He's actually a natural center, he moved to wing for the Flyers. Right now the Flyers have 16 NHL forwards (assuming Patrick makes the team) and need to clear some space.
- jmatchett383

Ehhh, I'd be apprehensive at this point to move a player to center who's played mainly wing in the NHL. I do like him though. I think he brings an element the Pens want/need.

Sprong and ZAR will definitely start in the minors, as those they are competing with for a roster spot are out of waiver immunity and it doesn't make sense to cut guys like Kuhnhackl/Archibald etc. and expose them than to just wait for injuries for Sprong and ZAR to make the jump. Starting out with guys like that in the minors is how in-season depth is built.

Did someone say it was a bad return?
- jmatchett383

Ryan did in the blog: "If the Penguins do come to that conclusion at least they have the ability to recover some value in a trade while New York lost the player for basically nothing."

The bottom wings on the roster, Kuhnhackl and Archibald, are also pk guys so they would still have the same number in the lineup and save well over 3M. It's something to consdier if they need the space.
- Tojo.

Those guys aren't elite like hagelin. You can make the same argument with hornqvist whose basically a pp specialist. Malkin, crosby, guentzel, letang, kessel is a fine first unit. Might even be superior than hornqvist in it. The downgrade on the pp from hornqvist to the next guy is less than the downgrade from hagelin to the next guy on the pk.

Curious is hornqvist really only 190 lbs. I see that listed everywhere.

FWIW I'd say I'm still in the camp of trading hornqvist either straight up for a 3c or for picks/prospects to go get our ideal 3c.

And then I'm a fan of signing jagr as his replacement. Just better all around game and possession metrics at cheaper costs. And he's bigger; I'm sure he could be the bull in a china shop going to the net if we need it.

Curious is hornqvist really only 190 lbs. I see that listed everywhere.

- sditulli

He's also under 6 foot and have you seen him without his shirt on? I mean... no fat. That's all muscle... meooowwww

He's also under 6 foot and have you seen him without his shirt on? I mean... no fat. That's all muscle... meooowwww
- Rinosaur

Ya don't disagree on what he looks like. Looks thick. But I'm 5'10 and was just up to close to 190. Though lost some weight. That just doesn't sound thickness enough to be a mauler in front of the net. But he gets it done. I wouldn't be surprised if they are underlisting him and he's 210 or so.

Ya don't disagree on what he looks like. Looks thick. But I'm 5'10 and was just up to close to 190. Though lost some weight. That just doesn't sound thickness enough to be a mauler in front of the net. But he gets it done. I wouldn't be surprised if they are underlisting him and he's 210 or so.

I would have thought a guy who played his style would be built like a NFL runningback. Who are generally short 5'8 to 6'0 and massively thick. Even smaller backs are sometimes 210 area.

Ya don't disagree on what he looks like. Looks thick. But I'm 5'10 and was just up to close to 190. Though lost some weight. That just doesn't sound thickness enough to be a mauler in front of the net. But he gets it done. I wouldn't be surprised if they are underlisting him and he's 210 or so.

I would have thought a guy who played his style would be built like a NFL runningback. Who are generally short 5'8 to 6'0 and massively thick. Even smaller backs are sometimes 210 area.
- sditulli

Someone needs to tell Eddie Lacy that. He's prob the type to belong in the NHL rather than the NFL. destroyed my fantasy pool last year, that gourmandizing (frank)

Those guys aren't elite like hagelin. You can make the same argument with hornqvist whose basically a pp specialist. Malkin, crosby, guentzel, letang, kessel is a fine first unit. Might even be superior than hornqvist in it. The downgrade on the pp from hornqvist to the next guy is less than the downgrade from hagelin to the next guy on the pk.
- sditulli

Hornqvist had 21 goals to Hagelin's 6 though. And it's moving 2 years of salary, not one. Hagelin is certainly the one who is more overpaid.

Yes, you'd lose something switching from Hagelin to Archibald. But you'd gain 3.3M. It's worth considering. If we need a syraight salary dump, that's who I'm looking at. But the 3C trade may take another player anyways making this unnecessary anyways.

He's also under 6 foot and have you seen him without his shirt on? I mean... no fat. That's all muscle... meooowwww
- Rinosaur

Dude is ripped beyond belief!!!! He's a freaking Norse God.

Someone needs to tell Eddie Lacy that. He's prob the type to belong in the NHL rather than the NFL. destroyed my fantasy pool last year, that gourmandizing (frank)
- DeflatedPucks

Yes. I guess learning to skate is tough. Though I'm surprised their aren't some guys in the nhl who are of the shorter girthy type who specialize in net front. I think the ideal guy would be like a fullback. Guys who run like a 4.7 is 5'10 230-250 lbs. You really would want a guy who is shorter because the net is only so high and the smaller guy gets the leverage. A specialist like that would truly be a guy defenseman couldn't move from the crease and dominant on board play.

Lacey's fat problem would still be a problem in the nhl. Excess weight no matter what sport your playing cuts down on explosiveness and agility.

Hornqvist had 21 goals to Hagelin's 6 though. And it's moving 2 years of salary, not one. Hagelin is certainly the one who is more overpaid.

Yes, you'd lose something switching from Hagelin to Archibald. But you'd gain 3.3M. It's worth considering. If we need a syraight salary dump, that's who I'm looking at. But the 3C trade may take another player anyways making this unnecessary anyways.
- Tojo.

Goals not best comparison. How many goals does Hagelin save on the pk and thru superior possession to hornqvist? That should actually be available by the analytics community. I'd assume its in the 7+ area. And being that a lot of hornqvist goals come on the power play how many would be easily replaced by next man in? Since we have Guentzel he'd replace a lot of hornqvist power play goals (might actually score more). Our next man on the pp is better than hornqvist.

I also think hornqvist has better trade value.

Not worried about salaries for 2 years. We could trade hagelin next offseason if we need the cap space and then the 2nd year of savings is taken care of.

He's also under 6 foot and have you seen him without his shirt on? I mean... no fat. That's all muscle... meooowwww
- Rinosaur

Have you seen Phat Phil without his shirt on? ....meoooowww

Either Hagelin or Hornqvist has to go for a 3C.

Sprong and ZAR will definitely start in the minors, as those they are competing with for a roster spot are out of waiver immunity and it doesn't make sense to cut guys like Kuhnhackl/Archibald etc. and expose them than to just wait for injuries for Sprong and ZAR to make the jump. Starting out with guys like that in the minors is how in-season depth is built.
- hardnosed

True, and I'll be surprised if either make the starting lineup, but we also need to move out salary to make room for a 3C once that's eventually traded for, and that salary should come from the forward ranks.

Sheary should have much higher trade value than hagelin.

Its really useless to talk about a guys paycheck who is under contract for 2 more years. Its a sunk costs. Unless you can find someone else who overvalues him. If the market is correctly pricing him their is nothing you can do with him.

That being said we need PK guys. It would be pretty tough to lose hagelin and bonino in the same year. PK is important. And we haven't added anyone who excels at that. For balancing out the roster I think I'd rather have hagelin than hornqvist. We have plenty of power play guys. Not very strong on the pk.
- sditulli

Agree. The Pens are also short on LWs, long on RWs. Horny is the obvious choice to me. Horny has higher trade value than Hags, too.

Just throwing this out there...what if we can manage a trade for a 3rd line C who is ~$2M. Without thinking too hard, lets just say a Lowry, Faksa, Haula, Karlsson, etc...

Would you guys take an average 3rd C like that AND keep Hagelin/Hornqvist/Sheary/Maatta if it can be squeezed under the cap?

OR

Lose one of Hagelin/Hornqvist/Sheary/Maatta for an excellent 3rd C?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

This is what I think it will come down to. I would also throw Lindberg and Marchessault into the mix. Vegas has a ton of centers (with Haula and Karlsson also) and would probably take a 1st+ or 2nd+ for one of them.

I also think that Jersey might be willing to part with Johansson, but based on what Dumo got and what Sheary will likely get, we would have to move out a salary, too. Johansson has two years left and Jersey is more than two years from competing. They desperately need defensemen. I could see a Maatta for Johansson trade and then getting a defenseman from Vegas for picks as they also have a ton of defensemen and they need to get rid of some.

Hags is such a unique player. No other forward like him in the NHL.

So... I keep seeing some posters saying over the last two weeks that Hags' cap hit is "4 mil+"

Are you guys dumb? Its 4 mil flat... always was. Where the hell was this + coming from?

This is what I think it will come down to. I would also throw Lindberg and Marchessault into the mix. Vegas has a ton of centers (with Haula and Karlsson also) and would probably take a 1st+ or 2nd+ for one of them.

I also think that Jersey might be willing to part with Johansson, but based on what Dumo got and what Sheary will likely get, we would have to move out a salary, too. Johansson has two years left and Jersey is more than two years from competing. They desperately need defensemen. I could see a Maatta for Johansson trade and then getting a defenseman from Vegas for picks as they also have a ton of defensemen and they need to get rid of some.
- T-Train

Why would Jersey part with Johansson unless they think they can't resign him? He's a young, good second line calliber player. He's probably their best center or second best wing they have right now.

Goals not best comparison. How many goals does Hagelin save on the pk and thru superior possession to hornqvist? That should actually be available by the analytics community. I'd assume its in the 7+ area. And being that a lot of hornqvist goals come on the power play how many would be easily replaced by next man in? Since we have Guentzel he'd replace a lot of hornqvist power play goals (might actually score more). Our next man on the pp is better than hornqvist.

I also think hornqvist has better trade value.

Not worried about salaries for 2 years. We could trade hagelin next offseason if we need the cap space and then the 2nd year of savings is taken care of.
- sditulli

You may want to check Hornqvists possession stats. Also it's not all about what P.H scores on the the PP but also the looks other players get because of his net front presence and the chaos he creates

You may want to check Hornqvists possession stats. Also it's not all about what P.H scores on the the PP but also the looks other players get because of his net front presence and the chaos he creates
- willi

For every chance Hornqvist creates on the PP, he also kills a PP possession because he can't help bring the puck into the zone or pass productively when he's in it. This isn't a huge problem when Letang is healthy but when Tanger is out it's a big issue.

Why would Jersey part with Johansson unless they think they can't resign him? He's a young, good second line calliber player. He's probably their best center or second best wing they have right now.
- Victoro311

Look at the Devils roster - they are loaded with full-time centers under contract for at least the next two seasons and they just drafted a center 1st overall. Then look at their defense - it's a complete joke. Shero drafted Maatta.

Ask yourself, do you think Jersey would rather have Maatta for the next 5 seasons guaranteed or Johansson for two seasons and then maybe he's gone, right around the time they start to become a contender? Very debatable whether he is their best center - don't be fooled by the numbers he put up on a loaded, high-scoring Caps team.

Either Hagelin or Hornqvist has to go for a 3C.
- Victoro311

Or Maatta