I grew up in the 80's, and I'll take the fivesome of Kerr, Propp, Poulin, McCrimmon, and Howe any day. Man, they were so good.

I was at Bobby Clarke night, and it was so loud I got a pounding headache after just a few minutes. Interestingly, if I remember correctly, both Kevin Dineen and Joel Quennville played in the game that followed (for Hartford vs. the Flyers).
- copelal

Those guys with Hexy were incredible. They ushered in my conversion to Flyer's Fandom! Loved Howe's game. I think top 5 all time. I saw Orr play. Lidstrom 2nd and a whole bunch can go after that but Howe is right there. Not raw numbers maybe but he was so good, so smooth, could play shut down and had the best wrister in the game.

The 80s, yes... when the Flyers reached the Cup Finals three times, once with Clarke as a still-important player (and assistant coach to Pat Quinn) and the other two as a GM. Or the 90s when he was GM of North Stars and the Flyers teams that reached the Finals and two other Flyers teams that reached the conference finals. Or the early 2000s with two more Flyers GMs that fell just one win short -- in 2-1 finals in Game 7 both times -- of getting back to the Cup Finals.

As a player, Clarke's Flyers went at least to the SC semis six straight years (1973 to 1978), the Cup Finals three straight years (1974 to 1976) and won the Cup back-to-back years (1974 and 1975). Oh, and they dominated the Red Army in Jan. 1976 after no other NHL team including the Canadiens (tie) had beaten them during their tour of North America.

Yeah, Clarke was a real disgrace as a player and a terrible GM. Just awful. Now go back in your troll hovel.
- bmeltzer

If I could read any post in mid-August after being away from here for about 5 days, I'm glad it was this post.

Thanks for everything, Bill! You rock!

If I could read any post in mid-August after being away from here for about 5 days, I'm glad it was this post.

Thanks for everything, Bill! You rock!
- johndewar

Some things are simply known:

The Rangers suck
single malt scotch is the finest of liquors
and
Bill Meltzer provides the best Flyer's coverage on the planet

Those guys with Hexy were incredible. They ushered in my conversion to Flyer's Fandom! Loved Howe's game. I think top 5 all time. I saw Orr play. Lidstrom 2nd and a whole bunch can go after that but Howe is right there. Not raw numbers maybe but he was so good, so smooth, could play shut down and had the best wrister in the game.
- jaws1955

I never got to see those mid-80's teams, or see Howe play live.

That said, I don't know if I'd go top-5. I think the top 3 should be Orr, Lidstrom, and Bourque. After that, you have Potvin, Robinson, and Pronger, guys who could impose their will at any facet of the game. After that is where the guys like Howe, Leetch, MacInnis, and Niedermayer fall. Being a top-10/top-15 all time best defender (from my mostly unbiased perspective) isn't a bad thing.

Also, this doesn't take into account pre-expansion guys like Harvey, Shore, or Horton (who played a few years after expansion).

I never got to see those mid-80's teams, or see Howe play live.

That said, I don't know if I'd go top-5. I think the top 3 should be Orr, Lidstrom, and Bourque. After that, you have Potvin, Robinson, and Pronger, guys who could impose their will at any facet of the game. After that is where the guys like Howe, Leetch, MacInnis, and Niedermayer fall. Being a top-10/top-15 all time best defender (from my mostly unbiased perspective) isn't a bad thing.

Also, this doesn't take into account pre-expansion guys like Harvey, Shore, or Horton (who played a few years after expansion).
- jmatchett383

Howe was an amazing all around Dman. The Flyers were night and day depending if he was on the ice. He is definitely in my top 10 overall Dmen that I was privileged to see play. The list pretty much covers anyone who played from 1970 on:

Here we go!

Just missed the cut:
Brad Park
Rod Langway
Zdeno Chara
Erik Karlsson
Drew Doughty

10. Al MacInnis
An offensive powerhouse, he had an overpowering shot and was underrated defensively

9. Paul Coffey
A pure offensive machine who's only comparable when it comes to offense is Bobby Orr. However his many defensive shortcomings weighed against him when making this list

8. Chris Pronger
Pronger had the rare ability to control a game with his smarts, win a game with his skills and terrorize an opponent with his glare and mean streak. He was a prototypical #1 Dman in any era

7. Scott Niedermayer
Niedermayer could do it all, both offensively and defensively and was the first Dman a coach would put on the ice in every situation.

6. Mark Howe
Howe was, IMO, the best two way Dman in the league in the mid 80s. The combination of exceptional skating, world class skill and off the charts hockey sense made him one of the all time greats. The only knocks against him was that his slight frame led to frequent injury

5. Larry Robinson
One of the great Habs Dmen of all time and that is saying a lot. Robinson could beat with you with skill or muscle and he was the #1 guy on a team that simply dominated the NHL in the late 70s and he was still a top pair guy on the 86 cup team at the age of 35.

next up, the top 4!

And now, the top 4 dmen that I ever saw (this is what you get when you accidently hit "enter" LOL)

4. Denis Potvin
Potvin was a great skater, had off the chart skills and was tough as nails. He was the driving force behind the Isles team that won 4 straight Cups from 80-83. I hated him with a passion as he often seemed to save his best games for when he played the FLyers, but deep down, I just wished he had played for us.

3. Ray Bourque
If you went back to year one in NHL history, 1917, Bourque would still make the list of the top 10 Dmen of all time. He was that good. Bourque was simply a force in all 3 zones and I was thrilled to see him finally win a Cup in 2001.

2. Nick Lidstrom
IMO, it's a tossup between Lidstrom and Doug Harvey for the 2nd best NHL Dman of all time. Lidstrom could completely control a game like no other player in his era and I honestly cannot remember ever seeing this guy make a bad play. The Red Wings were able to remain a top team even after losing guys like Yzerman, Shanahan and Federov because they had Lidstrom playing 27-28 minutes every night. Conversely, since he retired, the Red Wings immediately fell back with the rest of the pack

1. Bobby Orr
Bobby Orr wasn't just the best skater of his era, in his prime, he may have been the best skater in league history. What made him even scarier was what he could do with the puck while skating at top speed. He completed dominated games when he was on the ice. He's not just the best Dman I ever saw, but in his prime, he was simply the best player I ever saw. He revolutionized his position and paved the way for the offensive Dmen of today.

Talking about Raymond Bourque makes me miss Gary Thorne quite a bit

Howe was an amazing all around Dman. The Flyers were night and day depending if he was on the ice. He is definitely in my top 10 overall Dmen that I was privileged to see play. The list pretty much covers anyone who played from 1970 on:

Here we go!

Just missed the cut:
Brad Park
Rod Langway
Zdeno Chara
Erik Karlsson
Drew Doughty

10. Al MacInnis
An offensive powerhouse, he had an overpowering shot and was underrated defensively

9. Paul Coffey
A pure offensive machine who's only comparable when it comes to offense is Bobby Orr. However his many defensive shortcomings weighed against him when making this list

8. Chris Pronger
Pronger had the rare ability to control a game with his smarts, win a game with his skills and terrorize an opponent with his glare and mean streak. He was a prototypical #1 Dman in any era

7. Scott Niedermayer
Niedermayer could do it all, both offensively and defensively and was the first Dman a coach would put on the ice in every situation.

6. Mark Howe
Howe was, IMO, the best two way Dman in the league in the mid 80s. The combination of exceptional skating, world class skill and off the charts hockey sense made him one of the all time greats. The only knocks against him was that his slight frame led to frequent injury

5. Larry Robinson
One of the great Habs Dmen of all time and that is saying a lot. Robinson could beat with you with skill or muscle and he was the #1 guy on a team that simply dominated the NHL in the late 70s and he was still a top pair guy on the 86 cup team at the age of 35.

next up, the top 4!
- BiggE

That's a who's who of Dman.

Where does Chris Chelios and scot Stevens fall on your list?

7. Scott Niedermayer
Niedermayer could do it all, both offensively and defensively and was the first Dman a coach would put on the ice in every situation.



next up, the top 4!
- BiggE

Really? you sure about that?

Bill,

Just wondering if you know/have any feeling if the Flyers might have any interest in any of the unsigned guys(Butcher, Kerfoot) that will be FA tomorrow.

And now, the top 4 dmen that I ever saw (this is what you get when you accidently hit "enter" LOL)

4. Denis Potvin
Potvin was a great skater, had off the chart skills and was tough as nails. He was the driving force behind the Isles team that won 4 straight Cups from 80-83. I hated him with a passion as he often seemed to save his best games for when he played the FLyers, but deep down, I just wished he had played for us.

3. Ray Bourque
If you went back to year one in NHL history, 1917, Bourque would still make the list of the top 10 Dmen of all time. He was that good. Bourque was simply a force in all 3 zones and I was thrilled to see him finally win a Cup in 2001.

2. Nick Lidstrom
IMO, it's a tossup between Lidstrom and Doug Harvey for the 2nd best NHL Dman of all time. Lidstrom could completely control a game like no other player in his era and I honestly cannot remember ever seeing this guy make a bad play. The Red Wings were able to remain a top team even after losing guys like Yzerman, Shanahan and Federov because they had Lidstrom playing 27-28 minutes every night. Conversely, since he retired, the Red Wings immediately fell back with the rest of the pack

1. Bobby Orr
Bobby Orr wasn't just the best skater of his era, in his prime, he may have been the best skater in league history. What made him even scarier was what he could do with the puck while skating at top speed. He completed dominated games when he was on the ice. He's not just the best Dman I ever saw, but in his prime, he was simply the best player I ever saw. He revolutionized his position and paved the way for the offensive Dmen of today.
- BiggE

Not gonna argue with any of those. However, both you and I named Pronger in the 6-10 range.

Maybe in 10-15 years, once he becomes more blended with history, he may actually become a top-5/top-4. Again, I never saw Potvin play, but was he really that more of a complete player than Pronger. Probably a better skater, but we (Flyers fans) also got to see him play a lot more than Pronger. Pronger, to me, was probably the meanest, nastiest skilled player I've ever seen. Lindros was punishing and dirty, but Pronger pretty much didn't have a conscience on the ice. He didn't care if he hurt you or not. His skill defensively was as good as anyone who's ever played, and while he didn't put up numbers like Coffey, because he actually played a wonderful positional game, he was probably the best I've ever seen at generating shots from the point that got on net, and could also join the rush at ES.

I only watched him a lot during his 3 Cup runs and for his Flyers stint. And even though he was not in his prime, he was still a guy who could contend for the Norris. I think guys like Potvin become close to legendary over these last 25-30 years, and I feel the same may happen with Pronger.

Bill,

Just wondering if you know/have any feeling if the Flyers might have any interest in any of the unsigned guys(Butcher, Kerfoot) that will be FA tomorrow.
- J35Bacher

Jags

I mean, yes, he's not a guy who's gonna lead us to the Cup, and yes, he'd take a spot (at least a top-9 one)from a young guy...but the guy is a (frank)ing legend and is still a legit top-9 forward. Also, no one else in history besides possible Messier or Howe could impact a young lineup the way that he could.

And now, the top 4 dmen that I ever saw (this is what you get when you accidently hit "enter" LOL)

4. Denis Potvin
Potvin was a great skater, had off the chart skills and was tough as nails. He was the driving force behind the Isles team that won 4 straight Cups from 80-83. I hated him with a passion as he often seemed to save his best games for when he played the FLyers, but deep down, I just wished he had played for us.

3. Ray Bourque
If you went back to year one in NHL history, 1917, Bourque would still make the list of the top 10 Dmen of all time. He was that good. Bourque was simply a force in all 3 zones and I was thrilled to see him finally win a Cup in 2001.

2. Nick Lidstrom
IMO, it's a tossup between Lidstrom and Doug Harvey for the 2nd best NHL Dman of all time. Lidstrom could completely control a game like no other player in his era and I honestly cannot remember ever seeing this guy make a bad play. The Red Wings were able to remain a top team even after losing guys like Yzerman, Shanahan and Federov because they had Lidstrom playing 27-28 minutes every night. Conversely, since he retired, the Red Wings immediately fell back with the rest of the pack

1. Bobby Orr
Bobby Orr wasn't just the best skater of his era, in his prime, he may have been the best skater in league history. What made him even scarier was what he could do with the puck while skating at top speed. He completed dominated games when he was on the ice. He's not just the best Dman I ever saw, but in his prime, he was simply the best player I ever saw. He revolutionized his position and paved the way for the offensive Dmen of today.
- BiggE

The best defensemen I've seen live.

Nick Lidstrom (I've seen at least ten times)
Chris Pronger
Chris Chelios
Brian Rafalski
Kimmo Timonen
Eric Desjardins

Off the top of my head.

If I could read any post in mid-August after being away from here for about 5 days, I'm glad it was this post.

Thanks for everything, Bill! You rock!
- johndewar

I want to second this. I haven't been around much recently popped in this morning and read that post and was glad no beverage was being consumed at that time.

Been a rough couple of months and looking to get worse before it gets better for me so if I'm not around it's probably due to not wanting to lose my mind due to some posters. I may read but not reply often for a bit.