No comments on the NHL networks top 20 NHL center list? Giroux's absence expected, unexpected? Bogus?
- MJL

Not his biggest fan, but a healthy G is easily top 20.

On Flyers serious business talk, I'm not saying it's the singular reason, but I don't discount the effect Hakstol has had on Jake and Giroux, but more Jake because this came out of nowhere.

His entire game is based on skill, holding onto the puck, CREATING. But Hakstol's offensive system is predicated on perimeter play, low to high, have d-men shoot from a mile out for tips, forwards not geared to create much themselves. That's been Plan A, B, and C. And it flies in the face of Jake's game. You can see him overthinking out there, losing confidence, and this has probably been a reason why.
- Mononoke

yes but also no...Jake has also been one of the best at finding that other defender

I think he was affected by the system just like everyone else, but I think he just didn't play as good as he can play

No comments on the NHL networks top 20 NHL center list? Giroux's absence expected, unexpected? Bogus?
- MJL

It'd be nice if he can prove himself to be the more effective scorer than VDV for starters

yes but also no...Jake has also been one of the best at finding that other defender

I think he was affected by the system just like everyone else, but I think he just didn't play as good as he can play
- YuenglingJagr

This robotic system has neutered skill, any way you cut it. He was still one of the better 5v5 players on the team -- though his drop from elite possession player to merely above average also stands out to me -- and the leading point getter, and that's in spite of his issues. A lot of his issues feel snowballed together, and I'm saying this was a part of it.

FWIW Jake's great at finding the pinching d-man along the the far boards. He fed Provorov all season. But you know I'm not talking about creative plays to the d-men like that. And those are more east-west anyway. I'm talking the never.....ending.... down the boards, up the boards, terrible shot, retrieve, down the boards, up the boards, never score.

It'd be nice if he can prove himself to be the more effective scorer than VDV for starters
- Just5

I just think it is funny how you worded that

Not his biggest fan, but a healthy G is easily top 20.
- Pelle31Forever

I think he's behind at least 15-16 others pretty easily. But if you want to sneak Giroux in the late teens, that's about as far as I'd go, and even that is still up for debate.

It's not hard to understand national media seeing him coming off a career worst year, with increasingly lower point totals the last 3 years, and being skeptical/forgetting him. I mean, national media is crap and loves narrative and recency bias, so I don't pay them any heed. But we Flyers fans are worried about this stuff too, so they're just a dumber, more ignorant version of that worry.

No comments on the NHL networks top 20 NHL center list? Giroux's absence expected, unexpected? Bogus?
- MJL

After seeing the list it was hard to argue with it to be honest.

I still don't understand it
- Mononoke

Gotta love Nixons dog!

This robotic system has neutered skill, any way you cut it. He was still one of the better 5v5 players on the team -- though his drop from elite possession player to merely above average also stands out to me -- and the leading point getter, and that's in spite of his issues. A lot of his issues feel snowballed together, and I'm saying this was a part of it.

FWIW Jake's great at finding the pinching d-man along the the far boards. He fed Provorov all season. But you know I'm not talking about creative plays to the d-men like that. And those are more east-west anyway. I'm talking the never.....ending.... down the boards, up the boards, terrible shot, retrieve, down the boards, up the boards, never score.
- Mononoke

I think if anything it was a slightly indirect result of the system. Had more guys been getting to the net or had more open space (i.e. straight to the net once it is carried in) I think he couldve been more effective. To my eye, he has just been relying on passing too much. Doesnt make his own plays to the net enough to keep defenders and goalies honest.

Gotta love Nixons dog!
- MBFlyerfan

No, that part I get. I just don't understand the context of what it meant posted here. PSG is keeping secrets.

But the picture called out to me as my profile pic.

No, that part I get. I just don't understand the context of what it meant posted here. PSG is keeping secrets.

But the picture called out to me as my profile pic.
- Mononoke

I think the only reason Bonerfide hasn't stolen it yet is because he doesn't understand the context either

I think the only reason Bonerfide hasn't stolen it yet is because he doesn't understand the context either
- YuenglingJagr

Not understanding context has never stopped that 10th generation inbred goat(frank)er before.

I think if anything it was a slightly indirect result of the system. Had more guys been getting to the net or had more open space (i.e. straight to the net once it is carried in) I think he couldve been more effective. To my eye, he has just been relying on passing too much. Doesnt make his own plays to the net enough to keep defenders and goalies honest.
- YuenglingJagr

Giroux is the most talented player on the team. He did the same stuff. Curl up inside the zone, begin death by low to high. Those guys don't suddenly forget how to be creative and turn into hockey automatons. That's drilled in to the point they second guess themselves, which is what you're referencing. Agree to disagree! AGREE TO DISAGREE!

Giroux is the most talented player on the team. He did the same stuff. Curl up inside the zone, begin death by low to high. Those guys don't suddenly forget how to be creative and turn into hockey automatons. That's drilled in to the point they second guess themselves, which is what you're referencing. Agree to disagree! AGREE TO DISAGREE!
- Mononoke

I guess my point is really just that I think there was something more to them not being able to create offense. Even if they were told to just change systems offensively, I find it hard to believe two of the most talented offensive players on the team would struggle with it the most. That to me is what says something else was going on. Some of the fancies show pretty bad luck, and I think just regression back to the mean will lead to better seasons for both of them

I'm down in South Carolina so I should get a good view of totality. Kinda weird all the hype for 2 and a half minutes.
- Pelle31Forever

Sorta like losing your virginity?

On Flyers serious business talk, I'm not saying it's the singular reason, but I don't discount the effect Hakstol has had on Jake and Giroux, but more Jake because this came out of nowhere, but he doesn't look any different physically (besides late in the 1st year with that nagging injury).

His entire game is based on skill, holding onto the puck, CREATING. But Hakstol's offensive system is predicated on perimeter play, low to high up to the point, have d-men shoot from a mile out for tips, forwards not geared to create much themselves. That's fine, but it's been to absurd proportions their primary method of offense. And it flies in the face of Jake's game. You can see him overthinking out there, losing confidence, and this has probably been a reason why.
- Mononoke

That's an excuse being made for Voracek's poor season. Hakstol's system is not predicated on low percentage point shots. No hockey coach from the NHL level down to the pee wee level builds his offensive system and places an emphasis on the lowest percentage shot in hockey. That's just a repeated false narrative. Voracek just didn't have a great season, that's all. Nothing to do with Hakstol's system.

After seeing the list it was hard to argue with it to be honest.
- MBFlyerfan

Agreed although I'd have ranked Bergeron higher. One of the best all around players in the entire league.

That's an excuse being made for Voracek's poor season. Hakstol's system is not predicated on low percentage point shots. No hockey coach from the NHL level down to the pee wee level builds his offensive system and places an emphasis on the lowest percentage shot in hockey. That's just a repeated false narrative. Voracek just didn't have a great season, that's all. Nothing to do with Hakstol's system.
- MJL

Everyone just kinda sucked last year, that's all. Nothing to see here

Everyone just kinda sucked last year, that's all
- YuenglingJagr

Offensively they didn't play well. Giroux was not a good player at 5 on 5 and didn't produce well. Voracek put up decent point totals but overall struggled in his game.The Flyers offensive woes started with their struggles defensively. Injuries and poor play snowballed the offense from there. The point is an option that is available in any offensive system. NHL coaches preach and coach individuality and creativity in the offensive game. No coach is going to take away a players skill and creativity in creating plays. When a team is taking a lot of low percentage point shots it's because that's all they are able to generate not because the coach is telling them don't take the puck to the net and the dangerous areas of the ice becaue that's my offensive system and I prefer that. Mononoke's repeated false narrative lacks real insight and is simply off base.

Flyers have next to no chance at competing with the teams that have Crosby, OV, etc.

That's my view anyway. Last year, this year and the next few are largely irrelevant as are the prime years of G,V, and Simmonds.

The window opens when the current top teams start to die off and the new Flyers core starts becoming of age.

It's the years when Patrick, Konec, Provorov, etc lead this team that are truly important. The present is simply a walk through a desert.
- flyer_nutter

My thoughts exactly.

Sorta like losing your virginity?
- jak521

2 and a half minutes is being generous.

...And you might be right on all counts. Right now, I'm just seeing a lot of decline and a lot of inexperienced and very little middle ground between the two. I don't like our goaltending. Our defense is gonna super young. I just don't like our balance right now. This is me trying to be objective. Speaking with more of my head than my heart. Plus, I take into consideration that we play in probably the toughest division in all of hockey. Do you really believe Samuel Morin cannot be absolute schooled by Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovtchkin, Geno Malkin or John Tavares? I expect Hank Lundqvist an absolute wall, as he is every year.

I'm not trying to bring doom and goom to the board but reality.
- SuperSchennBros

If you want to hold up the white flag, go right ahead. Flyers future is looking damn bright and I think they'll be a playoff team starting next season.

If you want to hold up the white flag, go right ahead. Flyers future is looking damn bright and I think they'll be a playoff team starting next season.
- Baxter27

Honestly with all the unknowns going into this season I can see the Flyers in a range from struggling to being a really solid team. Regardless, I don't see how anyone cannot be excited for the future.

Offensively they didn't play well. Giroux was not a good player at 5 on 5 and didn't produce well. Voracek put up decent point totals but overall struggled in his game.The Flyers offensive woes started with their struggles defensively. Injuries and poor play snowballed the offense from there. The point is an option that is available in any offensive system. NHL coaches preach and coach individuality and creativity in the offensive game. No coach is going to take away a players skill and creativity in creating plays. When a team is taking a lot of low percentage point shots it's because that's all they are able to generate not because the coach is telling them don't take the puck to the net and the dangerous areas of the ice becaue that's my offensive system and I prefer that. Mononoke's repeated false narrative lacks real insight and is simply off base.
- MJL

Giroux not being within the top 20 on the NHL list only furthers what I've tried to point out all summer. If you all want to live in ignorance, god bless. Regardless of what any of you think (not you MJL), we're a better team with Schenn and Mason still here. This is how I feel and I'm fine with most of you making fun of my views. I absolutely feel moving on from Schenn and Mason and possibly downgrading the current roster sends a bad message to G, Jake and Simmonds. I think the Flyers will be a force to be wreckin' with in the coming years. I think we'll have great moments this year but I'm expecting very little success this year outside of Nolan Patrick being an awesome player when healthy.

Honestly with all the unknowns going into this season I can see the Flyers in a range from struggling to being a really solid team. Regardless, I don't see how anyone cannot be excited for the future.
- MJL

Yep

Right now I think they'll be closer to the playoffs this coming season than last - whether they can cross the line remains to be seen