it's only horrendous management if you don't plan for it. Let's say it's clear the flyers are ready to seriously compete in the playoffs during simmonds last year...while their power forward prospects are coming along nicely, do you really think hextall is going to trade simmonds next summer because he's worried about losing him in 2019? Why do you think hextall has built one of the very best prospect pools in the league? There is value in keeping around a simmonds for a playoff run, even if he's likely to leave
- Just5

There are better ways to handle it. The only way it would not be a mistake is if Simmonds refuses to sign what the Flyers feel is a fair deal. If they're in position for a playoff run then it is what it is. You can re-sign a player and trade him in the future.

There are better ways to handle it. The only way it would not be a mistake is if Simmonds refuses to sign what the Flyers feel is a fair deal. If they're in position for a playoff run then it is what it is. You can re-sign a player and trade him in the future.
- MJL

But what's more valuable.

Simmonds with 2 years at 3.9 or Simmonds at say 6 with 5 years left?

I don't know. A lot just depends on where the Flyers are. If they are in a playoff spot this year it will be hard to move him. If for some reason, they are struggling maybe they look at what the return is on a trade. Sell high then.

When Hextall says "absolutely not happening," it isn't happening.

When he says "I don't discuss trade talks," there's a chance.

This rumor falls in the first category. In fact, it's the exact type of deal he is adamant he will not make.
- bmeltzer

I don't disagree he wouldn't make this trade(said as much). Doesn't make sense for the flyers unless there were other moves coming and Ronald changed his philosophy.
Rest is GM speak

it's only horrendous management if you don't plan for it. Let's say it's clear the flyers are ready to seriously compete in the playoffs during simmonds last year...while their power forward prospects are coming along nicely, do you really think hextall is going to trade simmonds next summer because he's worried about losing him in 2019? Why do you think hextall has built one of the very best prospect pools in the league? There is value in keeping around a simmonds for a playoff run, even if he's likely to leave
- Just5

I don't honestly know. He might, he's shown he's not afraid to unload vets if the deal will help the flyers in the future...I know it is not a direct comparison, but I think the Hartnell and Schenn trades do some degree prove that he views players as assets, and to loose a player like Simmonds to FA would be horrible asset management, regardless if you have someone who can fill his position.

EDIT -- I meant that the Hartnell and Schenn trades prove that he isn't afraid to move vets if it will benefit the team in the long run.

Is the idea just to stay good or is the idea to win the Cup?
- MJL

Ultimately, to win the cup. If we could get him for 5 years, even at a bit more than Oshie, I'm ok. At 8x8, see ya. Hexy has done fairly well but Jake had his best year in his contract year, was top 10 in scoring, led the league most of the year. He hasn't come close again and has what, 6 years left. If he and G rebound things will be cool. If they are not up to par the next two years, I don't see a big deal for Wayne.
Gotta say, I am so torn on this. I would love to see him close out his career here. I don't want to see a huge long term over pay for a very short window. It really depends in the end on what Hexy can get done with a fair deal for both sides.

So we win a cup as long as Wayne Simmonds is on the team?

Why is it not a smart investment if he remains a quality player?
- MJL

Key word IF. How many contracts given to 31/32 year old wingers who play a power forwards game turn out to be worth it for 5/6 years at 6M?

So we win a cup as long as Wayne Simmonds is on the team?
- YuenglingJagr

Apparently. Because we've gotten so close to a Cup since acquiring him?

If Simmonds continues to play at the same level I would have no issue signing Simmonds to a 5 year extension. No reason not to.
- MJL

Cosign. Simmonds has really matured and been a consistent leader on this team.

So we win a cup as long as Wayne Simmonds is on the team?
- YuenglingJagr

Just one cup?

He could be a huge part of a cup team. Now, what if we sign him, keep G and Jake, fill in with prospects, grab a few rentals to make the push, and turn into the Caps, Run into the version of the Pens for those years and are lucky to get into the second round, and are out early for years and don't get a sniff of the finals.

Now we have cup hang over and no cup, conference final appearance or final appearance. Which is worse??

Key word IF. How many contracts given to 31/32 year old wingers who play a power forwards game turn out to be worth it for 5/6 years at 6M?
- arichardson22

I mean he did move a guy like Hartnell to get out of the same situation we are talking about.

I know Umberger wasn't a great return but some of the reason to move hartnell was his age and contract. Didn't want the money and commitment to an aging power forward.

I don't know what the right plan is. I know what I would do. But it will be curious to see how all this plays out.

But I am excited to watch this team and the youth coming. Should be fun

Imo, landing Patrick allowed Hextall to evaluate things rather than having to rush/force a trade to land a 1C potential prospect whether trade involved Simmonds G or anyone. . Having said that, he STILL traded Schenn unexpectedly because of the offer. Imo, Hexy will do the same with Simmonds if a GM comes knocking with a hell of a return.

Let's take a look, shall we?

Notable contracts during the 6 years spanning a HYPOTHETICAL 5 yr 6 million dollar contract for Simmonds, starting in 19-20:

18-19 (starting here because Filppula is important)
Notable re-signs: Lyon (RFA), Stolarz (RFA) Morin (RFA)
Off the books: Filppula (-5 mil)

19-20
Notable re-signs: Simmer, Sanheim, Raffl, Weal, Konecny (RFA), Provorov (RFA), Elliot, Neuvirth
Off the books: Lehtera (-4.7 mil)

20-21
Notable re-signs: Possible Morin bridge? Frost (RFA), Patrick (RFA), Ratcliffe (RFA), Gudas (UFA)
Off the books: Myers (RFA), Vorobyev (RFA), Hart (RFA), Rubstov (RFA), Lindblom (RFA), MACDONALD. (frank)ING MACDONALD. PRAISE JAYZIS (-5 mil)

21-22
Notable re-signs: Possible bridge deals?
Off the books: NONE

22-23
Notable re-signs: Giroux, Couturier, possible bridge deals?
Off the books: NONE

23-24
Notable re-signs: Ghost, possible bridge deals?
Off the books: NONE

You can see the point. With a sudden influx of youth comes a sudden influx of raises, some that are 400-500%. There's going to be a lot of money flowing in the next 5 years to keep many of these highly touted prospects around and build a core of Patrick, Konecny, Lindblom, Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, and Hart/Sandstrom,(whenever his ELC kicks in starting his re-signing process, most likely within the time Simmonds' contract would be on the books) with veterans Coots, Gudas, Giroux (for a few seasons) and Voracek.

I'm not sure we have room for Simmonds on the cap. I think trading him is a truly viable option from a money standpoint. He could net an useful NHL player and a 1st at least.

I think Bill's suggest was a good one. You look for something more short term but maybe higher AAV. If that isn't ok then maybe you look to move him with a year left as his value would be higher.
- J35Bacher

Yup, a 3 yr 6.5 mil would actually be clutch

it is foolish to think Wayne only get 5 years and 6 million per.

Let's take a look, shall we?

Notable contracts during the 6 years spanning a HYPOTHETICAL 5 yr 6 million dollar contract for Simmonds, starting in 19-20:

18-19 (starting here because Filppula is important)
Notable re-signs: Lyon (RFA), Stolarz (RFA) Morin (RFA)
Off the books: Filppula (-5 mil)

19-20
Notable re-signs: Simmer, Sanheim, Raffl, Weal, Konecny (RFA), Provorov (RFA), Elliot, Neuvirth
Off the books: Lehtera (-4.7 mil)

20-21
Notable re-signs: Possible Morin bridge? Frost (RFA), Patrick (RFA), Ratcliffe (RFA), Gudas (UFA)
Off the books: Myers (RFA), Vorobyev (RFA), Hart (RFA), Rubstov (RFA), Lindblom (RFA), MACDONALD. (frank)ING MACDONALD. PRAISE JAYZIS (-5 mil)

21-22
Notable re-signs: Possible bridge deals?
Off the books: NONE

22-23
Notable re-signs: Giroux, Couturier, possible bridge deals?
Off the books: NONE

23-24
Notable re-signs: Ghost, possible bridge deals?
Off the books: NONE

You can see the point. With a sudden influx of youth comes a sudden influx of raises, some that are 400-500%. There's going to be a lot of money flowing in the next 5 years to keep many of these highly touted prospects around and build a core of Patrick, Konecny, Lindblom, Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, and Hart/Sandstrom,(whenever his ELC kicks in starting his re-signing process, most likely within the time Simmonds' contract would be on the books) with veterans Coots, Gudas, Giroux (for a few seasons) and Voracek.

I'm not sure we have room for Simmonds on the cap. I think trading him is a truly viable option from a money standpoint. He could net an useful NHL player and a 1st at least.
- Giroux_Is_God

Thank you

Yup, a 3 yr 6.5 mil would actually be clutch
- Giroux_Is_God

I think that is a little unrealistic. I would put 6.5 on a 5 year deal unless he is very interested in giving the Flyers a discount

Imo, landing Patrick allowed Hextall to evaluate things rather than having to rush/force a trade to land a 1C potential prospect whether trade involved Simmonds G or anyone. . Having said that, he STILL traded Schenn unexpectedly because of the offer. Imo, Hexy will do the same with Simmonds if a GM comes knocking with a hell of a return.
- arichardson22

This!

I don't know if Hexy would shop him or just listen to offers and maybe pick the best one. So much depends on where the teams is.
What if he was able to move G, resign Simmer and stoke the center line up with 4 of the 25 or so top line center prospects in the wings.
Patrick, Coots, Rubstov, Vorobyev.
Patrick, Frost, Coots, Vorobyev. This one has Rubstov and Veccs playing wing.

So many ways this team can go in the next three years.

it is foolish to think Wayne only get 5 years and 6 million per.
- rinaldo

....further proving the point, ty

Let's take a look, shall we?

Notable contracts during the 6 years spanning a HYPOTHETICAL 5 yr 6 million dollar contract for Simmonds, starting in 19-20:

18-19 (starting here because Filppula is important)
Notable re-signs: Lyon (RFA), Stolarz (RFA) Morin (RFA)
Off the books: Filppula (-5 mil)

19-20
Notable re-signs: Simmer, Sanheim, Raffl, Weal, Konecny (RFA), Provorov (RFA), Elliot, Neuvirth
Off the books: Lehtera (-4.7 mil)

20-21
Notable re-signs: Possible Morin bridge? Frost (RFA), Patrick (RFA), Ratcliffe (RFA), Gudas (UFA)
Off the books: Myers (RFA), Vorobyev (RFA), Hart (RFA), Rubstov (RFA), Lindblom (RFA), MACDONALD. (frank)ING MACDONALD. PRAISE JAYZIS (-5 mil)

21-22
Notable re-signs: Possible bridge deals?
Off the books: NONE

22-23
Notable re-signs: Giroux, Couturier, possible bridge deals?
Off the books: NONE

23-24
Notable re-signs: Ghost, possible bridge deals?
Off the books: NONE

You can see the point. With a sudden influx of youth comes a sudden influx of raises, some that are 400-500%. There's going to be a lot of money flowing in the next 5 years to keep many of these highly touted prospects around and build a core of Patrick, Konecny, Lindblom, Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, and Hart/Sandstrom,(whenever his ELC kicks in starting his re-signing process, most likely within the time Simmonds' contract would be on the books) with veterans Coots, Gudas, Giroux (for a few seasons) and Voracek.

I'm not sure we have room for Simmonds on the cap. I think trading him is a truly viable option from a money standpoint. He could net an useful NHL player and a 1st at least.
- Giroux_Is_God

The Pens have Crosby, Malkin, LeTang and Kessell. That's over $30mil for four players. How do they do it? Drafting and developing players. Paying the right players.

The Flyers will not have problems keeping whomever they want. The question is are the players they choose the players that will win a cup(s)? That's why Hexy gets paid the big bucks. To make those decisions.

I think that is a little unrealistic. I would put 6.5 on a 5 year deal unless he is very interested in giving the Flyers a discount
- YuenglingJagr

Yeah, that's true. But hey, he discounted us last time

I think 3 years is the magic number for him from a Flyers' standpoint. What's that push? 7? 7.5? Oshie carries a 5.75 mil hit I think

I think that is a little unrealistic. I would put 6.5 on a 5 year deal unless he is very interested in giving the Flyers a discount
- YuenglingJagr

For me, just my opinion, term length is more important then cap hit.

For me, just my opinion, term length is more important then cap hit.
- J35Bacher

I agree.

Yup, a 3 yr 6.5 mil would actually be clutch
- Giroux_Is_God

unrealistic though. good lord

Yeah, that's true. But hey, he discounted us last time

I think 3 years is the magic number for him from a Flyers' standpoint. What's that push? 7? 7.5? Oshie carries a 5.75 mil hit I think
- Giroux_Is_God

Oshie has an 8 year deal though.

Radulov and Erickson have shorter deals

There isn't much precedent for a player of Simmond's skill/production signing a high AAV short term deal