It'll be the opposite of the Dumo crowd. Everyone who didn't mind Dumo's contract will hate Sheary's and everyone who hated Dumo's contract won't mind Sheary's.
- j.boyd919

I expected Dumo to be in the $3.5 to $4M range and I expect no less than $4M for Sheary, maybe a tad more if it's only a one-year deal.

I expected Dumo to be in the $3.5 to $4M range and I expect no less than $4M for Sheary, maybe a tad more if it's only a one-year deal.
- Rinosaur

I don't necessarily like Dumo's contract. The term sucks IMO. I would have hoped term would have dropped the cap hit. But whatever, it won't kill the Pens. Sheary at 4m won't kill them either because they are both contributing players that can/have played big roles on this team and should, at least for the near future.

Actually it's a very relevant response, because you said it is unlikely an undrafted player keeps his 5v5 production rate up. I said that he was likely undrafted because of his size (as a lot of small players are. Rafalski, St. Louis, Tyler Johnson, Joe Mullen, I'm sure there are more). There are plenty of undrafted players in the NHL that have made a name for themselves, and he's produced at every level, college, AHL, and NHL. And there have been plenty of undersized players in recent years who produce in the playoffs. Arviddson, Johnson, Marty, etc. Like I said, size doesn't matter. If you're a good hockey player, you'll find a way to produce. He's proven to be a good hockey player. Could have been a nagging injury, who knows.

The problem is, Pens fans are expecting this elite, top notch scorer during the playoffs. There's only one puck on the ice. Pens had 4 players top 20 points this playoffs. Not everyone is going to score. He put up 7 points in 22 games with no time on the no. 1PP, on a team with a defense deferred to the glass or lobs up the neutral zone instead of clean breakouts. Hell, Horny who is SO important to the Pens put up 9 points, and had 30 more minutes of PP time (probably on PP1) but yet he gets no flack and is totally worth his cap hit. Riiiiight. Sheary was fine. Sure his production may have gone down, but he contributed just as much as Bonino, Hornqvist, Rust, etc.
- j.boyd919

Let me be clear

Sheary, if I'm not mistaken, had the #1 5v5 production rate in the entire NHL at one point...yeah...that's the rate I was talking about. I'm just saying that his average production is not going to lead the league in this stat. Otherwise, I'm sure he would have been drafted...and highly...like many other small forwards with all-world talent.

Martin St. Louis is a long time ago at this point, the league is no longer afraid of drafting small players. That generalization is fading into the dust.

Let me be clear

Sheary, if I'm not mistaken, had the #1 5v5 production rate in the entire NHL at one point...yeah...that's the rate I was talking about. I'm just saying that his average production is not going to lead the league in this stat. Otherwise, I'm sure he would have been drafted...and highly...like many other small forwards with all-world talent.

Martin St. Louis is a long time ago at this point, the league is no longer afraid of drafting small players. That generalization is fading into the dust.
- W_1

I'm not saying it will lead the league, but in 2015-2016, his 5v5 points per 60 were also astronomically high when he was playing primarily in bottom six role. His production, at least during the regular season, seems pretty sustainable.

I'm not saying it will lead the league, but in 2015-2016, his 5v5 points per 60 were also astronomically high when he was playing primarily in bottom six role. His production, at least during the regular season, seems pretty sustainable.
- Victoro311

But, he sucked in the most recent playoffs. If he was hurt, fine. It looked to me like he was certainly afraid of contact for whatever reason.

But, he sucked in the most recent playoffs. If he was hurt, fine. It looked to me like he was certainly afraid of contact for whatever reason.
- powerhouse

I don't think he was afraid of the contact, but more often than not teams put a body on him as soon as he touched the puck. He had zero space and didn't handle it well at all.

https://www.thescore.com/...lvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Will butcher won't sign with avs and will try free agency. Will butcher is a defensemen in the NCAA and is the hoby baker winner. pittsburgh linked to him. I talked about him many weeks ago and hope pens make a real strong push for him.

PS "the score" is still "the score" though

Actually it's a very relevant response, because you said it is unlikely an undrafted player keeps his 5v5 production rate up. I said that he was likely undrafted because of his size (as a lot of small players are. Rafalski, St. Louis, Tyler Johnson, Joe Mullen, I'm sure there are more). There are plenty of undrafted players in the NHL that have made a name for themselves, and he's produced at every level, college, AHL, and NHL. And there have been plenty of undersized players in recent years who produce in the playoffs. Arviddson, Johnson, Marty, etc. Like I said, size doesn't matter. If you're a good hockey player, you'll find a way to produce. He's proven to be a good hockey player. Could have been a nagging injury, who knows.

The problem is, Pens fans are expecting this elite, top notch scorer during the playoffs. There's only one puck on the ice. Pens had 4 players top 20 points this playoffs. Not everyone is going to score. He put up 7 points in 22 games with no time on the no. 1PP, on a team with a defense deferred to the glass or lobs up the neutral zone instead of clean breakouts. Hell, Horny who is SO important to the Pens put up 9 points, and had 30 more minutes of PP time (probably on PP1) but yet he gets no flack and is totally worth his cap hit. Riiiiight. Sheary was fine. Sure his production may have gone down, but he contributed just as much as Bonino, Hornqvist, Rust, etc.
- j.boyd919

Agree and disagree. Its a solid theory that the tighter game with more obstruction would hurt a smaller player. And to date his playoff performance has been fairly poor. But I agree there have been successful playoff guys who were small. I don't know. I just know our team is good enough to make the playoffs without him, but we need contributions from everyone to win a cup. I'm concerned that stylistically he will struggle in the playoffs. Guilty until proven innocent in extent....unless he signs at a rate that makes it a good risks reward. At $4 million per year with term its a concern. At over 4 million per year its a potential problem. At 3 million per year its a very good risks/reward.

I'm not saying it will lead the league, but in 2015-2016, his 5v5 points per 60 were also astronomically high when he was playing primarily in bottom six role. His production, at least during the regular season, seems pretty sustainable.
- Victoro311

That is what makes him an incredibly tough read. No-show in playoffs; with some qualitative reasons that might explain that. With Dumolin you know what you are getting.

Agree and disagree. Its a solid theory that the tighter game with more obstruction would hurt a smaller player. And to date his playoff performance has been fairly poor. But I agree there have been successful playoff guys who were small. I don't know. I just know our team is good enough to make the playoffs without him, but we need contributions from everyone to win a cup. I'm concerned that stylistically he will struggle in the playoffs. Guilty until proven innocent in extent....unless he signs at a rate that makes it a good risks reward. At $4 million per year with term its a concern. At over 4 million per year its a potential problem. At 3 million per year its a very good risks/reward.
- sditulli

I wouldn't say his playoff performance has been poor. I'd say it has been average. 10 points in 23 games last year with no PP time playing 13 minutes a night. 7 points in 23 games without seeing time on the PP1.

I love how Hornqvist gets a pass (not necessarily from you per se), but so many Pens fans say Horny brings SO much to the team, and I don't disagree, but when it boils down to it, him and Sheary have similar production, and Horny gets way better looks playing on the PP1. It's comical.

That is what makes him an incredibly tough read. No-show in playoffs; with some qualitative reasons that might explain that. With Dumolin you know what you are getting.
- sditulli

17 points in 43 games of the playoffs isn't a no show. Hornqvist had 22 points in 43 games in the last 2 playoffs, but Sheary is the one who should be traded?

17 points in 43 games of the playoffs isn't a no show. Hornqvist had 22 points in 43 games in the last 2 playoffs, but Sheary is the one who should be traded?
- j.boyd919

To be fair Sheary had a legitimately bad playoffs this past playoffs.

One way or another we need to trade forward salary. I think it should be either Hornqvist or Hagelin and prefer Hornqvist, but Sheary shouldn't be totally out of the question.

To be fair Sheary had a legitimately bad playoffs this past playoffs.

One way or another we need to trade forward salary. I think it should be either Hornqvist or Hagelin and prefer Hornqvist, but Sheary shouldn't be totally out of the question.
- Victoro311

I'd prefer Sheary be moved. I still believe in Hornie's net front work and I believe Hags can still be a big part of our identity. Hags is probably a tough move because of his contract anyway.

To be fair Sheary had a legitimately bad playoffs this past playoffs.

One way or another we need to trade forward salary. I think it should be either Hornqvist or Hagelin and prefer Hornqvist, but Sheary shouldn't be totally out of the question.
- Victoro311

Don't think it was that bad. I mean it wasn't great, but it wasn't awful. I think it was average.

https://www.thescore.com/...lvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Will butcher won't sign with avs and will try free agency. Will butcher is a defensemen in the NCAA and is the hoby baker winner. pittsburgh linked to him. I talked about him many weeks ago and hope pens make a real strong push for him.

PS "the score" is still "the score" though


REPOST cuz sometimes people are tunnel visioned idiots that only see posts including the name of a player they are having a conversation about and ignore other posts.

To be fair Sheary had a legitimately bad playoffs this past playoffs.

One way or another we need to trade forward salary. I think it should be either Hornqvist or Hagelin and prefer Hornqvist, but Sheary shouldn't be totally out of the question.
- Victoro311

How dare him have an injury that had ligerinf effects...

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1339544?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Will butcher won't sign with avs and will try free agency. Will butcher is a defensemen in the NCAA and is the hoby baker winner. pittsburgh linked to him. I talked about him many weeks ago and hope pens make a real strong push for him.

PS "the score" is still "the score" though


REPOST cuz sometimes people are tunnel visioned idiots that only see posts including the name of a player they are having a conversation about and ignore other posts.
- martox

Let's get the Butcher in the Burgh to carve up!

17 points in 43 games of the playoffs isn't a no show. Hornqvist had 22 points in 43 games in the last 2 playoffs, but Sheary is the one who should be traded?
- j.boyd919

Sheary sucked in the playoffs. Period.

17 points in 43 games of the playoffs isn't a no show. Hornqvist had 22 points in 43 games in the last 2 playoffs, but Sheary is the one who should be traded?
- j.boyd919

14 goals for Hornqvist vs 6 for Sheary though. That's almost as many goals as Sheary has points. .5 ppg is fine for a supporting scorer which Hornqvist gets but Sheary hasn't.

Sheary was fine post scratch, but he was brutal before that, even he admitted it. No goals, 3 assists in 15 games and just brutal turnovers that led directly to goals.

For me, Sheary is the best player (or at least most valuable asset since say Hornqvist with one year has significantly less value) I'm willing to trade. If we get a stud player back and he's the piece that they need I do it. Otherwise, I just want to see more of Sheary on a short term deal because his regular season and playoffs were so different.

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1339544?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Will butcher won't sign with avs and will try free agency. Will butcher is a defensemen in the NCAA and is the hoby baker winner. pittsburgh linked to him. I talked about him many weeks ago and hope pens make a real strong push for him.

PS "the score" is still "the score" though
- martox

Linked to him is a stretch at this point, but they should look into him regardless The defenseman pool is terrible for us.

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1339544?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Will butcher won't sign with avs and will try free agency. Will butcher is a defensemen in the NCAA and is the hoby baker winner. pittsburgh linked to him. I talked about him many weeks ago and hope pens make a real strong push for him.

PS "the score" is still "the score" though


REPOST cuz sometimes people are tunnel visioned idiots that only see posts including the name of a player they are having a conversation about and ignore other posts.
- martox

I find this a bit exciting...I hope the Pens snag him. This is what the Pens need in their system. Is he a righty or a lefty?...I know, I know.. i could google it but wheres the fun in that?

14 goals for Hornqvist vs 6 for Sheary though. That's almost as many goals as Sheary has points. .5 ppg is fine for a supporting scorer which Hornqvist gets but Sheary hasn't.

Sheary was fine post scratch, but he was brutal before that, even he admitted it. No goals, 3 assists in 15 games and just brutal turnovers that led directly to goals.

For me, Sheary is the best player (or at least most valuable asset since say Hornqvist with one year has significantly less value) I'm willing to trade. If we get a stud player back and he's the piece that they need I do it. Otherwise, I just want to see more of Sheary on a short term deal because his regular season and playoffs were so different.
- Tojo.

Hornqvist also had 55-60 more minutes on the PP1 than Sheary.

Hornqvist also had 55-60 more minutes on the PP1 than Sheary.
- j.boyd919

Hornqvist is a top PP guy and Sheary isn't. But that's the same as the regular season. What made Sheary so valuable was his production at even strength which dried up in the playoffs. Hornqvist continued to produce in the same manner he did in the regular season. This really wasn't the right guy for you to pick for your analogy.

I'm certainly willing based on his regular season play to give Sheary another chance. Bit saying his playoff performance was fine or that Hornqvist's was the same and he's getting a pass are both wrong.

Hornqvist is a top PP guy and Sheary isn't. But that's the same as the regular season. What made Sheary so valuable was his production at even strength which dried up in the playoffs. Hornqvist continued to produce in the same manner he did in the regular season. This really wasn't the right guy for you to pick for your analogy.

I'm certainly willing based on his regular season play to give Sheary another chance. Bit saying his playoff performance was fine or that Hornqvist's was the same and he's getting a pass are both wrong.
- Tojo.

How? Sheary dropping off produced at the same rate as Hornqvist not dropping off. Hornqvist had 9 points this playoffs. Sheary had 7 points. Seems to be a good comparison to me. Especially since Horny had 30 minutes of PP time with Sid/Geno/Kessel. Being a top PP guy, that's (frank)ing awful production. I'd expect more than 9 measly points from him.

I find this a bit exciting...I hope the Pens snag him. This is what the Pens need in their system. Is he a righty or a lefty?...I know, I know.. i could google it but wheres the fun in that?
- MattStrat

I actually think I read in the link but can't remember!!