Hey John,

Good stuff as usual and I have heard the same, but from those who usually sell about 1/2 their games. Tickets have been up for sale for awhile, but one person told me he has only sold one game.

At some point this was going to happen, but the Hawks don't want the slack demand to come all at once. The red flag was up for me when the TV #'s were mention to be done 22% from the peak.

You can justify a dip, but this organization is built on 21,000+ to be there every night. Even if the tickets are sold but only 18-19k fans show up that is a significant loss of revenue.

The script is there for all to see-Watch the lower bowl, when those seats stay empty, and season ticket holders can't give them away, trouble follows. That's what the front office is hoping won't happen.
- Al

Few people get to the bottom line like Signor Alberto.

Great write up JJ. I have had Hawk season tickets three different times since the late 70's. The last time, I had them since 2006-7. 16 grand for two regular seasoon seats and then another outlay for the playoff tickets is a ton of dough. Over those seasons that's probably in the neighborhood of 150 grand, give or take 20k.

I never asked for anything from my account rep. They always ask politely can I do anything for you. Well two years ago I said sure and asked for an autographed puck from #4. She said I can't do that it is against policy. She said I could enter a drawing to win something along those lines. That really peaved me off. You can't give me a $5 puck!!!

I was going to write a stinging letter to Rocky about this alleged policy and congratulate him on his success on the rise to the top and how his organization is now forgetting the little people. And, I was going to say that the decline that is on the horizon will have them begging and giving away much more than pucks to get people to sign up for tickets. I never wrote the letter because I'm not begging for anything. I did not renew for the 2017-2018 and have not regreted that decision.
Instead, I am enjoying my 2017 Harley Ultra Limited.

I'm a pissed off die hard, but still a big fan. From here forward, I'll be watching from my recliner. If they are playing like crap, I'll find another form of entertainment for my money and my time.

Great write up JJ and this response is right on. I have had Hawk season tickets three different times since the late 70's. The last time, I had them since 2006-7. 16 grand for two regular seasoon seats and then another outlay for the playoff tickets is a ton of dough. Over those seasons that's probably in the neighborhood of 150 grand, give or take 20k.

I never asked for anything from my account rep. They always ask politely can I do anything for you. Well two years ago I said sure and asked for an autographed puck from #4. She said I can't do that it is against policy. She said I could enter a drawing to win something along those lines. That really peaved me off. You can't give me a $5 puck!!!

I was going to write a stinging letter to Rocky about this alleged policy and congratulate him on his success on the rise to the top and how his organization is now forgetting the little people. And, I was going to say that the decline that is on the horizon will have them begging and giving away much more than pucks to get people to sign up for tickets. I never wrote the letter because I'm not begging for anything. I did not renew for the 2017-2018 and have not regreted that decision.
Instead, I am enjoying my 2017 Harley Ultra Limited.

I'm a pissed off die hard, but still a big fan. From here forward, I'll be watching from my recliner. If they are playing like crap, I'll find another form of entertainment for my money and my time.
- isu83boo

This blog incorporates a lot of fans of all stripes. Having been a Hawk fan since 1969, I have always identified with the long-term STH/diehards who stuck with this team through the dark years, before the "renaissance" started ten years ago.

Having lived outside Chicago for most of my adult life, i have not ever been a STH, but I totally understand the mentality. We are a cynical lot.

The team is at a crossroads because they ask a lot in terms of $$ from STH's and corporate sponsors, but now because the product has slipped, the team's bills are coming due.

The Hawks have some smart people in both business and hockey roles. And the core that remains should still form the basis of a competitive team. Bowman did a lot of good financial work this summer—the hockey results remain to be seen.

Interesting to see how it plays out. T

This blog incorporates a lot of fans of all stripes. Having been a Hawk fan since 1969, I have always identified with the long-term STH/diehards who stuck with this team through the dark years, before the "renaissance" started ten years ago.

Having lived outside Chicago for most of my adult life, i have not ever been a STH, but I totally understand the mentality. We are a cynical lot.

The team is at a crossroads because they ask a lot in terms of $$ from STH's and corporate sponsors, but now because the product has slipped, the team's bills are coming due.

The Hawks have some smart people in both business and hockey roles. And the core that remains should still form the basis of a competitive team. Bowman did a lot of good financial work this summer—the hockey results remain to be seen.

Interesting to see how it plays out. T
- John Jaeckel

The Hawks have some smart people in both business and hockey roles. And the core that remains should still form the basis of a competitive team. Bowman did a lot of good financial work this summer—the hockey results remain to be seen.

Correct-and this is a different situation than in many cities now and in past organizations. There was a tremendous amount of success here in a short time by basically younger players. Plus there are at least 4 HOF players on the roster now if you count Hossa, and if they win another Cup within next 2-3 years that number could grow.

There can't be a sink and dunp game plan and let's start all over again. So what we are seeing is what will keep happening until the skills of the key core players have diminished. It's not the end of playoff hockey, unless injuries happen in waves.

I'm looking forward to watching it play out but 3 Cups in a short span of time could be a once in a lifetime experience.

Is anyone sold on Debrincat? I know this guy was a scoring machine, but it scares me that he was left off of the US World Junior team. They didn't like something??
- Boisy12

I think, like with any prospect, we have to wait and see. I like him, but he likely needs another season in minors. But I think he will eventually make the big team and play fairly well. Kane, Keith, Toews, Seabrook, Hammer, Hossa....they were all prospects at one time. Some hit, some don't...for all 31 teams. It's the nature of the beast. But I prefer to wait and see him play some before saying he is too small or too slow or too this and that.

What is the story with Pat Foley being let go?
- hockey nut 28

Wait, what?? Honestly, I wouldn't mind it at all but this is news to me.

The Hawks have some smart people in both business and hockey roles. And the core that remains should still form the basis of a competitive team. Bowman did a lot of good financial work this summer—the hockey results remain to be seen.

Correct-and this is a different situation than in many cities now and in past organizations. There was a tremendous amount of success here in a short time by basically younger players. Plus there are at least 4 HOF players on the roster now if you count Hossa, and if they win another Cup within next 2-3 years that number could grow.

There can't be a sink and dunp game plan and let's start all over again. So what we are seeing is what will keep happening until the skills of the key core players have diminished. It's not the end of playoff hockey, unless injuries happen in waves.

I'm looking forward to watching it play out but 3 Cups in a short span of time could be a once in a lifetime experience.
- Al

Like I've been saying all summer, this was a retool on the fly, not the beginning of a rebuild.

IMO, there are a few critical factors in the success of this retool.

1) Keith at 34. Unless there is a degenerative issue with his knee, he should have at least 2 prime seasns left—based on the kind of native athlete he is
2) Toews, does the full summer of RnR and getting Saad back on is left re-ignite his game and get him back to the Toews of 2007-15. He is only 29.
3) Murphy and Kempny, one or both of these guys need to step up this year, maybe not right away, but by the latter half of the season. The physical ability is there. It will come down to what's between their ears, coaching and TOI. Maybe add Forsling in here as well but he feels further away developmentally.
4) Chemistry up and down the roster. Q needs to be patient and creative. Dineen and Ulfie need to teach.
5) Health. You want guys like Murphy, Kempny, Forsberg, Schmaltz to grow in the right roles, not to overwhelm them because they had to be overchallenged due to injuries in guys ahead of them.

If these things happen, if what Bowman was envisioning 9and I do believe he had a specific list of attributes he was looking for this summer—not just dumpingf salary), then this team could still come out of the West and Bowman and Q are up for postseason honors.

That's the high side. if it all fails, then it's a different conversation.

Thoughts on what Wennberg's RFA rights would cost via trade?

Been awhile.....

This soft ticket market shouldn't surprise anyone. You have a very fickle demographic that isn't a core hockey fan. They are a group that all 5 teams in town fight over.....whatever is coolest or IN is what they gravitate towards. Right now it's the Cubs.

You also have an organization who keeps tabs on secondary markets and has zero qualms raising prices every year to maximize their ticket revenue. They will continue to do so until that market pops.

The team itself is starting on the back 9......Keith, Seabrook are older and showing signs of breaking down. Hossa is gone. Trying to maximize a return on a retread like Oduya and Versteeg and now Sharp is a dangerous game. All on the cheap, as they hope they can find younger, cost controlled pieces to supplement familiar faces.

I don't think you can pencil this team as a sure lock for the postseason just as you can't say they will miss the playoffs. It's somewhere in between. Lots of ifs....keiths hell, toews production, Crawford holding the workload, murphy being a consistent top 4 d man, and then hoping toads with warts blossom into hockey princes like Frosling or Kempny or Rutta.

Luckily for the Hawks the Bulls and Bears, their winter competition, are still steps behind but the NFL and NBA have more star power that can lure a guy to take his family to a game in the NFL or NBA then watch good young players, that the casual sports fan has NO clue who they are.

Been awhile.....

This soft ticket market shouldn't surprise anyone. You have a very fickle demographic that isn't a core hockey fan. They are a group that all 5 teams in town fight over.....whatever is coolest or IN is what they gravitate towards. Right now it's the Cubs.

You also have an organization who keeps tabs on secondary markets and has zero qualms raising prices every year to maximize their ticket revenue. They will continue to do so until that market pops.

The team itself is starting on the back 9......Keith, Seabrook are older and showing signs of breaking down. Hossa is gone. Trying to maximize a return on a retread like Oduya and Versteeg and now Sharp is a dangerous game. All on the cheap, as they hope they can find younger, cost controlled pieces to supplement familiar faces.

I don't think you can pencil this team as a sure lock for the postseason just as you can't say they will miss the playoffs. It's somewhere in between. Lots of ifs....keiths hell, toews production, Crawford holding the workload, murphy being a consistent top 4 d man, and then hoping toads with warts blossom into hockey princes like Frosling or Kempny or Rutta.

Luckily for the Hawks the Bulls and Bears, their winter competition, are still steps behind but the NFL and NBA have more star power that can lure a guy to take his family to a game in the NFL or NBA then watch good young players, that the casual sports fan has NO clue who they are.
- SteveRain

The Hawks will get a little more attention because the others-Bulls-Bears won't be good most likely. But this is a different dynamic and it's 41+ and the tickets are expensive.

In my view the main issue is there a lot of 200-300 level season tickets in weak hands. Many people bought 4 instead of 2 tickets knowing they could sell them and make their money and big dollars in the playoffs. I'm sure you know people who go to maybe half the games now and can't afford the seats unless they can always sell games. That's the danger which could start a quick slide if Hawks bow out early in the playoffs again or don't make the dance at all.


Interestingly the light bulb went off with the Sox and their crowds have been better even though their record is poor. I see they have gone to the same strategy Bill Wirtz did with the $7 tickets....That was the best marketing ploy WWW ever had with student discounts and $7-300 level seats.

If the Hawks don't suffer key injuries and lose important players to lengthy injuries they should make the playoffs. I would worry wbout the possibility of Toews and Seabrook having chronic back issues plus Keith's knee not being the same. If all of that comes into play it could be a very long winter and a short spring.

Hey John,

Good stuff as usual and I have heard the same, but from those who usually sell about 1/2 their games. Tickets have been up for sale for awhile, but one person told me he has only sold one game.

At some point this was going to happen, but the Hawks don't want the slack demand to come all at once. The red flag was up for me when the TV #'s were reported to be down 22% from the peak.

You can justify a dip, but this organization is built on 21,000+ to be there every night. Even if the tickets are sold but only 18-19k fans show up that is a significant loss of revenue.

The script is there for all to see-Watch the lower bowl, when those seats stay empty, and season ticket holders can't give them away, trouble follows. That's what the front office is hoping won't happen.
- Al

It's a pretty big corporate crowd down there. That and the big money people cause its "a thing". And to be fair, unless its some charity auction or corporate event, going to the games is pretty meh. I can have a meal, get a buzz and leave the bartender at a local establishment a nice tip for half (depending on what I'm drinking) of what I would spend at the stadium. And without having to cross a major intersection walking or drive or bus or whatever.

However, if the Cubs continue to stall and STL continues their tear, they could be out of the playoffs which may give the Hawks an early boost if they don't get smoked the first 5 games which is not outside the realm of possibilities.

What is the story with Pat Foley being let go?
- hockey nut 28

Anyone have a link with this info? I can't find anything showing this.

It's a pretty big corporate crowd down there. That and the big money people cause its "a thing". And to be fair, unless its some charity auction or corporate event, going to the games is pretty meh. I can have a meal, get a buzz and leave the bartender at a local establishment a nice tip for half (depending on what I'm drinking) of what I would spend at the stadium. And without having to cross a major intersection walking or drive or bus or whatever.

However, if the Cubs continue to stall and STL continues their tear, they could be out of the playoffs which may give the Hawks an early boost if they don't get smoked the first 5 games which is not outside the realm of possibilities.
- fattybeef

They wont get smoked....they have captain America of the USA worlds F team roster on their team now.

No need to panic.......

Great write up JJ. I have had Hawk season tickets three different times since the late 70's. The last time, I had them since 2006-7. 16 grand for two regular seasoon seats and then another outlay for the playoff tickets is a ton of dough. Over those seasons that's probably in the neighborhood of 150 grand, give or take 20k.

I never asked for anything from my account rep. They always ask politely can I do anything for you. Well two years ago I said sure and asked for an autographed puck from #4. She said I can't do that it is against policy. She said I could enter a drawing to win something along those lines. That really peaved me off. You can't give me a $5 puck!!!

I was going to write a stinging letter to Rocky about this alleged policy and congratulate him on his success on the rise to the top and how his organization is now forgetting the little people. And, I was going to say that the decline that is on the horizon will have them begging and giving away much more than pucks to get people to sign up for tickets. I never wrote the letter because I'm not begging for anything. I did not renew for the 2017-2018 and have not regreted that decision.
Instead, I am enjoying my 2017 Harley Ultra Limited.

I'm a pissed off die hard, but still a big fan. From here forward, I'll be watching from my recliner. If they are playing like crap, I'll find another form of entertainment for my money and my time.
- isu83boo

By recliner do you mean the Harley?

I ride too (Moto Guzzi - something about those Italian birds ) and having cash for a road trip or new mirrors or a dope custom paint job on the tank or new pipes or bars or headlight or shocks or tires is better spent IMO.

What is the story with Pat Foley being let go?
- hockey nut 28

Hadn't heard that, but it gives me an excuse to post this again. it never gets old ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iviLY1RvNc

Hadn't heard that, but it gives me an excuse to post this again. it never gets old ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iviLY1RvNc
- Hank_Greenberg

In the end, whether it’s bringing back the once-exiled Pat Foley to call the games,



This is the sentence that made you think that. Don't more of it than it is.

I had to read it twice myself.

Hadn't heard that, but it gives me an excuse to post this again. it never gets old ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iviLY1RvNc
- Hank_Greenberg

Maybe hockeynut was referring to the 2006 divorce with dollar bill.

But I'd have a hard time believing that a Hockey Hall of Fame Broadcaster would be let go. I know Pat isn't what he once was, but still the voice of the Hawks for over what 30 years. And I for one loved when he ripped the league the other year about the bogus late starts by the league office in the playoffs.

Maybe hockeynut was referring to the 2006 divorce with dollar bill.

But I'd have a hard time believing that a Hockey Hall of Fame Broadcaster would be let go. I know Pat isn't what he once was, but still the voice of the Hawks for over what 30 years. And I for one loved when he ripped the league the other year about the bogus late starts by the league office in the playoffs.
- DK002

The intent of the line of the blog was to allude to when Foley was exiled years ago, before he was brought back.

So will this season's Pred's be more like the White Sox after the 2005 series win....or more like the Cubs with good young players...after last season's win? Basically...were they a one year wonder last year that just jelled perfectly come playoff time? Or are they a really strong contender to win the cup this year? And by the way, I am a White Sox fan so no disrespect to any Cubs/Sox fans here.

Does anyone have access to the ESPN Cory Pronman Top 100 prospects rankings that just were published. Curious how many we have on there

Does anyone have access to the ESPN Cory Pronman Top 100 prospects rankings that just were published. Curious how many we have on there
- Marylandhawkfan

I laughed when I saw the Blackhawks top prospect on this list:

50. Alex DeBrincat, RW, Chicago Blackhawks
DOB: 12/18/97 | Ht: 5' 7" | Wt: 165
2016-17 stats, Erie (OHL): 63 GP | 65 G | 62 A
Projected 2017-18 team: Rockford (AHL)
DeBrincat continues to put up points in giant bunches. He led the OHL in goals and points and led the OHL playoffs in scoring. There is a lot to love about his game. He has high-end puck skills, plays with fast pace, and has a fantastic shot. The issue for me isn't DeBrincat's 5-foot-7 frame, it is whether he's a good enough skater for that 5-foot-7 frame. To his credit, he battles well and wins more pucks than his frame suggests. His OHL resume suggests a top-end prospect, but when I've seen him at NHL and world junior camps, I haven't seen the same player show up.

59. Henri Jokiharju, D, Chicago Blackhawks
DOB: 6/17/99 | Ht: 5' 11.75" | Wt: 180
2016-17 stats, Portland (WHL): 71 GP | 9 G | 39 A
Projected 2017-18 team: Portland (WHL)
Jokiharju is a great skater, and is a smart, two-way defenseman who can dictate tempo and move the puck efficiently. I don't think his skill is top-end level, but he's going to be able to rack up a lot of points thanks to his vision, feet and decision-making. Despite not being a big guy, Jokiharju is quite effective defensively because he's very smart with his positional play.

That’s all.
None in the honorable mention either.

Does anyone have access to the ESPN Cory Pronman Top 100 prospects rankings that just were published. Curious how many we have on there
- Marylandhawkfan

nothing in the 22 honorable mention or top 24 goalies. We have a bottom 5 group of prospects IMO. Joki is the 14th best D prospect. I'm not high on debrinct you can't be a net front type of player in the NHL at 5'7 160 lbs and slow. I hope on wrong. Joki, Crys, Snuggy all being good skaters, I feel like we might be deeper at D now then OFF.



50. Alex DeBrincat, RW, Chicago Blackhawks
DOB: 12/18/97 | Ht: 5' 7" | Wt: 165
2016-17 stats, Erie (OHL): 63 GP | 65 G | 62 A
Projected 2017-18 team: Rockford (AHL)

DeBrincat continues to put up points in giant bunches. He led the OHL in goals and points and led the OHL playoffs in scoring. There is a lot to love about his game. He has high-end puck skills, plays with fast pace, and has a fantastic shot. The issue for me isn't DeBrincat's 5-foot-7 frame, it is whether he's a good enough skater for that 5-foot-7 frame. To his credit, he battles well and wins more pucks than his frame suggests. His OHL resume suggests a top-end prospect, but when I've seen him at NHL and world junior camps, I haven't seen the same player show up.




59. Henri Jokiharju, D, Chicago Blackhawks
DOB: 6/17/99 | Ht: 5' 11.75" | Wt: 180
2016-17 stats, Portland (WHL): 71 GP | 9 G | 39 A
Projected 2017-18 team: Portland (WHL)

Jokiharju is a great skater, and is a smart, two-way defenseman who can dictate tempo and move the puck efficiently. I don't think his skill is top-end level, but he's going to be able to rack up a lot of points thanks to his vision, feet and decision-making. Despite not being a big guy, Jokiharju is quite effective defensively because he's very smart with his positional play.

The Hawks will get a little more attention because the others-Bulls-Bears won't be good most likely. But this is a different dynamic and it's 41+ and the tickets are expensive.

In my view the main issue is there a lot of 200-300 level season tickets in weak hands. Many people bought 4 instead of 2 tickets knowing they could sell them and make their money and big dollars in the playoffs. I'm sure you know people who go to maybe half the games now and can't afford the seats unless they can always sell games. That's the danger which could start a quick slide if Hawks bow out early in the playoffs again or don't make the dance at all.


Interestingly the light bulb went off with the Sox and their crowds have been better even though their record is poor. I see they have gone to the same strategy Bill Wirtz did with the $7 tickets....That was the best marketing ploy WWW ever had with student discounts and $7-300 level seats.

If the Hawks don't suffer key injuries and lose important players to lengthy injuries they should make the playoffs. I would worry wbout the possibility of Toews and Seabrook having chronic back issues plus Keith's knee not being the same. If all of that comes into play it could be a very long winter and a short spring.
- Al

I can't speak for all, but me personally....when I see a franchise admit a plan isn't working and rebuild, smartly I appreciate it. its the continual patch work job on a sinking ship that drives me crazy. Bulls are the prime example of this and why I refuse to follow the NBA at all.

I sit in the 300 level....prices when we first committed where affordable. Now you are looking at 3 figures and that's just pure greed IMO. I get it from the Hawks perspective, but you also go against your supposed commitment to get youth in the stands. The get in price to a Hawks game for a family 4 with parking is almost $500. that's before concessions and buying the kids a souviner. How many people have that disposable income?

I love hockey, still play it, but I also realize that when I show up to Canlan in Romeoville I understand full well the financial and time commitment these parents are making. The NHL really needs to look at a program to get athletes on ice. A few of my Canadian customers always tell me about programs up there......

The intent of the line of the blog was to allude to when Foley was exiled years ago, before he was brought back.
- John Jaeckel

Foley could leave tomorrow and I wouldn't bat an eye. I feel he hinders Eddie Os ability to be a smart fan's analyst that we see far too often on the national games.

Instead on CSN or WGN he's talking about ice cream or other BS. I grew up with Foley and Tallon and will always cherish those days, but that foley never returned.....instead we got a morphed Harry Caray version which is damn near unlistenable.

It's a pretty big corporate crowd down there. That and the big money people cause its "a thing". And to be fair, unless its some charity auction or corporate event, going to the games is pretty meh. I can have a meal, get a buzz and leave the bartender at a local establishment a nice tip for half (depending on what I'm drinking) of what I would spend at the stadium. And without having to cross a major intersection walking or drive or bus or whatever.

However, if the Cubs continue to stall and STL continues their tear, they could be out of the playoffs which may give the Hawks an early boost if they don't get smoked the first 5 games which is not outside the realm of possibilities.
- fattybeef

Correct and when those corporate types can't give away seats with any bang in return...They don't stick around all that long.

As you may know when the UC opened they set an NHL average attendance record, about 3 years later I had troubke giving away 4 great 200 level seats with parking.

Actually I gave them to young guy who worked for me and after taking them 3 times I asked him again and he was reluctant so I asked why...

He explained he would need to go home and pick up his wife and another couple and would have no time to eat before he went to the game. So although the seats were free, with a few hot dogs and a few beers it was getting costly.

He was a nice guy and wasn't making a bunch of dough so I asked him if that was the only reason he didn't want to go-He said yes, so I handed him the tickets and $40.

That was 96-97 and the next year I didn't renew-Granted they were awful at the time but things can change and it doesn't take too long.