but maybe the coaches are seeing something negative with him right now. Who knows?

You need the Mandog in there....grit, determination, his teammates and coaches love him, leadership, character guy. Remember, he had offseason back surgery and didn't even start skating til mid-August. I think we can cut him some slack the first two games he has played. I thought he looked better in the second and third periods last night.

I think he is better than AMac, so he should be the one to stay as the #7. He and Gudas play well together, so I could also see them being the third pair. The next week will be very interesting.
- boxcar65

You may not have seen it ever, but I don't know if a team has ever stock-piled highly touted defensive prospects like the Flyers have, which is mostly because they were horrible about growing them and needed to rebuild the back-end. Not many team have that issue.

I was on the whole "send him down" train early in camp.

I'm not so sure anymore.
- johndewar

I think he's definitely earned to stay with the Flyers to start the season, but unfortunately I thought the same thing with Ghost a couple of preseasons ago. He was tearing it up and they sent him down and only was recalled when Streit got hurt. Sadly, I feel the same fate may be in store for Sanheim I'll never understand Hak's love of players like Amac, VDV, etc.

I'd have no issue sending manning down. No way another team puts a claim in for him. And if they do. Whoopty do
- Just5

Waiving Manning and risking the possibility of losing him would be stupid.

I think he's definitely earned to stay with the Flyers to start the season, but unfortunately I thought the same thing with Ghost a couple of preseasons ago. He was tearing it up and they sent him down and only was recalled when Streit got hurt. Sadly, I feel the same fate may be in store for Sanheim I'll never understand Hak's love of players like Amac, VDV, etc.
- aantny88

Remember, Ghost was also coming off major surgery that caused him to miss the last 4 months of his rookie AHL season. There was no way he was starting in the NHL that year, as they wanted him to go back down and get some regular season games under his belt. Not the case with Sanheim, who by all accounts grew by leaps and bounds as last season went on.

Waiving Manning and risking the possibility of losing him would be stupid.
- MJL

If they keep Hagg, Morin, and Sanheim, they either carry 8 D or waive one of Manning/AMac. I'd prefer waiving AMac, and you can recall him in case of an injury, given enough time.

One way or another, unless there are multiple injuries, I don't see Manning in the opening night lineup.

I think he is better than AMac, so he should be the one to stay as the #7. He and Gudas play well together, so I could also see them being the third pair. The next week will be very interesting.
- boxcar65

Manning is not even remotely close to being better than MacDonald.

If they keep Hagg, Morin, and Sanheim, they either carry 8 D or waive one of Manning/AMac. I'd prefer waiving AMac, and you can recall him in case of an injury, given enough time.
- jmatchett383

Waiving and demoting MacDonald if they're going to keep Sanheim is the smart move.

Manning is not even remotely close to being better than MacDonald.
- MJL

Agreed. AMac's biggest issue is his salary, but he's a good a 5/6, maybe a 4. Manning is, at best, a 6.

My friend and I are somewhat seriously trying to remember the last time the Flyers scored a goal like this. Unscreened, one on one, just straight up blasting it past the goalie with an incredible shot

If they keep Hagg, Morin, and Sanheim, they either carry 8 D or waive one of Manning/AMac. I'd prefer waiving AMac, and you can recall him in case of an injury, given enough time.

One way or another, unless there are multiple injuries, I don't see Manning in the opening night lineup.
- jmatchett383

Get AMAC to the AHL...spin it as needing him to help groom Meyers and Friedman. I think Manning is better suited to occasional press box play role anyway...AMAC's rust seems more pronounced when he isn't skating regularly.

Also, for those who are hesitant to have Hagg on first pair. It would be better to drop him to third pair because Sanheim and Morin have a ton of chemistry/experience playing together at LHV. Also, if Sanheim is going to jump into play a lot...I like Morin staying back better than I like RH, but that is just my opinion.

This is pretty quick and off the top of my head which means I'm probably forgetting someone who belongs on this list, but here's my top 10 list of the Flyers best hitters in team history.

10. Mark Recchi
For all of his scoring accomplishments, we sometimes forget that Recchi was built a like bowling ball and he he threw some hard hits with pretty steady frequency. He put a lot of bigger players on their butts during his career.

9. Paul Holmgren
Homer is remembered more for being a fighter than a big hitter, but when he hit you, you felt it. Guys would visibly flinch when Holmgren was about to hit them, and he almost always separated the opponent from the puck.

8. Chris Pronger
Pronger didn't throw a lot of big hits, but he was the master of the sneaky dirty hit that left the opponent thrashing in pain. Forwards were cleary scared of Prongs and just the threat of violence often accomplished just as much as the actual hit. But when he did line someone up, they were in for a world of pain.

7. Zac Rinaldo
Other than the top 10 idiots to ever play for the Flyers, this is probably the only top 10 list of mine that you'll see this clown on. However, Rinaldo could do one thing well and that was throw big hits. The power he generated from a relatively small and slender frame was impressive.

6. Dan McGillis
McGillis was built like a tank and hit to hurt. He could nail you along the wall or in open ice and either way the opponent usually ended up on his rear end. Rarely did a game go by without a couple of big hits by McGillis.

5. Ed Van Impe
Van Impe would often lead with his elbows, a la the great Gordie Howe, but he loved to hit and hit often. Opposing forwards had their heads on a swivel any time Van Impe was on the ice. He will also be immortalized in Flyers history as the man who threw the hit against the Soviets that caused them to walk off the ice. Classic!

4. Rick Tocchet
Tocchet was a one man wrecking crew in his first stint with the team. He hit hard and he hit often. And, if you didn't like the hit, he'd happily follow it up with a good old fashion butt kicking. Dmen hated turning to go back after the puck when Tocchet was on the ice, they knew what was coming.

3. Radko Gudas
Gudas hits to hurt and usually the hits are legal which isn't easy under today's rules. He has really improved his hitting too, you rarely see him go out of position to make a big hit which used to be a flaw in his game. Instead he now waits until the opportunity arises and then goes out and levels the opponent. He hits as hard as anyone in the NHL today.

2. Bob Kelly
Kelly was just a wrecking ball when he was on the ice. He spent every shift looking for someone to level and he usually succeeded in his goal. at 5'10 200 lbs he was built like a fireplug and his hits hurt. Gudas hits harder than Kelly did, but no one in Flyers history comes close to The Hound when it comes to frequency. It seemed he threw at least 3 or 4 big hits every time he was on the ice.

1. Eric Lindros
He didn't throw the most hits, but no one, ever, that I've ever seen, hit any harder than Eric Lindros. You'd see him level someone at mid ice or along the boards and you expected to read the guys obituary in the next day's paper. No one in NHL history ever really matched his lethal combination of size, speed and ferocity and when he exploded into someone, the poor S.O.B. never stood a chance.

My friend and I are somewhat seriously trying to remember the last time the Flyers scored a goal like this. Unscreened, one on one, just straight up blasting it past the goalie with an incredible shot
- YuenglingJagr

Probably have to go back to Jeff Carter for an example of someone that ever scored like that with any kind of frequency.

My friend and I are somewhat seriously trying to remember the last time the Flyers scored a goal like this. Unscreened, one on one, just straight up blasting it past the goalie with an incredible shot
- YuenglingJagr

Ghost vs. LA???

This is pretty quick and off the top of my head which means I'm probably forgetting someone who belongs on this list, but here's my top 10 list of the Flyers best hitters in team history.

10. Mark Recchi
For all of his scoring accomplishments, we sometimes forget that Recchi was built a like bowling ball and he he threw some hard hits with pretty steady frequency. He put a lot of bigger players on their butts during his career.

9. Paul Holmgren
Homer is remembered more for being a fighter than a big hitter, but when he hit you, you felt it. Guys would visibly flinch when Holmgren was about to hit them, and he almost always separated the opponent from the puck.

8. Chris Pronger
Pronger didn't throw a lot of big hits, but he was the master of the sneaky dirty hit that left the opponent thrashing in pain. Forwards were cleary scared of Prongs and just the threat of violence often accomplished just as much as the actual hit. But when he did line someone up, they were in for a world of pain.

7. Zac Rinaldo
Other than the top 10 idiots to ever play for the Flyers, this is probably the only top 10 list of mine that you'll see this clown on. However, Rinaldo could do one thing well and that was throw big hits. The power he generated from a relatively small and slender frame was impressive.

6. Dan McGillis
McGillis was built like a tank and hit to hurt. He could nail you along the wall or in open ice and either way the opponent usually ended up on his rear end. Rarely did a game go by without a couple of big hits by McGillis.

5. Ed Van Impe
Van Impe would often lead with his elbows, a la the great Gordie Howe, but he loved to hit and hit often. Opposing forwards had their heads on a swivel any time Van Impe was on the ice. He will also be immortalized in Flyers history as the man who threw the hit against the Soviets that caused them to walk off the ice. Classic!

4. Rick Tocchet
Tocchet was a one man wrecking crew in his first stint with the team. He hit hard and he hit often. And, if you didn't like the hit, he'd happily follow it up with a good old fashion butt kicking. Dmen hated turning to go back after the puck when Tocchet was on the ice, they knew what was coming.

3. Radko Gudas
Gudas hits to hurt and usually the hits are legal which isn't easy under today's rules. He has really improved his hitting too, you rarely see him go out of position to make a big hit which used to be a flaw in his game. Instead he now waits until the opportunity arises and then goes out and levels the opponent. He hits as hard as anyone in the NHL today.

2. Bob Kelly
Kelly was just a wrecking ball when he was on the ice. He spent every shift looking for someone to level and he usually succeeded in his goal. at 5'10 200 lbs he was built like a fireplug and his hits hurt. Gudas hits harder than Kelly did, but no one in Flyers history comes close to The Hound when it comes to frequency. It seemed he threw at least 3 or 4 big hits every time he was on the ice.

1. Eric Lindros
He didn't throw the most hits, but no one, ever, that I've ever seen, hit any harder than Eric Lindros. You'd see him level someone at mid ice or along the boards and you expected to read the guys obituary in the next day's paper. No one in NHL history ever really matched his lethal combination of size, speed and ferocity and when he exploded into someone, the poor S.O.B. never stood a chance.
- BiggE

Very nice. It seems like Lindros is a top-3 in most every Flyers list. He should probably qualify as one of the team's 10 bets goalies, too.

Guys I would have given consideration to: Denis Gauthier, Scottie Upshall, Derian Hatcher. Like you said though, it was a quick off the top of the head list.

I'm looking forward to that idiots list.

Guys I would have given consideration to: Denis Gauthier, Scottie Upshall, Derian Hatcher. Like you said though, it was a quick off the top of the head list.
- jmatchett383

I would add Derrick Smith. Shockingly low PM totals, was good for double digit+ goals, all at ES, and he just buried people for quite a few years.

You may not have seen it ever, but I don't know if a team has ever stock-piled highly touted defensive prospects like the Flyers have, which is mostly because they were horrible about growing them and needed to rebuild the back-end. Not many team have that issue.
- jmatchett383

How young was the Carolina defense? Trying to remember but they iced a really young top 6.

I just think for where the Flyers are it's OK to let these guys play. Especially since I think next year is the true start to becoming a legit contender continually.

This is pretty quick and off the top of my head which means I'm probably forgetting someone who belongs on this list, but here's my top 10 list of the Flyers best hitters in team history.
- BiggE

As you know...my history of the Flyers is much shorter than yours. I have no idea where he would rank on a list, probably not on it, but I think Provorov is one of the best hitters. Not because he lays people out, but just that it seems like every time he uses his body on a guy, it is done with an incredible amount of purpose.

My friend and I are somewhat seriously trying to remember the last time the Flyers scored a goal like this. Unscreened, one on one, just straight up blasting it past the goalie with an incredible shot
- YuenglingJagr

Laughton did it to CSP with a wrister in 15-16. There's a Rags dman there but he's not really screening him.

https://www.nhl.com/flyer...c-41436703?autostart=true