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Forums :: Blog World :: Ryan Wilson: Learning from zone entries
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Aussiepenguin
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Sydney
Joined: 08.02.2014

Aug 11 @ 11:03 PM ET
So puck possession isn't nearly as important as generating odd man breaks and breakout chances and having great players among the forward ranks to convert those chances.

Sounds pretty much exactly like the Penguins playoff run this year, especially the Caps series where the Penguins were supposedly thoroughly outplayed but made the most of the juicy opportunities they got.

- hardnosed


I believe analytics call that luck!
Aussiepenguin
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Sydney
Joined: 08.02.2014

Aug 11 @ 11:19 PM ET
At Matt about getting into the stats.

Micro stats are very different from the existing analytics. Current analytics take more out of a math formulae than 'actual' events (correct me if I'm wrong), where micro stats are people actually following the game & entering the actual event data from what they have seen. Micro stats can actually point to what leads to a goal & who was involved rather than just giving 'everyone' on the ice a positive point when a goal is scored - micro stats for me are more 'off the stick' stats as they are being correlated by people not math formulae.

The zone entries or what look more like break out or odd man rushes (to moi), in the video are correlated by people actually looking at this & counting & marking down events.

What I don't see in any of the video zone entries Gunner shows is where a team has defended with all players in their own zone & sending the puck outside their D zone then the attacking team bringing it back in with a full opposing team in front of them. Is the 4 or 6 second 'rule' still valid?

Micro stats are a truer indication of a game where as analytics in my opinion are not.
Le_Magnifique
Joined: 05.15.2016

Aug 12 @ 1:47 AM ET
At Matt about getting into the stats.

Micro stats are very different from the existing analytics. Current analytics take more out of a math formulae than 'actual' events (correct me if I'm wrong), where micro stats are people actually following the game & entering the actual event data from what they have seen. Micro stats can actually point to what leads to a goal & who was involved rather than just giving 'everyone' on the ice a positive point when a goal is scored - micro stats for me are more 'off the stick' stats as they are being correlated by people not math formulae.

The zone entries or what look more like break out or odd man rushes (to moi), in the video are correlated by people actually looking at this & counting & marking down events.

What I don't see in any of the video zone entries Gunner shows is where a team has defended with all players in their own zone & sending the puck outside their D zone then the attacking team bringing it back in with a full opposing team in front of them. Is the 4 or 6 second 'rule' still valid?

Micro stats are a truer indication of a game where as analytics in my opinion are not.

- Aussiepenguin


All stats involve math. You are however identifying the truth that is while all leave the need for intelligent interpretation, some reveal more concrete conclusions rather than abstract. Some of these conclusions leave us with common sense knowledge we already know, whether it be the old adage of get pucks to the net and good stuff happens or no shiz they happen a short time after entering the zone -the puck changes zone every few seconds for most of the game anyway. However the indirect, or secondary knowledge, that statistics provide is invaluable. The comment about tooling your roster with capable playmakers and shooters rather than character grinders applies here in a big way (that's not to say character grinders aren't capable of these types of goals or don't matter to a team). Anyway, despite the fact that RW gets shiz for it, he does a good job to most always clarify that advanced statistics shouldn't be viewed as a GM's bible. It's laughable that no matter what he says people assume he, and others alike, don't watch games but just look at digits and graphs on a computer screen.

THE STATS AND GRAPHS ARE MERELY A GUIDE OR FRAME OF REFERENCE PEOPLE. Do some people abuse them and think/wish they should always predict reality, yes. That's a totally understandable illness that comes from blogging for the Caps though.
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: San Diego, CA
Joined: 06.17.2014

Aug 12 @ 8:06 AM ET
All stats involve math. You are however identifying the truth that is while all leave the need for intelligent interpretation, some reveal more concrete conclusions rather than abstract. Some of these conclusions leave us with common sense knowledge we already know, whether it be the old adage of get pucks to the net and good stuff happens or no shiz they happen a short time after entering the zone -the puck changes zone every few seconds for most of the game anyway. However the indirect, or secondary knowledge, that statistics provide is invaluable. The comment about tooling your roster with capable playmakers and shooters rather than character grinders applies here in a big way (that's not to say character grinders aren't capable of these types of goals or don't matter to a team). Anyway, despite the fact that RW gets shiz for it, he does a good job to most always clarify that advanced statistics shouldn't be viewed as a GM's bible. It's laughable that no matter what he says people assume he, and others alike, don't watch games but just look at digits and graphs on a computer screen.

THE STATS AND GRAPHS ARE MERELY A GUIDE OR FRAME OF REFERENCE PEOPLE. Do some people abuse them and think/wish they should always predict reality, yes. That's a totally understandable illness that comes from blogging for the Caps though.

- Le_Magnifique

Senseable post. There's the door
j.boyd919
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Tampa, FL
Joined: 06.14.2011

Aug 12 @ 2:01 PM ET
All stats involve math. You are however identifying the truth that is while all leave the need for intelligent interpretation, some reveal more concrete conclusions rather than abstract. Some of these conclusions leave us with common sense knowledge we already know, whether it be the old adage of get pucks to the net and good stuff happens or no shiz they happen a short time after entering the zone -the puck changes zone every few seconds for most of the game anyway. However the indirect, or secondary knowledge, that statistics provide is invaluable. The comment about tooling your roster with capable playmakers and shooters rather than character grinders applies here in a big way (that's not to say character grinders aren't capable of these typfes of goals or don't matter to a team). Anyway, despite the fact that RW gets shiz for it, he does a good job to most always clarify that advanced statistics shouldn't be viewed as a GM's bible. It's laughable that no matter what he says people assume he, and others alike, don't watch games but just look at digits and graphs on a computer screen.

THE STATS AND GRAPHS ARE MERELY A GUIDE OR FRAME OF REFERENCE PEOPLE. Do some people abuse them and think/wish they should always predict reality, yes. That's a totally understandable illness that comes from blogging for the Caps though.

- Le_Magnifique


I like this guy.
Dcoms
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Chatham , ON
Joined: 06.22.2014

Aug 12 @ 4:20 PM ET
Let the kids play- https://www.capfriendly.c...m/armchair-gm/team/446439
Aussiepenguin
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Sydney
Joined: 08.02.2014

Aug 12 @ 9:11 PM ET
All stats involve math. You are however identifying the truth that is while all leave the need for intelligent interpretation, some reveal more concrete conclusions rather than abstract. Some of these conclusions leave us with common sense knowledge we already know, whether it be the old adage of get pucks to the net and good stuff happens or no shiz they happen a short time after entering the zone -the puck changes zone every few seconds for most of the game anyway. However the indirect, or secondary knowledge, that statistics provide is invaluable. The comment about tooling your roster with capable playmakers and shooters rather than character grinders applies here in a big way (that's not to say character grinders aren't capable of these types of goals or don't matter to a team). Anyway, despite the fact that RW gets shiz for it, he does a good job to most always clarify that advanced statistics shouldn't be viewed as a GM's bible. It's laughable that no matter what he says people assume he, and others alike, don't watch games but just look at digits and graphs on a computer screen.

THE STATS AND GRAPHS ARE MERELY A GUIDE OR FRAME OF REFERENCE PEOPLE. Do some people abuse them and think/wish they should always predict reality, yes. That's a totally understandable illness that comes from blogging for the Caps though.

- Le_Magnifique




Unfortunately Spanner isn't the only person that does that, & it appears current analytics is open to many different outcomes when individuals pick a stat or a couple of stats but don't provide all relevant data when trying to justify their opinion.
Dcoms
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Chatham , ON
Joined: 06.22.2014

Aug 13 @ 4:04 AM ET
[url]
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: San Diego, CA
Joined: 06.17.2014

Aug 13 @ 4:18 AM ET


Unfortunately Spanner isn't the only person that does that, & it appears current analytics is open to many different outcomes when individuals pick a stat or a couple of stats but don't provide all relevant data when trying to justify their opinion.

- Aussiepenguin

I really just don't understand your nicknames
Dcoms
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Chatham , ON
Joined: 06.22.2014

Aug 13 @ 4:20 AM ET
Sorry, getting that August hockey itch.

[url]
Aussiepenguin
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Sydney
Joined: 08.02.2014

Aug 13 @ 4:59 AM ET
I really just don't understand your nicknames
- Victoro311


He's a tool! And it rhymes and is similar to his actual name! - but mostly due to him being a tool.
taleisyreXIII
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: ON
Joined: 02.18.2012

Aug 13 @ 8:22 AM ET
[url]
- Dcoms


Looking at that boy are we gonna miss kuni!
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: ...serial abuser...and misuser...of the ellipsis , NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

Aug 13 @ 6:02 PM ET
Looking at that boy are we gonna miss kuni!
- taleisyreXIII


Big time. Kunitz in the bottom 6 was a beautiful thing. For me he's just as much a core player as MAF was so I hated seeing him go and especially for one year/2mill.... And to the Bolts who I believe are returning to the ECF this year.
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: ...serial abuser...and misuser...of the ellipsis , NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

Aug 13 @ 6:02 PM ET
All stats involve math. You are however identifying the truth that is while all leave the need for intelligent interpretation, some reveal more concrete conclusions rather than abstract. Some of these conclusions leave us with common sense knowledge we already know, whether it be the old adage of get pucks to the net and good stuff happens or no shiz they happen a short time after entering the zone -the puck changes zone every few seconds for most of the game anyway. However the indirect, or secondary knowledge, that statistics provide is invaluable. The comment about tooling your roster with capable playmakers and shooters rather than character grinders applies here in a big way (that's not to say character grinders aren't capable of these types of goals or don't matter to a team). Anyway, despite the fact that RW gets shiz for it, he does a good job to most always clarify that advanced statistics shouldn't be viewed as a GM's bible. It's laughable that no matter what he says people assume he, and others alike, don't watch games but just look at digits and graphs on a computer screen.

THE STATS AND GRAPHS ARE MERELY A GUIDE OR FRAME OF REFERENCE PEOPLE. Do some people abuse them and think/wish they should always predict reality, yes. That's a totally understandable illness that comes from blogging for the Caps though.

- Le_Magnifique


Nice work
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: ...serial abuser...and misuser...of the ellipsis , NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

Aug 13 @ 6:02 PM ET
Senseable post. There's the door
- Victoro311


Barnaby36
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Former Orpik44
Joined: 02.22.2013

Aug 13 @ 7:20 PM ET
What a F'n boring blog
jchst22
Joined: 01.24.2013

Aug 14 @ 9:03 AM ET
[url]
- Dcoms

Was about to ask where the long pass from Crosby to malkin against the devils was...but that was over a decade ago....yikes
j.boyd919
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Tampa, FL
Joined: 06.14.2011

Aug 14 @ 10:34 AM ET


Geno, the GOAT, taggin Phil as a burger.
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