Why not?
- MattStrat

ummmm, yes?

Isn't Jarry potentially a high-end prospect? And the other goalie down there projects highly as well, as I remember. Plus there's ZAR. Didn't WBS make the playoffs despite a ton of injuries?
- WSCTeton17

Thats an interesting name. Haven't seen the entire list. I wonder which (and how many) goalies made the top 100. Guess there weren't many who made it.

ZAR is a big miss.

Thats an interesting name. Haven't seen the entire list. I wonder which (and how many) goalies made the top 100. Guess there weren't many who made it.

ZAR is a big miss.
- DeflatedPucks

I haven't seen the list but I believe he ranks the top 10 goalies separately

ummmm, yes?
- YuenglingJagr

Thats right.

Thats right.
- MattStrat

great talk

Still don't understand why teams don't trade a conditional 5th or 6th for the rights to a college player clearly heading in free agent direction. If on August 1st when everyone knew butcher wasn't signing with the avs why not give them that and have 2 weeks to work out a deal before 10 other teams get in on the action too!? If a deal gets done you give up a 6th round for clearly something worth way more than a 6th round pick and the avs get something rather then nothing. If no deal then you lose nothing and you compete with 10 other teams for him. At the very minimum it shows the player and agent you are serious about wanting him on your squad.
- pens4life-66

Because you're giving up assets when you don't have to. The same reason it's foolish to trade for UFA rights prior to free agency. There's no guarantee he's even interested in your team, so why trade for his rights if he's not interested? You could just wait until he's a free agent and show t hat you're very serious. It's bad asset management.

Because you're giving up assets when you don't have to. The same reason it's foolish to trade for UFA rights prior to free agency. There's no guarantee he's even interested in your team, so why trade for his rights if he's not interested? You could just wait until he's a free agent and show t hat you're very serious. It's bad asset management.
- j.boyd919

It isn't a secret when a guy knows he wants to test the UFA market either

great talk
- YuenglingJagr

indeed...a real meeting of the minds...

eh. We essentially fell 20 draft spots - I'm guessing JR and co. didn't see anyone they liked (except us who were hoping for Timmins). The head scratcher was the loss of Sundqvist
- DeflatedPucks

Sundqvist was never going to be anything that couldn't be had for cheap in FA. He was never going to amount to more than a 4C. His point production was lackluster in the AHL and likely would have been bad (or replaceable, easily) at an NHL level. The head scratcher is the number one ranked Euro player that was on the board. Scouts compared him to Nichushkin and in June was projected anywhere from 9th to 24th in the draft via Hockey News and should develop into a top 6 winger in 3 or so years.

That to me is a head scratcher.

It isn't a secret when a guy knows he wants to test the UFA market either
- YuenglingJagr

Yep, that too.

Sundqvist was never going to be anything that couldn't be had for cheap in FA. He was never going to amount to more than a 4C. His point production was lackluster in the AHL and likely would have been bad (or replaceable, easily) at an NHL level. The head scratcher is the number one ranked Euro player that was on the board. Scouts compared him to Nichushkin and in June was projected anywhere from 9th to 24th in the draft via Hockey News and should develop into a top 6 winger in 3 or so years.

That to me is a head scratcher.
- j.boyd919

Do you remember when we made the reeves trade?

Were we on the clock? or was it in picks earlier? I think that makes a big difference on how you judge the trade.

The value in the 20 picks we fell in the draft isn't much. Sundqvist as you said looks like repleacement level UFA signing. Enough guys are high on kostin that I question the trade if we were on the clock, but if it was well before then the reasoning makes more sense on moving the pick. In any other year we traded a 2nd round pick for a 2nd round pcik.

When Jakey isn't killing the NHL opposition, he's mopping up the summer beer leagues too:

http://www.dabeautyleague...gue_instance_player_stats

Do you remember when we made the reeves trade?

Were we on the clock? or was it in picks earlier? I think that makes a big difference on how you judge the trade.

The value in the 20 picks we fell in the draft isn't much. Sundqvist as you said looks like repleacement level UFA signing. Enough guys are high on kostin that I question the trade if we were on the clock, but if it was well before then the reasoning makes more sense on moving the pick. In any other year we traded a 2nd round pick for a 2nd round pcik.
- sditulli

I'm actually not sure, I was on the ice playing hockey at the time of the trade, I got back to the locker room and just shook my head. But yeah, I'm aware of the value in picks, I just think that having an opportunity to draft the no. 1 ranked Euro skater is more valuable than one year of Ryan Reaves.

FWIW all the hype on kostin despite falling in the draft gives makes me remember espotito pick....a guy who fell and was the right call.

Do you remember when we made the reeves trade?

Were we on the clock? or was it in picks earlier? I think that makes a big difference on how you judge the trade.

The value in the 20 picks we fell in the draft isn't much. Sundqvist as you said looks like repleacement level UFA signing. Enough guys are high on kostin that I question the trade if we were on the clock, but if it was well before then the reasoning makes more sense on moving the pick. In any other year we traded a 2nd round pick for a 2nd round pcik.
- sditulli

Thats right...and Reaves will have much more of an impact than Sundqvist ever would for the Pens. Soooo for me its a big whatever. I think with Reaves speed he'll do just fine with the Pens and some who hated on acquiring him will end up liking him.

Do you remember when we made the reeves trade?

Were we on the clock? or was it in picks earlier? I think that makes a big difference on how you judge the trade.

The value in the 20 picks we fell in the draft isn't much. Sundqvist as you said looks like repleacement level UFA signing. Enough guys are high on kostin that I question the trade if we were on the clock, but if it was well before then the reasoning makes more sense on moving the pick. In any other year we traded a 2nd round pick for a 2nd round pcik.
- sditulli

Pittsburgh was on the clock with the 31st pick when the trade happened...i.e. Nashville had already taken Tolvanen. They chose Reaves and trading back over Kostin

FWIW all the hype on kostin despite falling in the draft gives makes me remember espotito pick....a guy who fell and was the right call.
- sditulli

Yeah you just dont know and there's also the Russian factor which also adds to the you just dont know...

I'm actually not sure, I was on the ice playing hockey at the time of the trade, I got back to the locker room and just shook my head. But yeah, I'm aware of the value in picks, I just think that having an opportunity to draft the no. 1 ranked Euro skater is more valuable than one year of Ryan Reaves.
- j.boyd919

translation: I was sitting on the couch, drinking some beer and watching ET

translation: I was sitting on the couch, drinking some beer and watching ET
- DeflatedPucks

I prefer bourbon.

Yeah you just dont know and there's also the Russian factor which also adds to the you just dont know...
- MattStrat

The factor that he is actually Russian or the stupid ideology that the media has created about Russian born players?

Because you're giving up assets when you don't have to. The same reason it's foolish to trade for UFA rights prior to free agency. There's no guarantee he's even interested in your team, so why trade for his rights if he's not interested? You could just wait until he's a free agent and show t hat you're very serious. It's bad asset management.
- j.boyd919

Please read and understand before replying.... Conditional pick... Like I went on to say you only give that up if a deal is signed which is well worth it not to have to wait or contend with 10 other teams. As well it would be worth it for the avs to. Talking about asset management with a low 6th round pick for a kid thats highly valued is beyond silly. A 6th round low pick has UNDER a 1% chance of playing 100 NHL games in his career.... Give me a break about that hahaha

As for not knowing if hes even interested Ryan wrote about this already and his agent said regarding the penguins, "If they happen to call, Im sure wed answer the phone."
In 2 other comments which help the pens case... “That’s not what we’re looking to hear — that you can step right in,” Bartlett said. “Will’s a very grounded and bright kid.
“It’s not who can get him there the fastest. It’s really who’s got a plan for him to be an NHL player for a long time if he puts in the work.”

To me the risk is VERY minimal and the reward is VERY high. Not saying he 100% would sign in those 2 weeks but why not try!? I know for a fact when I played and talked to my friends and teammates who signed in Junior A hockey and college Div 1 over the 5 years, being wanted and teams doing extra little things like this was a MASSIVE help in deciding where I signed as well as about 75% of my teammates and friends.

The factor that he is actually Russian or the stupid ideology that the media has created about Russian born players?
- j.boyd919

No. Its the opinion I've formed myself from watching hockey for 30 years and noticing that a lot of times Russian players dont work out. Quite often they dont even end up coming to the NHL at all or if they do make it are very talented but only give 75% effort on a good night.

I know there are exceptions. We are blessed to have one of the best Russians of all time on the Pens. I feel very fortunate to of been able to watch Ovi play so many times.

You ever notice how there's hardly any 3rd or 4th liner Russians?

No. Its the opinion I've formed myself from watching hockey for 30 years and noticing that a lot of times Russian players dont work out. Quite often they dont even end up coming to the NHL at all or if they do make it are very talented but only give 75% effort on a good night.

I know there are exceptions. We are blessed to have one of the best Russians of all time on the Pens. I feel very fortunate to of been able to watch Ovi play so many times.

You ever notice how there's hardly any 3rd or 4th liner Russians?
- MattStrat

- YuenglingJagr

No. Its the opinion I've formed myself from watching hockey for 30 years and noticing that a lot of times Russian players dont work out. Quite often they dont even end up coming to the NHL at all or if they do make it are very talented but only give 75% effort on a good night.

I know there are exceptions. We are blessed to have one of the best Russians of all time on the Pens. I feel very fortunate to of been able to watch Ovi play so many times.

You ever notice how there's hardly any 3rd or 4th liner Russians?
- MattStrat

I don't believe in the whole effort thing. All players efforts ebb and flow. Every player has nights where they give bad effort. There are tons of reasons why there aren't as many Russians in the NHL. Euro scouting was more costly in the past, for one (although slightly easier now due to the internet.) And the lack of Euro scouts in the past have flooded the NHL with North American skaters, thus giving the perception of a style of hockey that the NHL is "supposed to be." Good ole' Canadian Hockey. So, a lot of Russians don't get picked because GMs pigeon hole their idea of what their team should be constructed like and if the Russians don't fit that mold, or acclimate they are (frank)ed.



If we go by these numbers there are 500k more players to choose from in Canada, 440k more players in USA, making 900 players to look at. Strategically you have a larger talent pool with easier travel, making scouting in NA much easier. It doesn't have anything to do with a Russian factor, it's because those guys aren't given the chance like NA skaters.