I am glad the Pens are going to the white house...stay apolitical. Ryan is a twink, typical...either you agree with me, or you are a racist.
- Thorny

It's past being non-political. Going or not going have both become political statements. I disagree with the statement they are making.

I can agree with that and ye ryan seems incredibly disrespectful on twitter as of late.
- martox

Well, on the bright side we can all look forward to James Tanner writing a big MINUS for the Pens visiting the White House. It will likely be followed by some semi-coherent virtue-signalling sensationalism. James would never miss an opportunity to feign moral outrage.

It's past being non-political. Going or not going have both become political statements. I disagree with the statement they are making.
- Canada Cup

Just because you frame it as a false dichotomy (i.e., those who don't take your side implicitly support your rival), doesn't make it true. It is incredibly intellectually dishonest, divisive and manipulative to impose this binary perspective on people in order to justify attacking their character for disagreeing with you. In fact, people who frame issues in such a manipulative binary fashion immediately lose my support because they lack moral integrity and undermine the values of independent thought.

I am glad the Pens are going to the white house...stay apolitical. Ryan is a twink, typical...either you agree with me, or you are a racist.
- Thorny

You might want to look up the word twink. Check the urban dictionary first.

You might want to look up the word twink. Check the urban dictionary first.
- Wetbandit1

An edible cream filled chemically laced cake or a gay person I believe. Trump is the worst leader. ever. A true leader stays above the fray and is certainly not the cause of the termoil. Yet there he is every day fanning the flames of some GD controversy. He is a train wreck.

An edible cream filled chemically laced cake or a gay person I believe. Trump is the worst leader. ever. A true leader stays above the fray and is certainly not the cause of the termoil. Yet there he is every day fanning the flames of some GD controversy. He is a train wreck.
- powerhouse

Would be funny if Twitter just said (frank) this, you don't have a right to use our platform for this poop so we are deleting your account.

Just because you frame it as a false dichotomy (i.e., those who don't take your side implicitly support your rival), doesn't make it true. It is incredibly intellectually dishonest, divisive and manipulative to impose this binary perspective on people in order to justify attacking their character for disagreeing with you. In fact, people who frame issues in such a manipulative binary fashion immediately lose my support because they lack moral integrity and undermine the values of independent thought.
- RonPielep

Nice pick up on my manipulative binary post and my lack of moral integrity. Most of the less astute observers would have missed that but nothing gets past you.

I assume you noticed that Trump has already used the Penguin's non political decision to support his statements.

Nice pick up on my manipulative binary post and my lack of moral integrity. Most of the less astute observers would have missed that but nothing gets past you.

I assume you noticed that Trump has already used the Penguin's non political decision to support his statements.
- Canada Cup

You make no counter-argument about your fallacious binary framing so I'll assume you either agree or you simply don't have an argument to the contrary.

However Trump uses the Pens choice to come to the White House does not imply said intent on the part of the Pens organization. But once again intellectual honesty is clearly not your strength.

If someone uses you going somewhere to prove a point they are trying to make that does not imply you went to that place to support their point. This is logic for dummies 101.

The timing is poor, NBA said no and Trump is currently twitter fighting with the NFL. Burkle made a similar statement MONTHS ago, saying the team would accept the invitation in an apolitical way.

Fact is, the NHL is a league of upper middle class white kids from mostly Canada, Sweden, Finland, Germany, Russia, and a few other countries. There is literally nothing there for the players to get personally political about.

Crosby hasn't come out (of the closet). Is Kuhnhackl gonna stand up and say "Not my President!"? Trump literally isn't his president. Same for most of the rest of the team.

BTW. Did people know that Conor Sheary has been dating Sullivan's niece since 2008? They are even engaged currently. (wikipedia)

I wonder if that was a secret reason for Sullivan giving Sheary the leash he needed to succeed?

Small world.

The timing is poor, NBA said no and Trump is currently twitter fighting with the NFL. Burkle made a similar statement MONTHS ago, saying the team would accept the invitation in an apolitical way.

Fact is, the NHL is a league of upper middle class white kids from mostly Canada, Sweden, Finland, Germany, Russia, and a few other countries. There is literally nothing there for the players to get personally political about.

Crosby hasn't come out (of the closet). Is Kuhnhackl gonna stand up and say "Not my President!"? Trump literally isn't his president. Same for most of the rest of the team.
- eNDSo

"By agreeing to go to the White House Crosby has officially declared that he supports Nazis" - This is a hyperbole of the kind of childish nonsense perpetrated by seemingly smart individuals who willfully resist intellectual honesty.

You make no counter-argument about your fallacious binary framing so I'll assume you either agree or you simply don't have an argument to the contrary.

However Trump uses the Pens choice to come to the White House does not imply said intent on the part of the Pens organization. But once again intellectual honesty is clearly not your strength.

If someone uses you going somewhere to prove a point they are trying to make that does not imply you went to that place to support their point. This is logic for dummies 101.
- RonPielep

I didn't mean to imply any political intent on the part of the Pens. I don't know anything about the politics of ownership. Naïveté (weird autospell) is also possible. There were however political outcomes that matter and give comfort to Trump.

Anyway, let's give your Thesaurus a rest and call this a stunning victory for you.

I didn't mean to imply any political intent on the part of the Pens. I don't know anything about the politics of ownership. Naïveté (weird autospell) is also possible. There were however political outcomes that matter and give comfort to Trump.

Anyway, let's give your Thesaurus a rest and call this a stunning victory for you.
- Canada Cup

You explicitly implied political intent on the part of the Pens in order to frame your 'us vs them' false dichotomy that really only serves to either manipulate or alienate people.

There are political outcomes in just about every decision made by any large organization. That doesn't mean everything is a political decision (your initial accusation). Falsely insinuating/attributing intent to favor a political narrative is pretty much blatant intellectual cowardice. To your point about being naive, I doubt they were completely naive that Trump would use that information in his emblematic childish fashion. I mean Trump's petulance is (unfortunately) more or less the expectation for any reasonably coherent individual.

You don't need to back pedal and resort to petulant sarcasm in order to save face here. Like I said, there are good arguments to be made why the Pens made a poor choice. Claiming their choice implies them 'siding with Trump politically' is not one of those arguments. People are capable of both meeting someone and disagreeing with their politics (regardless of how cowardly media clowns try to frame everything as symbolic with regards to their own political agenda). The guilt by association fallacy is toxic and pervasive in modern political discourse. It is a tool used by people to manipulate and sow division. Don't buy into it.

You explicitly implied political intent on the part of the Pens in order to frame your 'us vs them' false dichotomy that really only serves to either manipulate or alienate people.

There are political outcomes in just about every decision made by any large organization. That doesn't mean everything is a political decision (your initial accusation). Falsely insinuating/attributing intent to favor a political narrative is pretty much blatant intellectual cowardice. To your point about being naive, I doubt they were completely naive that Trump would use that information in his emblematic childish fashion. I mean Trump's petulance is (unfortunately) more or less the expectation for any reasonably coherent individual.

You don't need to back pedal and resort to petulant sarcasm in order to save face here. Like I said, there are good arguments to be made why the Pens made a poor choice. Claiming their choice implies them 'siding with Trump politically' is not one of those arguments. People are capable of both meeting someone and disagreeing with their politics (regardless of how cowardly media clowns try to frame everything as symbolic with regards to their own political agenda). The guilt by association fallacy is toxic and pervasive in modern political discourse. It is a tool used by people to manipulate and sow division. Don't buy into it.
- RonPielep

Trump put them in a bad spot. They're not wrong to stick to their commitment to try and stay apolitical, but Trump is definitely going to MAKE it political and the brass has to know that.

It's not an easy question to answer. Stay out and be actively political, or stay neutral and be made political out of your control.

Trump put them in a bad spot. They're not wrong to stick to their commitment to try and stay apolitical, but Trump is definitely going to MAKE it political and the brass has to know that.

It's not an easy question to answer. Stay out and be actively political, or stay neutral and be made political out of your control.
- cygnus41

You are 100% correct that Trump put them in a bad spot. Pens need to be as clear as possible that they are an a-political organization who respects the ideological determinism of each individual. Also state clearly that regardless of how slimy parasitic 'journalists' and media personalities would like to frame it, their choice was based entirely on honoring a tradition and does not indicate any political beliefs.

Not sure about all the politics here, but just as an observer I would say Trump is a manipulator that has no morals. He will do whatever he needs to to succeed - possibly what he has done his whole life in business I'm not sure.

I believe it's the first time a leader in a democratic world has so openly treated so many with, what's the word - contempt? Fake news - that's him all over.

But the question is & it's debatable, is what he is doing good or bad for your country? If he is legitimately trying to make America great again should he be given the leeway to do it or is it creating a 'do what I say not what I do' scenario that is basically so hypercritical it's ridiculous?

He plays a dangerous game & yes I believe he will use & abuse every scenario in his favour - the Pens visiting the White House, yes that's an action that supports him in his spin to the people.

He is Caesar & his gladiator games aren't murder, they are for his people to enjoy.

'Are you entertained?'

You are 100% correct that Trump put them in a bad spot. Pens need to be as clear as possible that they are an a-political organization who respects the ideological determinism of each individual. Also state clearly that regardless of how slimy parasitic 'journalists' and media personalities would like to frame it, their choice was based entirely on honoring a tradition and does not indicate any political beliefs.
- RonPielep

That means they are 'against' Trump then?

You explicitly implied political intent on the part of the Pens in order to frame your 'us vs them' false dichotomy that really only serves to either manipulate or alienate people.

There are political outcomes in just about every decision made by any large organization. That doesn't mean everything is a political decision (your initial accusation). Falsely insinuating/attributing intent to favor a political narrative is pretty much blatant intellectual cowardice. To your point about being naive, I doubt they were completely naive that Trump would use that information in his emblematic childish fashion. I mean Trump's petulance is (unfortunately) more or less the expectation for any reasonably coherent individual.

You don't need to back pedal and resort to petulant sarcasm in order to save face here. Like I said, there are good arguments to be made why the Pens made a poor choice. Claiming their choice implies them 'siding with Trump politically' is not one of those arguments. People are capable of both meeting someone and disagreeing with their politics (regardless of how cowardly media clowns try to frame everything as symbolic with regards to their own political agenda). The guilt by association fallacy is toxic and pervasive in modern political discourse. It is a tool used by people to manipulate and sow division. Don't buy into it.
- RonPielep

dude... I am from sweden... you make my head hurt reading these posts

Not sure about all the politics here, but just as an observer I would say Trump is a manipulator that has no morals. He will do whatever he needs to to succeed - possibly what he has done his whole life in business I'm not sure.

I believe it's the first time a leader in a democratic world has so openly treated so many with, what's the word - contempt? Fake news - that's him all over.

But the question is & it's debatable, is what he is doing good or bad for your country? If he is legitimately trying to make America great again should he be given the leeway to do it or is it creating a 'do what I say not what I do' scenario that is basically so hypercritical it's ridiculous?

He plays a dangerous game & yes I believe he will use & abuse every scenario in his favour - the Pens visiting the White House, yes that's an action that supports him in his spin to the people.

He is Caesar & his gladiator games aren't murder, they are for his people to enjoy.

'Are you entertained?'
- Aussiepenguin

He was born into money and has become an 'expert' at being provocative to garner rating as when he had a TV show. It doesn't occur to him that fanning the flames of bigotry, racism and hatred could intensify our differences and divisiveness and how that can be a horribly deadly, violent and destructive force. People stand for a flag as a sign of loyalty. Each of us has our own feelings about that. For the black folks who have power and influence who want to stop police from shooting black people with alarming indifference they do not feel a sense of loyalty and perhaps feel a sense of betrayal. Slavery damaged the US culture and it's bigotry hides just below the surface in communities, some more than others.
If they feel betrayed and they want publicity for their fellow people, I admire them for it.

great, as if Ryan Wilson talking down to us about hockey analytics wasn't enough, now we get to listen to him talk down to us about politics and call us bigots unless we agree with him.

i have no problem with the Penguins going to the WH nor any problem with guys taking a knee for the national anthem. there are bigger and more concerning parts of this country and of my life as a whole that needs attention compared to who goes to the White House and who takes a knee.

i think both sides in this argument are about 5 years old. more importantly, neither side truly practices what they preach.

when tim thomas didnt go to the WH after the Bruins won the Cup, I'd be willing to bet many of these same people, including Ryan, thought of him as a racist and of poor class. now, if you go to the White House, you must be a racist.

jesus, Twitter was an even bigger nightmare than usual today.

great, as if Ryan Wilson talking down to us about hockey analytics wasn't enough, now we get to listen to him talk down to us about politics and call us bigots unless we agree with him.

i have no problem with the Penguins going to the WH nor any problem with guys taking a knee for the national anthem. there are bigger and more concerning parts of this country and of my life as a whole that needs attention compared to who goes to the White House and who takes a knee.

i think both sides in this argument are about 5 years old. more importantly, neither side truly practices what they preach.

when tim thomas didnt go to the WH after the Bruins won the Cup, I'd be willing to bet many of these same people, including Ryan, thought of him as a racist and of poor class. now, if you go to the White House, you must be a racist.

jesus, Twitter was an even bigger nightmare than usual today.
- SuperHenderson13

When is Twitter not ugly. It seems to bring out the worst in people. BTW, taking a knee to bring a light to racism is not a childish cause. IMO.

When is Twitter not ugly. It seems to bring out the worst in people. BTW, taking a knee to bring a light to racism is not a childish cause. IMO.
- powerhouse

what do you hope to solve by taking a knee? i'm sincerely asking because all you do in my opinion is give real racists and bigots a good reason to hate you and claim to have the "moral patriot" authority. i dont listen to those clowns either because they are the same ones planted on their couch when the anthem is playing.

I dont like Kaepernick purely for his decision to wear a Fidel Castro shirt. I have no problem with his decision to kneel, he is a grown man and has every right to do so. i also like how he has made progress in the communities and has become a good spokesperson and donated his time and money to causes he agrees with.

i just dont get what this whole "movement" hopes to achieve. you further divide both sides. and yes, while Twitter is incredibly useful for getting news and enjoyable tweets from the people i follow, there are a lot of terrible people who use it as a platform to hide behind a computer screen and type garbage.

When is Twitter not ugly. It seems to bring out the worst in people. BTW, taking a knee to bring a light to racism is not a childish cause. IMO.
- powerhouse

Take a knee because a cop shoots a drug dealer, riot because cops shoot someone who doesn't obey their commands....but not a damn word about the 30 shooting sin chicago this weekend. Thats my issue, how many riots will there be over the church shooting? Not one, how many NFL players will speak up about it? I have a feeling we won't see one word.

He was born into money and has become an 'expert' at being provocative to garner rating as when he had a TV show. It doesn't occur to him that fanning the flames of bigotry, racism and hatred could intensify our differences and divisiveness and how that can be a horribly deadly, violent and destructive force. People stand for a flag as a sign of loyalty. Each of us has our own feelings about that. For the black folks who have power and influence who want to stop police from shooting black people with alarming indifference they do not feel a sense of loyalty and perhaps feel a sense of betrayal. Slavery damaged the US culture and it's bigotry hides just below the surface in communities, some more than others.
If they feel betrayed and they want publicity for their fellow people, I admire them for it.
- powerhouse

The bold is the key point here to me. Although I would say that it probably does occur to him but he chooses to use it for political gain anyways. It's not unique to him either. Many political parties, especially the Dems historically, are guilty of playing dangerous identity politics. Think about how disgusting it is that when an independent thinking minority (or LGBTQ) person wants to vote Republican they are labelled an Uncle Tom or a race traitor or whatever. It is sad. Even how Hillary Clinton tries to blame women for her loss, she comes out and basically says any woman who didn't vote for her is publicly embarrassing themselves. Well people don't like to be treated like pawns in some tribal identity politics.

Trump's politics are even more dangerous in the sense that he has now unleashed the horrible force of white identity politics. That should scare the poop out of people. But what people need to understand is that even without Trump (or a politician like him), white identity politics is a serious threat as long as identity politics as a whole is seen as legitimate. When people play the tribal game of identity politics, they are legitimizing the treatment of people as groups and not individuals which will only spurs further division. Trump's brand of populism is in some sense a product of people reacting to the power of tribalism/identity-politics and deciding that they can play those games too.

dude... I am from sweden... you make my head hurt reading these posts

- martox

My apologies