GMJR, bring the hometown boy, Trocheck, back to Pittsburgh!!!

I agree Bjugstad would be more realistic, but someone asked for unrealistic 3C's! I can dream can't I!
- so_buzz11

2011 should be considered one of the most infamous of sid era drafts. Such a crazy draft (with the best dude going 58th) with talent going all over the place. Yet there are the Pens skipping out on two hometown players and coming away with nothing to show. I remember yelling about them boyz passing over Saad.
(frank). atleast 2012 wasn't so bad

2011 should be considered one of the most infamous of sid era drafts. Such a crazy draft (with the best dude going 58th) with talent going all over the place. Yet there are the Pens skipping out on two hometown players and coming away with nothing to show. I remember yelling about them boyz passing over Saad.
(frank). atleast 2012 wasn't so bad
- DeflatedPucks

If Shero had taken an arbitrary "(frank) it lets just take the two highest rated Pittsburgh boys, we're at the bottom of both rounds so what do we have to lose anyways" approach, SHEEEEEEAAAAAAT.... I don't even want to think about it.

I think Pens' fans need to temper expectations on the 3C front.

Devin Shore, Zemgus Girgensons, Andrej Nestrasil, etc... I think these are the level of names you can expect at least at first.

I can see the Pens making a move that doesn't cost them that much via trade or UFA signing then perhaps making a bigger splash come the deadline if those guys don't work out.
- Rinosaur

FYI, Andrej Nestrasil has agreed to terms in KHL with Neftekhimik

Shore and Girgensons would be fine 4C+ to 3C options, which GMJR would need to trade for, but I'm trying to push for 3C+ options. I agree the Pens would probably need to give a little more to get these options, but everyone is saying this is WIN NOW mode for the Pens, so let them spend near the cap limit and possibly lose a good (but hopefully expendable) player like Sheary/Maatta/???, but the Pens should go for it!

FYI, Andrej Nestrasil has agreed to terms in KHL with Neftekhimik

Shore and Girgensons would be fine 4C+ to 3C options, which GMJR would need to trade for, but I'm trying to push for 3C+ options. I agree the Pens would probably need to give a little more to get these options, but everyone is saying this is WIN NOW mode for the Pens, so let them spend near the cap limit and possibly lose a good (but hopefully expendable) player like Sheary/Maatta/???, but the Pens should go for it!
- so_buzz11

We really do need a center badly. I know Fehr didn't look the best here but our C depth starting last year was 87-71-13-7-16 at the end of the year Rowney took Fehrs spot but now our C depth is garbage

We really do need a center badly. I know Fehr didn't look the best here but our C depth starting last year was 87-71-13-7-16 at the end of the year Rowney took Fehrs spot but now our C depth is garbage
- 668710

Fehr wouldn't make it any better. Dude is burnt out and a bad fit here. I liked the signing but it didn't work out.

He is probably best suited for wing but playing with guys like Miller and Glendening make it tough to rack up assists.
- Feds91Stammer

True, but he also got significant PP time. The way the league hands out secondary assists like candy, just about forward getting those minutes and PP time should have more than 16 assists. It tells me he's not much of a facilitator. Another Brandon Sutter.

FYI, Andrej Nestrasil has agreed to terms in KHL with Neftekhimik

Shore and Girgensons would be fine 4C+ to 3C options, which GMJR would need to trade for, but I'm trying to push for 3C+ options. I agree the Pens would probably need to give a little more to get these options, but everyone is saying this is WIN NOW mode for the Pens, so let them spend near the cap limit and possibly lose a good (but hopefully expendable) player like Sheary/Maatta/???, but the Pens should go for it!
- so_buzz11

I know what you're pushing for. We're all hoping Rutherford can land a big fish for 3C, but it just may not be in the cards. You can be in WIN NOW mode all you want, but if the pieces aren't available, they're not available.

You have to get SOMETHING, so my point is that what is likely more available are guys on the level of the players I mentioned.

Even if the Pens dangled some kind of crazy Maatta, Hagelin or Horqnvist package wrapped up in a nice 1st round pick little bow doesn't mean anything unless a player is available.

Danault would probably be the easiest of these to get, if Duchene or Tavares go to Montreal. They need A top line center to really compete, so they may part with a bottom 6 center if Montreal is able to cook up something and get a good top center. So, it is possible.
- so_buzz11

I would imagine that both Colorado and NYI would want either Danault+ or Galchenyuk+ in return so I don't think Montreal would have a center to trade. I would much rather have Danault between the two.

I know what you're pushing for. We're all hoping Rutherford can land a big fish for 3C, but it just may not be in the cards. You can be in WIN NOW mode all you want, but if the pieces aren't available, they're not available.

You have to get SOMETHING, so my point is that what is likely more available are guys on the level of the players I mentioned.

Even if the Pens dangled some kind of crazy Maatta, Hagelin or Horqnvist package wrapped up in a nice 1st round pick little bow doesn't mean anything unless a player is available.
- Rinosaur

I think just about any player is "available" if the price is right. There are probably 10 or fewer completely untouchable players, headlined by Crosby and McDavid.

As for what the Pens have to offer, I don't think Maatta and/or Hags is going to get anyone's attention. Both are fully compensated (not cheap contracts) and both have glaring weaknesses. Hornqvist is really the only expendable roster player with value that the Pens have, IMO.

I think Sprong is really the only expendable prospect with value (I am of the mind that you don't trade a college FA who has chosen to play for you, so ZAR is out, and goalies in the minors don't have much value, so Jarry is out). Our draft picks will be at the end of each round, so not much value there.

JR has his work cut out for him and I think to land a really good 3C, it will cost something that fans don't want to give up. Maybe Horny + Sprong + 1st to get a 2C caliber player to play 3C, and that's if we're lucky and the other team wants/values Horny and Sprong.

I think just about any player is "available" if the price is right. There are probably 10 or fewer completely untouchable players, headlined by Crosby and McDavid.

As for what the Pens have to offer, I don't think Maatta and/or Hags is going to get anyone's attention. Both are fully compensated (not cheap contracts) and both have glaring weaknesses. Hornqvist is really the only expendable roster player with value that the Pens have, IMO.

I think Sprong is really the only expendable prospect with value (I am of the mind that you don't trade a college FA who has chosen to play for you, so ZAR is out, and goalies in the minors don't have much value, so Jarry is out). Our draft picks will be at the end of each round, so not much value there.

JR has his work cut out for him and I think to land a really good 3C, it will cost something that fans don't want to give up. Maybe Horny + Sprong + 1st to get a 2C caliber player to play 3C, and that's if we're lucky and the other team wants/values Horny and Sprong.
- T-Train

That first statement is just not true. It's very black and white, and doesn't not take into account a team's situation. It's easy to say any player can be had if you offer enough, but teams aren't going to move a player just because the return is good. A move has to make sense for a team.

Just because YOU feel that way about ZAR doesn't make it true, and just because YOU think Sprong expendable doesn't make it true.

About the only thing that's really qualifiable is that the Pens' draft picks(outside of the 1st round) likely don't hold much value for anything significant. The 2018 is supposed to a high-quality deep draft, so any 1st round pick is valuable.

The real truth is NOBODY here has any idea what-so-ever about what Rutherford is willing to give up.

True, but he also got significant PP time. The way the league hands out secondary assists like candy, just about forward getting those minutes and PP time should have more than 16 assists. It tells me he's not much of a facilitator. Another Brandon Sutter.
- T-Train

I wouldn't call being 13th in pp toi per game on the 4th worst pp in the league significant pp time.

That first statement is just not true. It's very black and white, and doesn't not take into account a team's situation. It's easy to say any player can be had if you offer enough, but teams aren't going to move a player just because the return is good. A move has to make sense for a team.

Just because YOU feel that way about ZAR doesn't make it true, and just because YOU think Sprong expendable doesn't make it true.

About the only thing that's really qualifiable is that the Pens' draft picks(outside of the 1st round) likely don't hold much value for anything significant. The 2018 is supposed to a high-quality deep draft, so any 1st round pick is valuable.

The real truth is NOBODY here has any idea what-so-ever about what Rutherford is willing to give up.
- Rinosaur

Well, the terms, "I think" and "just about" mean that it is a not black and white statement. But name any player from any team outside of Crosby, McDavid, and a few guys who are considered "the face" of the franchise, and I will show you that they would send those players packing if the deal is right. Of course, NTCs come into play which would be the only impediment.

All GMs are in the business of improving their teams. If a deal comes along that they think is an improvement over what they have, then just about any player is available. I'm sure once upon a time people thought Shea Weber and P.K. Subban were "not available," just as an example.

Here is a very small and incomplete list of players who apparently were "available" and traded. A lot of HOFers, future HOFers, max contracts, all-stars, etc.

Brent Burns
Artemi Panarin
Tyler Seguin
Phil Kessel
Jeff Carter
Eric Staal
Jordan Staal
JVR
Ryan Johansen
Marcus Johansson
Ryan Kesler
Nino Niederreiter
T.J. Oshie
Kevin Shattenkirk
Ryan O'Reilly
Brayden Schenn
Jonathan Drouin
Brandon Saad
Dustin Byfuglien
Marian Hossa (multiple times)
Jaromir Jagr (multiple times)
Seth Jones
Zach Parise
Shea Weber
P.K. Subban
Taylor Hall
Dougie Hamilton
Jason Spezza
Ryan Miller
Roberto Luongo
Joe Thornton
Jarome Iginla
Dion Phaneuf
Rick Nash
Zdeno Chara

In years past:
Wayne Gretzky
Mark Messier
Phil Esposito (multiple times)
Patrick Roy
Ulf Samuelsson
Eric Lindros
Peter Forsberg
Cam Neely
Doug Gilmour
Martin St. Louis
Joe Nieuwendyk
Mats Sundin
Wendel Clark
Ron Francis
Rick Tocchet
Kevin Stevens

Can we put to bed this notion that the league is chock full of players who aren't "available"? If Wayne Fricken' Gretzky can be traded, then pretty much anyone can be traded.

That first statement is just not true. It's very black and white, and doesn't not take into account a team's situation. It's easy to say any player can be had if you offer enough, but teams aren't going to move a player just because the return is good. A move has to make sense for a team.

Just because YOU feel that way about ZAR doesn't make it true, and just because YOU think Sprong expendable doesn't make it true.

About the only thing that's really qualifiable is that the Pens' draft picks(outside of the 1st round) likely don't hold much value for anything significant. The 2018 is supposed to a high-quality deep draft, so any 1st round pick is valuable.

The real truth is NOBODY here has any idea what-so-ever about what Rutherford is willing to give up.
- Rinosaur

The fact that I started that entire paragraph with the disclaimer "I think" and later included "I am of the mind" should clue you in that it is just my opinion and not a declaration of fact. What a ridiculous statement for you to make. Of course my opinion doesn't make it true.

I did not state anything as fact or true other than minor league goalies don't have much value, which is widely accepted as a true statement. I could be wrong about everything I have ever posted and will post on this site. Ok now?

Yes, nobody knows what JR is willing to give up except JR. Obviously. This forum is for fans to, among other things, speculate and post their opinions about what might happen. Which is what I did. Instead of getting caught up in falsely insinuating that I am making declarations as fact, how about offering YOUR opinion about my opinion?

Do YOU think the Pens would trade ZAR? Should the Pens trade ZAR? Do YOU think Sprong is expendable for the purposes of trading for a 3C? Whatever YOUR opinion is, neither of us is more correct than the other.

It seems as though you are itching for a fight. I am here to just talk about our opinions on offseason hockey moves. If you're not interested in my opinion, then don't respond.

I wouldn't call being 13th in pp toi per game on the 4th worst pp in the league significant pp time.
- Feds91Stammer

Whatever. 77:34 of PP TOI is significant (as in, not just a few minutes). Rabbit hole denied. Bottom line: 16 assists is putrid for a so-called center.

So scraps / marginal NHL wingers or a late round draft pick for an up-and-coming young center on an ELC with control? What is the motivation / rationale from Dallas' side? You could offer Wilson and Kuhnhackl and a 1st and Dallas still doesn't bite. Guys like Wilson and Kuhnhackl are a dime-a-dozen and can be had on waivers or free agency almost any day of the week.

This is why it's easy to criticize trade proposals but hard to come up with them. If the Pens have shown anything in their two Cup runs, is that center depth is really important. Any playoff team or team on the cusp (which is about 80% of the entire league) is not going to willingly part with valuable centers, especially young ones.
- T-Train

I really really hope that I don't hear JR saying next off season how he should have pushed harder last off season to find a solid 3C & if he had his time again he would have sorted it out before the season started & that's the reason we............

I really really hope that I don't hear JR saying next off season how he should have pushed harder last off season to find a solid 3C & if he had his time again he would have sorted it out before the season started & that's the reason we............
- Aussiepenguin

Yeah, he's been quoted as saying something to the effect of he's fine with starting the season with what they have. Even though JR is honest and forthcoming to a fault, I call BS. The Pens literally have no bona fide NHL centers after Crosby and Malkin. If you want to include Rowney as 4C, that's fine, I'm just not convinced he's an every day player. You can "wing it" with pretty much any other position other than center. They can try to wing it at center to start the season, but I think it will cost us games which could become important at the end of the season.

Interestingly, one of our few center prospects, JS Dea, is still unsigned. Usually the minor league deals are the first to get signed so I'm not sure what the holdup is.

Did he say something similar about the defensive corps last year? Well, he waited until the trade deadline and got Hainsey and Streit. I still can't believe we won the Cup.

I think something will happen before the season starts. If not the big splash, then just an adequate or so 3C like Girgensons and maybe try to upgrade at the TDL.

Look, I can't help thinking all these wet dream trade proposals are a little unrealistic!

So let's put it this way;

Which player that can be considered a 3C do we not want under any circumstances??

Max Talbot put up 100 point seasons in the Q and Tom Kuhnhackle did in the OHL what's your point? The CHL as a whole is still a better indicator of a young players potential than any other amateur league. The competition is better, the coaching is better, and the environment/ atmosphere is better.

Yeah, he's been quoted as saying something to the effect of he's fine with starting the season with what they have. Even though JR is honest and forthcoming to a fault, I call BS. The Pens literally have no bona fide NHL centers after Crosby and Malkin. If you want to include Rowney as 4C, that's fine, I'm just not convinced he's an every day player. You can "wing it" with pretty much any other position other than center. They can try to wing it at center to start the season, but I think it will cost us games which could become important at the end of the season.

Interestingly, one of our few center prospects, JS Dea, is still unsigned. Usually the minor league deals are the first to get signed so I'm not sure what the holdup is.

Did he say something similar about the defensive corps last year? Well, he waited until the trade deadline and got Hainsey and Streit. I still can't believe we won the Cup.

I think something will happen before the season starts. If not the big splash, then just an adequate or so 3C like Girgensons and maybe try to upgrade at the TDL.
- T-Train

How is Girgensons adequate? He had, what, 7 goals last year and the year before? How do play Kessel with him?

Look, I can't help thinking all these wet dream trade proposals are a little unrealistic!

So let's put it this way;

Which player that can be considered a 3C do we not want under any circumstances??
- Aussiepenguin

Just about any of the ones mentioned on here that are bandaid players. Anyone over 30 signed for over 3 million.

And a Penguins blog writer saying Crosby is as good at stick handling at high speeds as McDavid, isn't biased how? Crosby is a good skater but he's not as at McDavid's level speed wise. Few players have ever been.
- mnhockeyguy

Buddy get out of this conversation while you can before you get sucked into the black void of idiocy.

Well they do claim to be "Hockeytown" so there's that. The whole state of hockey thing has more to do with the number of NHLers that come from Minnesota vs the rest of the US, but yes we are in agreement for once, its a bad marketing gimmick.
- mnhockeyguy

The only reason they sell enough tickets to call themselves hockeytown is because they are a border town and Windsor and Sarnia people would rather drive there than all the way to Toronto. Otherwise the team would have folded during the 80s
k

How is Girgensons adequate? He had, what, 7 goals last year and the year before? How do play Kessel with him?
- Dcoms

Maybe a bad example, but he did score 15-15-30 over 61 games his second year in the league which translates to a 20-20-40 point full season (on a crappy Buffalo team, mind you). He's a former first round draft pick (14th overall), good defender, plays PK, has played PP, nearing even at faceoffs, big body, and has 4 years experience. He knows how to play the position and could fill the void until a better option is acquired, but you're right, he is probably in the "or so" category.

Look, I can't help thinking all these wet dream trade proposals are a little unrealistic!

So let's put it this way;

Which player that can be considered a 3C do we not want under any circumstances??
- Aussiepenguin

My two non-starters are bad defensively and doesn't kill penalties, which would exclude Bozak and Galchenyuk among others.

Bonus for being a good facilitator and good at faceoffs (and all that fancy stat stuff like possession, passing percentage, controlled zone exits, etc. which I take with a big grain of salt).

Whatever. 77:34 of PP TOI is significant (as in, not just a few minutes). Rabbit hole denied. Bottom line: 16 assists is putrid for a so-called center.
- T-Train

Bonino had 19 !