i've got a bit of hope for scottie too. he worked his butt off for the blues last 2 years

unfortunately for everyone, dorsett is "healthy"
- BobBot

He's definitely the PTO I like the most

The first 2 thoughts was more to do with you, rest was just this thread in general.

So no response to my questions?
- Nucker101

Ok since u asked...

Who says he has to be Burns? My comparison & shows how stupid the idea is.
Worst thing that can happen? Waste of time bumping a better winger.
Bust? As for an NHL Dman yes. Prospects r only that eg prospects.
Scott Walker comes to mind & Subban not even close to that upside.

Ok since u asked...

Who says he has to be Burns? My comparison & shows how stupid the idea is.
Worst thing that can happen? Waste of time bumping a better winger.
Bust? As for an NHL Dman yes. Prospects r only that eg prospects.
- Nighthawk

"He's not Brent Burns"

How does that comp show how stupid that is? That logic literally makes no sense. No one is expecting Brent Burns.

It's just a shot in the dark, a no-risk move with a long shot at working out.

Bump a winger? Utica isn't exactly stacked with legit NHL prospects, do they have 8 wingers down there with NHL upside? If a winger gets bumped by Subban, is that guy even that good to begin with? None of this makes any sense.

"He's not Brent Burns"

How does that comp show how stupid that is? That logic literally makes no sense. No one is expecting Brent Burns.

It's just a shot in the dark, a no-risk move with a long shot at working out.

Bump a winger? Utica isn't exactly stacked with legit NHL prospects, do they have 8 wingers down there with NHL upside? If a winger gets bumped by Subban, is that guy even that good to begin with? None of this makes any sense.
- Nucker101

What makes Subban so special to be a project?
That makes no sense trying turn poop into soup on a whim
Loan him to Europe to experiment.
We develop players not reinvent them.

What makes Subban so special to be a project?
That makes no sense trying turn poop into soup on a whim
Loan him to Europe to experiment.
We develop players not reinvent them.
- Nighthawk

Why does that make him special? If anything, it's a last attempt to develop a skilled offensive player with speed into something useful before giving up on him. Not sure how that makes him special, if anything it sends him a message that we think you suck defensively. Why does it make no sense to at least try it if he's never going to be good enough defensively? No o e questions his skating, or his offense. There's way more offensive wingers in the NHL who suck defensively than there are small dmen who suck defensively. Do you disagree?

Why can't Utica be used to experiment? Why Europe?

We develop players? Canucks are one of the worst developmental teams in the NHL

Why does that make him special? If anything, it's a last attempt to develop a skilled offensive player with speed into something useful before giving up on him. Not sure how that makes him special, if anything it sends him a message that we think you suck defensively. Why does it make no sense to at least try it if he's never going to be good enough defensively? No o e questions his skating, or his offense. There's way more offensive wingers in the NHL who suck defensively than there are small dmen who suck defensively. Do you disagree?

Why can't Utica be used to experiment? Why Europe?

We develop players? Canucks are one of the worst developmental teams in the NHL
- Nucker101

Has changing a player at this level of development ever worked?
Don't say Burns, because he succeeded at both positions really, while the Subban situations seems to be that he can't crack the pro's in his current role.

I'd vote to keep him at D and see if he can continue to develop personally.
Don't we always say that D take longer to develop? It's not outside the realm of possibility that he can stick with the team given the right opportunity and D partner.
Unlikely, but possible.

Long time reader, first time poster.

Firstly, thank you Carol for your excellent writing and insight.

I think that Green is going to be great for this team, and if what I have seen at the open training camp practices is any indication, this team is definitely on the upswing.

Has changing a player at this level of development ever worked?
Don't say Burns, because he succeeded at both positions really, while the Subban situations seems to be that he can't crack the pro's in his current role.

I'd vote to keep him at D and see if he can continue to develop personally.
Don't we always say that D take longer to develop? It's not outside the realm of possibility that he can stick with the team given the right opportunity and D partner.
Unlikely, but possible.
- dbot

Not often, but some higher profile ones are Buff, Fedorov(played some D) ,Housley played some wing.

Red Kelly won a Norris before becoming a centre.

Not often, but some higher profile ones are Buff, Fedorov(played some D) ,Housley played some wing.

Red Kelly won a Norris before becoming a centre.
- golfingsince

Right, but those are all examples (like Burns), where they were established and effective at their current positions and also were able to play a different position when needed...aka they were really extra talented.

Subban is an AHL defenceman that cannot crack the NHL as a Dman.

Can anyone think of a reclamation project, where a player currently in the pro's, struggling at their position, switched positions and succeeded?

Pretty sure this guy is a good example of a non star type player who played forward and defense
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Staios

Long time reader, first time poster.

Firstly, thank you Carol for your excellent writing and insight.

I think that Green is going to be great for this team, and if what I have seen at the open training camp practices is any indication, this team is definitely on the upswing.
- Slip and slap

Good evening Slip, or do you prefer slap?

If you are indeed a long time reader I hope to goodness that you have some really thick skin. First off you are going to be accused of being an alt, second your Pom Pom waving will be questioned, thirdly your hockey IQ and GM, armchair coaching will be criticized relentlessly.

Welcome to the drama queen, circle jerk, lemming blog, and good luck going forward.

Good evening Slip, or do you prefer slap?

If you are indeed a long time reader I hope to goodness that you have some really thick skin. First off you are going to be accused of being an alt, second your Pom Pom waving will be questioned, thirdly your hockey IQ and GM, armchair coaching will be criticized relentlessly.

Welcome to the drama queen, circle jerk, lemming blog, and good luck going forward.
- Makita

Nice capsulizing 😂😂👍

Wendell Clark was drafted as a defenseman.

Who says he has to be Brent Burns?


And what's the worst that can happen? You already agree that he's a bust as a dman so if he becomes a bust at froward then no loss, right?

And where the hell is this Subban "love"..he's arguably the most hated prospect amongst the regular posters on here. People have been calling him a bust since last year when he was 21 years old...damn that's a lot of love.


As for having another wussy up front, it's funny that some of the posters here who prefer having toughness/size are the same ones who defend Benning for picking OJ over Tkachuck and constantly praise Benning for adding Goldobin/Sven/OJ/Pettersson to the organization....those guys are all soft as (frank). McCann/Shinkaruk are 100% busts that Bennign smartly traded away, yet we need to give Virtanen/Goldobin more time.


Double standards in this thread are hilarious(not saying that I'm not guilty of this sometimes, but i try to be objective, just so happens that this GM makes a lot of moves I don't like). People like Booner think I'm a Gillis fanboy, but i ripped his drafting, hated how long he took to move a goalie, hated some of his signings/trades. Hated that he stuck by AV for so long.

Call a prospect/player for what he is, stop caring which GM drafted him, where they were born and how many fights/hits they have.
- Nucker101

TLDR

So what's up with this change in subject.
Peden as 4LW.
Pretty weak, eh?

Wendell Clark was drafted as a defenseman.
- Reubenkincade

Huh. Did not know that.

I was just looking through Steve Staois Hockeydb.
It has him listed as a RW throughout his career, but i remember him as a D (and his stats align more with a D's).
The wiki page says he played both positions, but no info on when he converted from winger to Dman.

TLDR

So what's up with this change in subject.
Peden as 4LW.
Pretty weak, eh?
- Pres.cup

also Ballard, Biega as wings.
Not a great outcome.

Huh. Did not know that.

I was just looking through Steve Staois Hockeydb.
It has him listed as a RW throughout his career, but i remember him as a D (and his stats align more with a D's).
The wiki page says he played both positions, but no info on when he converted from winger to Dman.
- dbot

Iirc Edmonton used him mostly as a forward, but I believe he played some wing during his stay with Canucks.

also Ballard, Biega as wings.
Not a great outcome.
- dbot

So.... let's leave the weak defensemen on defence for the time being.

I'm actually optimistic (2 percent) that Subban can develop enough to make it, there is a small chance.
Virtanan has like a 10 percent chance of being an impactfull top 6 player and a 75 percent chance of playing more then 100 games in the bottom 6.

Virtanan has a much higher floor and ceiling then Subban. (Period)

So.... let's leave the weak defensemen on defence for the time being.

I'm actually optimistic (2 percent) that Subban can develop enough to make it, there is a small chance.
Virtanan has like a 10 percent chance of being an impactfull top 6 player and a 75 percent chance of playing more then 100 games in the bottom 6.

Virtanan has a much higher floor and ceiling then Subban. (Period)
- Pres.cup

(frank) yes

Nucker?

Nucker?
- CanuckDon

I want to keep the game going

I want to keep the game going
- Nucker101

Tryamkin as a C?

Tryamkin as a C?
- dbot

I was on board with Sbisa as a winger instead of Biega. Sbisa could have been Virtanen 2.0

I was on board with Sbisa as a winger instead of Biega. Sbisa could have been Virtanen 2.0
- Nucker101

Don't talk about Sbisa to me.
Too soon.

Don't talk about Sbisa to me.
Too soon.
- dbot

We kept Gaunce